12/2 GDT - Red Wings @ Canadiens (7:00 PM EST)

[AtlantaHotWings 1,027]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I agree with some of this. We have a top five offense in the league, so goals aren't really our problem. Now, if Kane can make our powerplay better and we start putting other teams on their heels earlier in games then I'm all for it.

But the bigger problems as I see it are:

1. Our defense. Holy smokes does our defense suck. Seider and Walman have been a trash first pair this year and the rest of the defense (except Gostisbehere) has been worse. I like a lot of those guys on the 3rd pair, but none of Maatta, Chiarot, Petry, or Holl should play in the top four. We get pinned in our zone A LOT. What happened to the Mo Seider that used to demolish guys with his physical play and toy with the opposition when he had the puck on his stick? He's obviously still a good defenseman but he has not really progressed since his rookie season.

2. Figure out the goalie situation. How does it make sense to carry 3 goalies on your roster and then not play one of them (perhaps the best one) for 17 games? What was the point of that? It would be like going 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and then not playing your 7th defenseman. And then when you finally do play him your realize he's better than your other six defensemen. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Go with Lyon and Husso (I've detailed how I'd use them in a previous post) and get one of Berggren or Mazur or Sodorblom into the lineup full time. This is stupid.

3. Stop. Taking. Stupid. Penalties. These are killing us. Of the teams currently sitting in a playoff spot we're one of the most penalized. That's not gonna bode well when we're consistently playing teams better than Montreal. I don't mind penalties that result from setting a physical tone, or defending a guy, or whatever. But stick penalties, particularly when you're chasing the play, are a killer. This needs fixed.

4. Maybe the biggest thing, we need to learn how to play 60 full minutes. We're horrid to start every game and we're abysmal at the end. The numbers back this up too. We score almost all of our (nearly league best) goals in the 2nd period and then fall apart in the 3rd. We need to play a consistent game. This one I blame on coaching. Last night we changed our forecheck to a more conservative 1-2-2 setup in the 3rd and almost blew the game. Our team is an attacking team and when Lalonde asks them to lay back they struggle.

Well stated Kip ..I give you a 20 sec golf clap 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

36 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

I dont want seider to be fine. I want seider to be great. 

He is 

[LeftWinger 5,017]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I agree with some of this. We have a top five offense in the league, so goals aren't really our problem. Now, if Kane can make our powerplay better and we start putting other teams on their heels earlier in games then I'm all for it.

But the bigger problems as I see it are:

1. Our defense. Holy smokes does our defense suck. Seider and Walman have been a trash first pair this year and the rest of the defense (except Gostisbehere) has been worse. I like a lot of those guys on the 3rd pair, but none of Maatta, Chiarot, Petry, or Holl should play in the top four. We get pinned in our zone A LOT. What happened to the Mo Seider that used to demolish guys with his physical play and toy with the opposition when he had the puck on his stick? He's obviously still a good defenseman but he has not really progressed since his rookie season.

2. Figure out the goalie situation. How does it make sense to carry 3 goalies on your roster and then not play one of them (perhaps the best one) for 17 games? What was the point of that? It would be like going 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and then not playing your 7th defenseman. And then when you finally do play him your realize he's better than your other six defensemen. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Go with Lyon and Husso (I've detailed how I'd use them in a previous post) and get one of Berggren or Mazur or Sodorblom into the lineup full time. This is stupid.

3. Stop. Taking. Stupid. Penalties. These are killing us. Of the teams currently sitting in a playoff spot we're one of the most penalized. That's not gonna bode well when we're consistently playing teams better than Montreal. I don't mind penalties that result from setting a physical tone, or defending a guy, or whatever. But stick penalties, particularly when you're chasing the play, are a killer. This needs fixed.

4. Maybe the biggest thing, we need to learn how to play 60 full minutes. We're horrid to start every game and we're abysmal at the end. The numbers back this up too. We score almost all of our (nearly league best) goals in the 2nd period and then fall apart in the 3rd. We need to play a consistent game. This one I blame on coaching. Last night we changed our forecheck to a more conservative 1-2-2 setup in the 3rd and almost blew the game. Our team is an attacking team and when Lalonde asks them to lay back they struggle.

