2021 Draft

[marcaractac 3,963]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree, but I wouldn't rule out McTavish becoming that top six C or even Edvinsson becoming that top four LD...

I don't doubt McTavish. I'd just prefer that high-end skill from Eklund. Better balance with Larkin's style. He'd also be NHL-ready fall of 22 along with Raymond. 

PS: I'd still take McTavish or Edvinsson over the goalie. It just wouldn't bother me at that point if the goalie was taken. Now If Eklund was on the board? That would sting. 

Edited July 6, 2021 by marcaractac

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I don't doubt McTavish. I'd just prefer that high-end skill from Eklund. Better balance with Larkin's style. He'd also be NHL-ready fall of 22 along with Raymond. 

PS: I'd still take McTavish or Edvinsson over the goalie. It just wouldn't bother me at that point if the goalie was taken. Now If Eklund was on the board? That would sting. 

This is pretty much where I'm at as well. For the first year ever, I wouldn't hate taking a goalie (Wallstedt) in the top 10. There are still a few players I'd prefer over him though.

[F.Michael 4,590]

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Sure if you dont mind waiting till 2028 for a goalie

Your gonna piss ppl off

I'm just looking to nag Neo about it ...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

3 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Sure if you dont mind waiting till 2028 for a goalie

 

go on.........

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 minute ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Let him become a 2C but im not fooling myself into not thinking we wont have 2 #2C’s on the team and still lack that elite #1C on our team . Why hope you get to draft wright bedard? Cause we live on hope? Same way you live on hope we’ll find a goalie in the later rounds even though we havent found s*** in 50 yrs

hope is a powerful drug

The part you continue to ignore is that the management who haven't been able to draft a great goalie in 25 years is no longer in place. This same management who couldn't draft a goalie was also only able to produce two top 4 dmen in his tenure in Kronwall and Hronek. Look at how quickly Yzerman changed that. 

Most teams have success drafting goalies in later rounds and developing them into quality NHL goalies. What Holland has done , or in this case has not done, is irrelevant now. Maybe Wallstedt is the guy. But maybe, just maybe, we have the right people in place now to find success in those later rounds for goalies. 

[LeftWinger 4,966]

18 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

That would be a nice number for him to have as well! Not many goalies with that number. I know Cholowski wears it, but just saying that is a cool number for a goalie. I am tired of the high numbers and of course the regular ones are boring.

[marcaractac 3,963]

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

Lucas Raymond is basically our new Zetterberg. Played C in the past but he plays wing now. He'll probably start at wing on this team and transition into a center much like Zetterberg and Larkin

Berggren - Raymond - Bertuzzi
Vrana - Larkin - Zadina
Fabbri - Veleno - Rasmussen
Smith - Pearson - Erne

You finally saw the light of 3rd line winger Ras. 

2 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

You mean the new management who isn't afraid of 1st round goalies lol?

Yes, the man who drafted a first round goalie when everything else was already in place. Not when he had glaring holes down the middle and on the left D side.

[LeftWinger 4,966]

IF a goalie is what Yzerman covets, and someone takes Wallstedt in the top 5, maybe look for Yzerman to trade up to guarantee he gets Cossa before 22. Let's say we are looking at the #15 pick, you offer up the #22 and what else? Another pick or prospect?

Honestly, I do believe Chicago is the key to getting Cossa though. I think if they lose Subban to Seattle they'll be taking Cossa at 12...there's no way we're getting into the top 10 with a trade unless its the #22 AND a top prospect.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

12 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Go on about what? If your willing to wait till 2028 for our goalie to be ready than by all means go for it 

Why would I have to wait until 2028? 

[LeftWinger 4,966]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

Why would I have to wait until 2028? 

unless you're egging him on, I believe he means that whomever Yzerman drafts that is not names Wallstedt won't be developed and in Detroit until at least 2028.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Na ,its cool you see him as a 1C (which he currently is by default) but hes realistically a good 2C 

If Larkin can continue lining up against the best players in the league every night, and bounce back to 60-70 points, he's a 1C. Far from an elite 1C, but a 1C nonetheless... I think that's a realistic bar for Larkin.

13 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Well ill keep hoping we land a wright/bedard till my dreams are shattered and god willing we’ll get fluke and find a C later on like bruins did with bergeron etc..

If we land Wright next year, the rebuild is officially over. It probably should be by then anyway.

IF Yzerman does take a center in this draft, that just makes one of (Larkin / Veleno / 2021 6th overall) expendable, or move one of them to wing. A great position to be in.

