Prospect Floor/Ceiling

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

Cossa - 2/1

Augustine - 2/1

Edvinsson - 2nd pair/1st pair

ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair

Johansson - 3rd pair/2nd pair

Buium - 7th/1st pair

Wallinder - 7th/3rd pair

Tuomisto - Europe/3rd pair

Gibson - AHL/3rd pair

An. Johansson - Europe/7th

Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair

Danielson - 3rd C/1st C

Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW

Kasper - 4th C/2nd C

Mazur - 4th RW/3rd RW

Lombardi - AHL/1st C

Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW

Finnie - AHL/3rd C

Soderblom - Europe/4th LW

 

All others do not have NHL ceilings.

 

 

[Motor City Mullets 304]

I have a feeling Augustine will surpass Cossa.

[kipwinger 8,756]

19 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Cossa - 2/1

Augustine - 2/1

Edvinsson - 2nd pair/1st pair

ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair

Johansson - 3rd pair/2nd pair

Buium - 7th/1st pair

Wallinder - 7th/3rd pair

Tuomisto - Europe/3rd pair

Gibson - AHL/3rd pair

An. Johansson - Europe/7th

Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair

Danielson - 3rd C/1st C

Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW

Kasper - 4th C/2nd C

Mazur - 4th RW/3rd RW

Lombardi - AHL/1st C

Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW

Finnie - AHL/3rd C

Soderblom - Europe/4th LW

 

All others do not have NHL ceilings.

 

 

I generally agree with most of these, but I'd quibble with a few. I see 2nd pair upside with Gibson. I think Kasper plays in the top six no matter what, but maybe on the wing. Mazur will also be in the top six. And after watching Danielson's play in the playoffs I think he's on a steep upward trajectory. I think his floor is 2C.

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

11 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I generally agree with most of these, but I'd quibble with a few. I see 2nd pair upside with Gibson. I think Kasper plays in the top six no matter what, but maybe on the wing. Mazur will also be in the top six. And after watching Danielson's play in the playoffs I think he's on a steep upward trajectory. I think his floor is 2C.

I hope youre right about Mazur.  He just strikes me as a Maltby type guy and not a Brown type guy.  Me putting him in the bottom 6 wasnt really a knock on him.  More of a compliment based on how our recent cup teams have been built with gritty bottom 6 guys.  I hope youre right and he develops a poor man's Raymond scoring touch.

[kipwinger 8,756]

10 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

I hope youre right about Mazur.  He just strikes me as a Maltby type guy and not a Brown type guy.  Me putting him in the bottom 6 wasnt really a knock on him.  More of a compliment based on how our recent cup teams have been built with gritty bottom 6 guys.  I hope youre right and he develops a poor man's Raymond scoring touch.

Mazur reminds me a lot of Alex Killorn. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Mazur reminds me a lot of Alex Killorn. 

Yah, thats about right.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 136]

18 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Cossa - 2/1

Augustine - 2/1

Edvinsson - 2nd pair/1st pair

ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair

Johansson - 3rd pair/2nd pair

Buium - 7th/1st pair

Wallinder - 7th/3rd pair

Tuomisto - Europe/3rd pair

Gibson - AHL/3rd pair

An. Johansson - Europe/7th

Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair

Danielson - 3rd C/1st C

Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW

Kasper - 4th C/2nd C

Mazur - 4th RW/3rd RW

Lombardi - AHL/1st C

Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW

Finnie - AHL/3rd C

Soderblom - Europe/4th LW

 

All others do not have NHL ceilings.

 

 

Few changes Id make. >

Johansson - Europe/3rd pair

Wallinder - 3rd pair/2nd pair

Buium - AHL/3rd pair

Kasper - 3C/1W

Mazur - 3W/1W

Soderblom - Europe/2W

Lombardi - AHL/3W

Your way too high on Buium and Lombo no way either are 1st pair/1C and too low on Kasper, Mazur and Soda imo. I give a slight advantage to Wallinder over AJo because of age, size, skating. Not many future 2nd pair dmen havent played a single NHL game at the age of 23 3/4. With Larkin and Danielson I think Kaspers more likely to be a top6 w then stick at c. Mazur to me is a better skating Bertuzzi.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Cossa - 2/1B

Augustine - 2/1A

Edvinsson - 3rd pair/2nd pair

ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair

Johansson - 7th/2nd pair

Buium - 7th/2nd pair

Wallinder - 7th/2nd pair

Tuomisto - Europe/Europe 

Gibson - 7th/2nd pair

An. Johansson - AHL/3rd pair

Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair

Danielson - 3rd C/1st C

Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW

Kasper - 4th C/2nd C

Mazur - 4th RW/1st RW

Lombardi - 3rd/2nd C

Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW

Finnie - AHL/3rd C

Soderblom - Europe/3rd LW

[mackel 763]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:44 PM, Motor City Mullets said:

I have a feeling Augustine will surpass Cossa.