I'm gonna add coaching. Yes it's better than what was there in the Blashill Era, but in that 3rd period The Wings were on their heels, and not even just a little. When Montreal scored the 3rd goal, after as bad as Detroit was playing, there should've been a timeout called. Not to come up with a play, but to just calm them down, stare at them, and let them understand that they are going to give this game away if they don't calm down. The game was unraveling and low and behold, it wound up tied. They're damn lucky they didn't lose. Why hold on to the timeout? It makes no sense! Call the TO, reset and maybe the 4th goal doesn't happen.

[kipwinger 8,576]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Seider is fine and you guys are insane 

I'm not worried about him or anything. I think he's a very good player. But he's on track to match his rookie point totals while playing worse defensively. His underlying numbers are all worse too. I think it's just as fair to point those things out for Seider as it would be for any other player. The only difference is that he's much more important to the team's success than someone like Rasmussen (who also hasn't taken the step forward that I'd expected of him).

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

40 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm not worried about him or anything. I think he's a very good player. But he's on track to match his rookie point totals while playing worse defensively. His underlying numbers are all worse too. I think it's just as fair to point those things out for Seider as it would be for any other player. The only difference is that he's much more important to the team's success than someone like Rasmussen (who also hasn't taken the step forward that I'd expected of him).

Rasmussen has been a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT this year.  He has made zero impact so far.

[LeftWinger 5,017]

2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Rasmussen has been a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT this year.  He has made zero impact so far.

Ya, it seems he's taken a few steps back. Maybe because of the UFA signings, maybe because he really was never going to be worthy of the 9th pick. He's not even 1st round worthy at the moment. 

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ya, it seems he's taken a few steps back. Maybe because of the UFA signings, maybe because he really was never going to be worthy of the 9th pick. He's not even 1st round worthy at the moment. 

He was making an impact game in game out before his injury.  He is just out there now.  Never does anything.

[Dabura 12,228]

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I agree with some of this. We have a top five offense in the league, so goals aren't really our problem. Now, if Kane can make our powerplay better and we start putting other teams on their heels earlier in games then I'm all for it.

But the bigger problems as I see it are:

1. Our defense. Holy smokes does our defense suck. Seider and Walman have been a trash first pair this year and the rest of the defense (except Gostisbehere) has been worse. I like a lot of those guys on the 3rd pair, but none of Maatta, Chiarot, Petry, or Holl should play in the top four. We get pinned in our zone A LOT. What happened to the Mo Seider that used to demolish guys with his physical play and toy with the opposition when he had the puck on his stick? He's obviously still a good defenseman but he has not really progressed since his rookie season.

2. Figure out the goalie situation. How does it make sense to carry 3 goalies on your roster and then not play one of them (perhaps the best one) for 17 games? What was the point of that? It would be like going 11 forwards and 7 defensemen and then not playing your 7th defenseman. And then when you finally do play him your realize he's better than your other six defensemen. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Go with Lyon and Husso (I've detailed how I'd use them in a previous post) and get one of Berggren or Mazur or Sodorblom into the lineup full time. This is stupid.

3. Stop. Taking. Stupid. Penalties. These are killing us. Of the teams currently sitting in a playoff spot we're one of the most penalized. That's not gonna bode well when we're consistently playing teams better than Montreal. I don't mind penalties that result from setting a physical tone, or defending a guy, or whatever. But stick penalties, particularly when you're chasing the play, are a killer. This needs fixed.

4. Maybe the biggest thing, we need to learn how to play 60 full minutes. We're horrid to start every game and we're abysmal at the end. The numbers back this up too. We score almost all of our (nearly league best) goals in the 2nd period and then fall apart in the 3rd. We need to play a consistent game. This one I blame on coaching. Last night we changed our forecheck to a more conservative 1-2-2 setup in the 3rd and almost blew the game. Our team is an attacking team and when Lalonde asks them to lay back they struggle.

Not much to add to this.