16 minutes ago, Hookersarethefuture said:

Yes i know you trust yzerman . We’ll see what he does , if he takes mactavish we’ll have 2 2C’s though , you dont agree thats cool

Yeah, I strongly disagree. IF Yzerman were to take McTavish, I think Larkin / McTavish / Veleno could potentially be one of the better 3 center combos in the league. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

unless you're egging him on, I believe he means that whomever Yzerman drafts that is not names Wallstedt won't be developed and in Detroit until at least 2028.

So what your implying he's saying is Wallstedt will be ready to go right away but from some arbitrary reason no other goalie drafted next year, for exampe, would be? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So what your implying he's saying is Wallstedt will be ready to go right away but from some arbitrary reason no other goalie drafted next year, for exampe, would be? 

Obviously. If you haven't notice, the guy is really good at predicting the future...

[LeftWinger 4,966]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So what your implying he's saying is Wallstedt will be ready to go right away but from some arbitrary reason no other goalie drafted next year, for exampe, would be? 

I'm not putting words on someone else's keypad, but it just sounds like that is what he is saying. Especially if we wait until 22 or 23 to draft one. I happen to think Cossa would be ready much sooner than 2028 myself. But, much like draft's in the past, we can only hope the pick pans out no matter who and no matter where.

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Obviously. If you haven't notice, the guy is really good at predicting the future...

hookers for all of us !

[LeftWinger 4,966]

A good question is, how does Wallstedt compare to Askarov? Better or no? Askarov went 11th last year. IF Wallstedt is not projected to be as good or better, I just think #6 is too risky. if he is projected to be better or already is, then maybe he goes in the top 10.

re: the article saying he is the best goalie to come out of Sweden. That's fine, but I don't want to best goalie from Sweden, I want the BEST goalie. Just being the best in one region doesn't mean he's going to be the best in the NHL of even in the top 5. Steve is gonna pick who he wants, and he doesn't care if it seems like a reach or surprise at the time. I would not be surprised if he picks Wallstedt, but I would not be surprised if he doesn't, and "reaches" for someone else. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

A good question is, how does Wallstedt compare to Askarov? Better or no? Askarov went 11th last year. IF Wallstedt is not projected to be as good or better, I just think #6 is too risky. if he is projected to be better or already is, then maybe he goes in the top 10.

re: the article saying he is the best goalie to come out of Sweden. That's fine, but I don't want to best goalie from Sweden, I want the BEST goalie. Just being the best in one region doesn't mean he's going to be the best in the NHL of even in the top 5. Steve is gonna pick who he wants, and he doesn't care if it seems like a reach or surprise at the time. I would not be surprised if he picks Wallstedt, but I would not be surprised if he doesn't, and "reaches" for someone else. 

Askarov > Wallstedt

Although I'm no expert. Perhaps you can defer to one of our resident draft gurus. 

[marcaractac 3,963]

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

What's the logic behind the goalie having to be the last piece drafted? Development would dictate it should be one of the first.

And no, that's not what Yzerman did at all either.

2011:Kucherov and Palat
2012: Vasilevskiy
2013: Drouin (Sergachev)
2014: Point and DeAngelo
2015: Cirelli
2016: Howden and the pick from the DeAngelo trade Hajek (both packaged for McDonough and Miller)

A goalie is one of the very first major pieces Yzerman sought out.
 

 

If I were a GM with a top 10 pick, yes I'd ensure the rest of my house is in order before using it on a goalie. Vasey wasn't a top 10 pick. That does not mean 'goalie is the last piece drafted'.

Cleary Yzerman saw Vasey as the BPA at that point in the first round. Wallstedt being the BPA at #6 is a much tougher sell. It's not an unreasonable thought. 

s***, Malcom Subban went just 5 picks later. It's just the way that draft shook out.

Does Yzerman take Vasey in that draft if he had the 6th overall pick? Probably not!

Edited July 6, 2021 by marcaractac

[LeftWinger 4,966]

7 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

What's the logic behind the goalie having to be the last piece drafted? Development would dictate it should be one of the first.

And no, that's not what Yzerman did at all either.

2011:Kucherov and Palat and Johnson
2012: Vasilevskiy and Killorn
2013: Drouin (Sergachev)
2014: Point and Gourde and DeAngelo
2015: Cirelli
2016: Howden and the pick from the DeAngelo trade Hajek (both packaged for McDonough and Miller)
2017: Cernak acquired by trade

A goalie is one of the very first major pieces Yzerman sought out.
 