I hope not... Canada needs one decent goalie... it's pretty sad up here.

[Axl Foley 334]

On 6/4/2024 at 12:29 PM, Scott R Lucidi said:

Cossa - 2/1

Augustine - 2/1

Edvinsson - 2nd pair/1st pair

ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair

Johansson - 3rd pair/2nd pair

Buium - 7th/1st pair

Wallinder - 7th/3rd pair

Tuomisto - Europe/3rd pair

Gibson - AHL/3rd pair

An. Johansson - Europe/7th

Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair

Danielson - 3rd C/1st C

Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW

Kasper - 4th C/2nd C

Mazur - 4th RW/3rd RW

Lombardi - AHL/1st C

Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW

Finnie - AHL/3rd C

Soderblom - Europe/4th LW

 

All others do not have NHL ceilings.

 

 

way too optimistic. You may hit on a few, but most of the time, these lists are way overrating players. I would be surprised if half these guys play 100 games in the NHL.

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

2 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

way too optimistic. You may hit on a few, but most of the time, these lists are way overrating players. I would be surprised if half these guys play 100 games in the NHL.

You think my floors are too high for some?  Which ones?  I put some time into this one, so let me know what you think is off.  Im interested.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 136]

3 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

way too optimistic. You may hit on a few, but most of the time, these lists are way overrating players. I would be surprised if half these guys play 100 games in the NHL.

Floors of AHL/Europe/7th are players that will play less then 100 games. He has less then half meeting that threshold that seems fair since most that he has making it are close to guaranteed tops 10 picks. Hes high on a few ceilings but the floors seem fine for the most part.

[Axl Foley 334]

13 minutes ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Floors of AHL/Europe/7th are players that will play less then 100 games. He has less then half meeting that threshold that seems fair since most that he has making it are close to guaranteed tops 10 picks. Hes high on a few ceilings but the floors seem fine for the most part.

 

2 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

You think my floors are too high for some?  Which ones?  I put some time into this one, so let me know what you think is off.  Im interested.

referring to the fact most players never hit their ceiling, and many still surpass their floor. Majority of players fall somewhere in between. If you apply that to this list, there are too many that are still reaching the NHL and too many that are long term NHLers.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 136]

19 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

 

referring to the fact most players never hit their ceiling, and many still surpass their floor. Majority of players fall somewhere in between. If you apply that to this list, there are too many that are still reaching the NHL and too many that are long term NHLers.

Ya thats the whole point of a floor and ceiling players usually fall somewhere in the middle. Whats your point?

Nevermind goalies who out of Edvinsson, ASP, Johansson, Danielson, Berggren, Kasper, Mazur wont be long term NHLers iyo? Id say Edvinsson, Danielson, Kasper and Mazur are as close to sure things as you can find. ASP and Berggren could miss but I think there more likely then not. Johansson is the only one with a lower probability of not making it imo.

[Axl Foley 334]

4 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Ya thats the whole point of a floor and ceiling players usually fall somewhere in the middle. Whats your point?

Nevermind goalies who out of Edvinsson, ASP, Johansson, Danielson, Berggren, Kasper, Mazur wont be long term NHLers iyo? Id say Edvinsson, Danielson, Kasper and Mazur are as close to sure things as you can find. ASP and Berggren could miss but I think there more likely then not. Johansson is the only one with a lower probability of not making it imo.

Exactly. That still makes a lot of them NHLers based on that. Not happening.

ASP and Berggren are both NHLers. ASP most likely 2RD behind Seider and Berggren a younger cheaper replacement for Fabbri.

Edvinsson will be a 2/3 D.

AJo is probably fringe and could easily be another Cholowski.