No one (outside of LetsGoWings dot com) wants to hear it, but this team's been playing with fire all season long. Don't get me wrong - I'm pumped the f*** up about us looking like a playoff team, and I do think we've got a pretty good shot at making the dance if things hold. And that's all we can really ask for at this point - being relevant and challenging for a playoff spot.

But we're winning because we're scoring goals. That's pretty much it. If the scoring dries up for an extended period of time, we're boned.

[Troy McClure 347]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I'm gonna add coaching. Yes it's better than what was there in the Blashill Era, but in that 3rd period The Wings were on their heels, and not even just a little. When Montreal scored the 3rd goal, after as bad as Detroit was playing, there should've been a timeout called. Not to come up with a play, but to just calm them down, stare at them, and let them understand that they are going to give this game away if they don't calm down. The game was unraveling and low and behold, it wound up tied. They're damn lucky they didn't lose. Why hold on to the timeout? It makes no sense! Call the TO, reset and maybe the 4th goal doesn't happen.

Coaching is FAR AND AWAY our biggest weakness. I like Derek more than I like Jeff, but I'm not pretending in la la land that this guy is the solution. He's not, and we can do better. Maintaining failing lines for way too long. Going to bat for crap players like Petry. Trying to change Seider's game. The team playing completely bipolar. Turtleing in the 3rd... it's his first gig, but goddamn do I not like the way he plays this team.

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm not worried about him or anything. I think he's a very good player. But he's on track to match his rookie point totals while playing worse defensively. His underlying numbers are all worse too. I think it's just as fair to point those things out for Seider as it would be for any other player. The only difference is that he's much more important to the team's success than someone like Rasmussen (who also hasn't taken the step forward that I'd expected of him).

As I said before... YOU DONT COACH PLAYERS LIKE SEIDER. You let him play and thank god he exists on your roster. I'm starting to hate Derek more than I hate Jeff. At least Jeff was clueless enough to let his star players do their thing.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

15 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

Coaching is FAR AND AWAY our biggest weakness. I like Derek more than I like Jeff, but I'm not pretending in la la land that this guy is the solution. He's not, and we can do better. Maintaining failing lines for way too long. Going to bat for crap players like Petry. Trying to change Seider's game. The team playing completely bipolar. Turtleing in the 3rd... it's his first gig, but goddamn do I not like the way he plays this team.

As I said before... YOU DONT COACH PLAYERS LIKE SEIDER. You let him play and thank god he exists on your roster. I'm starting to hate Derek more than I hate Jeff. At least Jeff was clueless enough to let his star players do their thing.

This might be one of your worst hockey takes ever. The whole thing 

[Troy McClure 347]

14 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

This might be one of your worst hockey takes ever. The whole thing 

yeah i was told the same thing when i declared Seider a god. And then again when I declared Zadina a bug.

Im pretty positive you called me a maniac on both, yet here we are.

Do you have an honest take raddling around in that noggan or do you just do as the romans do? Flatter me, tell me what are our biggest weakness is if it isn't this s*** coaching?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

23 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

yeah i was told the same thing when i declared Seider a god. And then again when I declared Zadina a bug.

Im pretty positive you called me a maniac on both, yet here we are.

Do you have an honest take raddling around in that noggan or do you just do as the romans do? Flatter me, tell me what are our biggest weakness is if it isn't this s*** coaching?

It's goaltending ya gooober by a mile. Followed closely by a weak bottom 3 D core (that's a team building thing - so Y's problem mostly)

These are the performance metrics:

Top 3 team in goals for. Top team in expected goals 5 on 5.

Top 10 PP

Middle of the pack defensively

Bad PK (because of crap goaltending mostly) 

 

[Troy McClure 347]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

It's goaltending ya gooober by a mile. Followed closely by a weak bottom 3 D core (that's a team building thing - so Y's problem mostly)

These are the performance metrics:

Top 3 team in goals for. Top team in expected goals 5 on 5.

Top 10 PP

Middle of the pack defensively

Bad PK (because of crap goaltending mostly) 

 

So your intent is to blame what... christcuck remier? How ******* biased and delusional are you?