 

to be fair, he already had an all world D in Hedman a top D on any team in the league, and at the time a #1 Elite C in Stamkos. Sure Seider seems to be a shoe in for a top 2, if not #1 D in the NHL, but, and all due respect to Larkin, we don't have that Top C. Not saying it's available in this draft, we can always hope we win one of the next two lotteries, but I don't see that happening, plus honestly, I'm tired of tanking to get screwed. I want to start looking forward, not at lottery picks. If Yzerman thinks Wall is the guy, I'm on board. I guess it also all depends on who he see's drafting at #22. Maybe we find a C there that is develops into a top 2 C? It all depends on who is on his board and if they fall to #6 or not. Let's say their board is as follows:

Power

Hughes

Beniers

Wallstedt

Edvisson

McTavish

 

...if Wallstedt is the number 1 guy left on his board when the pick comes up, he's taking him. If any of the 3 ahead of him falls to #6, he's taking them. (I am not saying this is his board, just hypothetically.)

[marcaractac 3,963]

Just now, BarkBurgerman said:

Vasi probably goes top5 in a redraft. I could see Yzerman having no fear at taking him #6 that year. Just like he had no fear with Seider.

You said he took Vasi when all his other holes were filled. That's not at all true. He took Vasi very early in his GM career with Tampa and drafted most of his hole fillers after. You're simply wrong there.

A redraft has nothing to do with it. Neither of us would never know what he would do with a 6th pick in that draft. It is what it is.

Yzerman absolutely had his high end core pieces in order at the time with a 1C in Stamkos and a 1D in Hedman. Yes, we have Seider. But you yourself have said Larkin is no 1C. I think Eklund can address that (if available). If you don't that's fine too.

But hey, lets just hope he maintains that same raft pedigree with us when it comes to everything he drafted post-Vasey. 

And once again, I'm not against Wallstedt at #6, assuming he is the best guy on the board at that time. There are just players that, if available at 6, I cannot see being passed on for a goalie at this time. 

[LeftWinger 4,966]

10 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Askarov > Wallstedt

Although I'm no expert. Perhaps you can defer to one of our resident draft gurus. 

I remember all the talk of Yzerman taking Askarov at #4 last draft. Same reason's and same logic. He obviously thought he needed to fill a different need first. Maybe this is the year of the G? I just don't see it at #6, but it all depends on who is left there. Maybe already having two legit D in Seider and Hronek, he doesn't even look at a D and goes with a forward, specifically a Center, which is our glaring hole. BUT, would whichever C that is left at #6 actually BE a shoe in for a #1C, even on our team? Would he be good enough to push Larkin to the 2nd line? Honestly, I think we have enough top 6 wingers to move forward with to avoid drafting a straight up RW or LW this year, but if for some reason Beniers drops to 6? or if they see Eklund playing C? Are any of them a legit #1C prospect? Beniers may be the only one, and I am pretty sure 5 teams are not going to pass on him. So maybe, BPA avail will be Wall? It is a gap in our system. I trust Yzerman, if he takes Wall, then I am ok with it.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

speaking of Seattle, I'm guessing they'll get a pretty good G in the expansion draft, but IF Wallstedt is truly a franchise goalie, it might make sense for Seattle to draft him, no? I mean, IF he is all that he is said to be, why not draft yourself a goalie that may be on your team for 20 years? Doesn't matter who they pick in the expansion draft really, they could draft themselves a the rock that will keep their franchise in contention for years and years once he jumps to the NHL and getts the starting position.  Especially with this draft not really having a stud, franchise D or F. Even though Power seems to be the #1 pick, I wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo went with a C, especially if they trade Eichel. Beniers and Wallstedt going 1 and 2 would really mix things up! As a matter of fact, this mock shows Buffalo doing just that.

https://thehockeywriters.com/2021-nhl-draft-the-hockey-writers-mock-draft/

also, I like this:

...I really hope Yzerman does this instead of the G. If Hughes is off the board, and they aren't that high on Edvinsson, I say get that impact 2 way C.

I worry he's going to be a poor man's Matthew Tkachuk. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Available soon for free in most 3rd world countries along with Montreal Canadiens 2021 Stanley Cup Champion T-shirts

[LeftWinger 4,966]

5 minutes ago, BarkBurgerman said:

If you look at Yzerman's GM career, he does not at all treat the net like a secondary position. He's constantly trying to improve it, even swinging for the fences sometimes to do so. And it took him only 3 seasons before he basically went balls to the wall to fix his net for the foreseeable future.

>2010: Immediately brings in Roloson and Ellis to replace Nittymaki and Smith.
>2011: Swaps out Dan Ellis for Mathieu Garon
>2012: Makes a big trade for Anders Lindback and drafts Vasi with a 1st rounder.
>2013: Makes a trade to bring in Ben Bishop

He essentially spent a 1st, two 2nds, and a 3rd to fix his net in 2012. Ya'll better hope he only wants to spend a single pick on a goalie this year lmao.

He might pick Wall at 6 AND Cossa at 22!