Tell me what a bottom 3 D Core is? Cause Im pretty sure it includes bottom pair Ghost bear.

Honestly, you are the worst. At least kip has a vision. You have nothing. You agree with whatever the talking heads say and disgree with anyone who has better insight.  You'te literally the normie of the board. When someome tells you to stand up and clap for McDavid you do it. Clap clap retard,

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

Just now, Troy McClure said:

So your intent is to blame what... christcuck remier? How ******* biased and delusional are you?

Tell me what a bottom 3 D Core is? Cause Im pretty sure it includes bottom pair Ghost bear.

Honestly, you are the worst. At least kip has a vision. You have nothing. You agree with whatever the talking heads say and disgree with anyone who has better insight.  You'te literally the normie of the board. When someome tells you to stand up and clap for McDavid you do it. Clap clap retard,

Good talking. Ya ******* baby

[Troy McClure 347]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Good talking. Ya ******* baby

No answers to either of my questions. Predictable.

In all the years I have been on board you have never forwarded anything intriguing or worthy of discussion.And yet you hang around like you know something. Move on amateur.

[Scott R Lucidi 605]

7 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

No answers to either of my questions. Predictable.

In all the years I have been on board you have never forwarded anything intriguing or worthy of discussion.And yet you hang around like you know something. Move on amateur.

he's right tho, Colin.  Sub in Edvinsson, ASP, Johansson, and Cossa for Chiarot, Petry, Maatta, and Husso.  This team gets better.  We need some fresh bloid.

[Troy McClure 347]

2 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

he's right tho, Colin.  Sub in Edvinsson, ASP, Johansson, and Cossa for Chiarot, Petry, Maatta, and Husso.  This team gets better.  We need some fresh bloid.

Ha you're right scott

Hes just gonna have to learn when hes being retarded. s*** the guy has contributed anything of value in years.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

13 minutes ago, Troy McClure said:

No answers to either of my questions. Predictable.

In all the years I have been on board you have never forwarded anything intriguing or worthy of discussion.And yet you hang around like you know something. Move on amateur.

Yet imagine you having to ask me who the problem goalie is and worst three D are. Must be as embarrassing for you as your coaching take. I can see why your frustrated. That and jo mamma

[LeftWinger 5,017]

13 hours ago, Troy McClure said:

Coaching is FAR AND AWAY our biggest weakness. I like Derek more than I like Jeff, but I'm not pretending in la la land that this guy is the solution. He's not, and we can do better. Maintaining failing lines for way too long. Going to bat for crap players like Petry. Trying to change Seider's game. The team playing completely bipolar. Turtleing in the 3rd... it's his first gig, but goddamn do I not like the way he plays this team.

I just felt that, and this isn't the first 3rd period debacle,a TO was needed to reset everyone. No word's needed to be spoken, except maybe "settle the f*** down!" then walk away from them and let them think about it for the rest of the 30 seconds. I like Lalonde, and his staff for the most part, except I HATE the stupid drop pass on the PP! But I have been and always will a Igor Larionov as coach guy. He may never come to the NHL though. I would just love to see him institute the old Soviet Red Army way of practicing and playing. At least a Red Army influence on playing style. Even if he came here to as an Associate Coach to run the offense and PP. Maybe Tanguay or Boughner will get HC offers one day and positions will open.

[kipwinger 8,576]

I think that coaching, just like playing, is a process that (hopefully) evolves in a positive direction over time. Lalonde has never run an NHL bench before, so it stands to reason that there is going to be a learning curve for him just like there is for everyone else. There are definitely things that I can (and have) pointed out that rest more or less entirely on the coaching staff. But very few of my criticisms of the coaching can outweigh the fact that under Lalonde our offense, defense, penalty kill, and powerplay have all improved dramatically. Quite a bit of that is on the players no doubt, but take a look at how Edmonton started the season if you wanna know what great players with bad coaching looks like.

[Troy McClure 347]

12 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I think that coaching, just like playing, is a process that (hopefully) evolves in a positive direction over time. Lalonde has never run an NHL bench before, so it stands to reason that there is going to be a learning curve for him just like there is for everyone else. There are definitely things that I can (and have) pointed out that rest more or less entirely on the coaching staff. But very few of my criticisms of the coaching can outweigh the fact that under Lalonde our offense, defense, penalty kill, and powerplay have all improved dramatically. Quite a bit of that is on the players no doubt, but take a look at how Edmonton started the season if you wanna know what great players with bad coaching looks like.

Roster improves and now we can afford to look past poor coaching...

His blunders are obvious and noticeable. Don't want me to call them out? Don't be a s***ty coach. Whole situation already reminds me of Zadina. "DoNT bE SO mEaN tO HiM number9, He'S ToO yOUng" I don't care if Zadina or Lalonde are rookies or grizzled vets. Bad hockey is bad hockey. Everyone gets fair treatment.

The roster is improved, but that doesn't mean we have a better coach. If anything he should be under more scrutiny then Blash ever was. He doesn't have the same excuses Jeff had.

I acknowledge that this is his first gig as bench boss, and he will (probably) improve with time. But mistakes are mistakes, and my biggest problem with him right now is him not learning from them. How long was it before he broke up the Chia-Seider pair last year? 35+ games? HE'S DOING IT ALL OVER AGAIN now with Walman and Seider.

And trust me, I HATE to advocate for the Blashill blender, but my gawd guy, shuffle the goddamn lines. TRY Ghostbear-Seider. Try Walman-Petry. Stop going back to the well with no water in it over and over and over.

At the current moment this guy reads to me like Yzerman's version of Blashill. A friend. A developer. A placeholder. A never going to take you to the promise land bro. I think we are winning despite his average coaching abilities. Unless real growth occurs on his end, I forsee a coaching change in a few years.

Doom n gloom, out.

 

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 121]

7 hours ago, Troy McClure said:

Roster improves and now we can afford to look past poor coaching...

His blunders are obvious and noticeable. Don't want me to call them out? Don't be a s***ty coach. Whole situation already reminds me of Zadina. "DoNT bE SO mEaN tO HiM number9, He'S ToO yOUng" I don't care if Zadina or Lalonde are rookies or grizzled vets. Bad hockey is bad hockey. Everyone gets fair treatment.

The roster is improved, but that doesn't mean we have a better coach. If anything he should be under more scrutiny then Blash ever was. He doesn't have the same excuses Jeff had.

I acknowledge that this is his first gig as bench boss, and he will (probably) improve with time. But mistakes are mistakes, and my biggest problem with him right now is him not learning from them. How long was it before he broke up the Chia-Seider pair last year? 35+ games? HE'S DOING IT ALL OVER AGAIN now with Walman and Seider.

And trust me, I HATE to advocate for the Blashill blender, but my gawd guy, shuffle the goddamn lines. TRY Ghostbear-Seider. Try Walman-Petry. Stop going back to the well with no water in it over and over and over.

At the current moment this guy reads to me like Yzerman's version of Blashill. A friend. A developer. A placeholder. A never going to take you to the promise land bro. I think we are winning despite his average coaching abilities. Unless real growth occurs on his end, I forsee a coaching change in a few years.

Doom n gloom, out.

 

If your biggest gripe with Lalonde is keeping Walman and Seider together you dont have much of a case for bad coaching. Seider and Walman have been very good. This is not at all like the Chiarot and Seider pair that stuck together far too long last season. Seider is on pace for 57 points and Walman is on pace for 46 points which would be career seasons for both. They also handle the toughest matchups every night and still bost a +14. This pair works and until Edvinsson comes up and displaces Walman on the top pair theres no reason to change it up.

[Troy McClure 347]

5 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

If your biggest gripe with Lalonde is keeping Walman and Seider together you dont have much of a case for bad coaching. Seider and Walman have been very good. This is not at all like the Chiarot and Seider pair that stuck together far too long last season. Seider is on pace for 57 points and Walman is on pace for 46 points which would be career seasons for both. They also handle the toughest matchups every night and still bost a +14. This pair works and until Edvinsson comes up and displaces Walman on the top pair theres no reason to change it up.

Thats not my only gripe. Read the thread big guy.