Not convinced about Mazur. Probably makes the NHL, but middle six AT BEST.

Danielson is still young, I predict 2C.

Kasper is another Copp/Compher. May develop into 2nd liner, but I have had my doubts since he was drafted.

No other skaters on Scott's list makes 100 games in the NHL. Except maybe as fringe guys.

Edited June 7, 2024 by Axl Foley

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

1 hour ago, Axl Foley said:

Exactly. That still makes a lot of them NHLers based on that. Not happening.

ASP and Berggren are both NHLers. ASP most likely 2RD behind Seider and Berggren a younger cheaper replacement for Fabbri.

Edvinsson will be a 2/3 D.

AJo is probably fringe and could easily be another Cholowski.

Not convinced about Mazur. Probably makes the NHL, but middle six AT BEST.

Danielson is still young, I predict 2C.

Kasper is another Copp/Compher. May develop into 2nd liner, but I have had my doubts since he was drafted.

No other skaters on Scott's list makes 100 games in the NHL. Except maybe as fringe guys.

Hard to tell with the defensemen.  They always look so promising at 19, but most of them DO fizzle out hard.  We better start drafting forwards if Berggren, Kasper, Danielson, and Mazur are the only pros we have in our entire farm system.  Our prospect pool is loaded with Goaltending and Defensemen, but it looks pretty sus up front.  Iginla would be a huge shot in the arm.  Gotta move up and snag him.

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 136]

7 hours ago, Axl Foley said:

Exactly. That still makes a lot of them NHLers based on that. Not happening.

ASP and Berggren are both NHLers. ASP most likely 2RD behind Seider and Berggren a younger cheaper replacement for Fabbri.

Edvinsson will be a 2/3 D.

AJo is probably fringe and could easily be another Cholowski.

Not convinced about Mazur. Probably makes the NHL, but middle six AT BEST.

Danielson is still young, I predict 2C.

Kasper is another Copp/Compher. May develop into 2nd liner, but I have had my doubts since he was drafted.

No other skaters on Scott's list makes 100 games in the NHL. Except maybe as fringe guys.

Players usually fall somewhere in the middle but the floor is still the floor aka not making it for most. You literally have the exact same 7 players making it - Edvinsson, ASP, AJo, Danielson, Kasper, Berggren, Mazur except you seem higher on some.

Your right the rest are fringe guys which is what he has listed. What exactly are you arguing? Should the floor be subterranean so the middle would be not making it?

Not convinced about Mazur? So youv never watched him play? This guys a gamer probably most likely out of any prospect to reach his ceiling. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

3 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Players usually fall somewhere in the middle but the floor is still the floor aka not making it for most. You literally have the exact same 7 players making it - Edvinsson, ASP, AJo, Danielson, Kasper, Berggren, Mazur except you seem higher on some.

Your right the rest are fringe guys which is what he has listed. What exactly are you arguing? Should the floor be subterranean so the middle would be not making it?

Not convinced about Mazur? So youv never watched him play? This guys a gamer probably most likely out of any prospect to reach his ceiling. 

Nobody was convinced on Bertuzzi either, and boy he proved everyone wrong. And Mazur plays the same way. 

First year in GR and he's already ahead of the more offensive prospects in Kasper, Lombardi, and Soderblom on the score sheet. And he's nipping at Hirose's heels as well. 

Lowkey our most promising forward in GR. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

3 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Nobody was convinced on Bertuzzi either, and boy he proved everyone wrong. And Mazur plays the same way. 

First year in GR and he's already ahead of the more offensive prospects in Kasper, Lombardi, and Soderblom on the score sheet. And he's nipping at Hirose's heels as well. 

Lowkey our most promising forward in GR. 

Yah, Mazur is a good player.  Not convinced he's going to end up being a Slava Kozlov type guy, but am fully convinced he has Kirk Maltby guy locked up.  This guy is ready for bottom 6 duty on any NHL team starting in October.  For sure, the Red Wings need him there.

[town123 235]

I don't know.   I've seen enough of Mazur to know he's a menace with better wheels than Tuz, and I think his head swivels quite well for a kid in all zones especially on offence.   I think he's a really good playmaker and is top 6 all the way.

 

Sure, start in the bottom six and get the feet wet.

 

Kip has had the most eyes on this kid and welcome his more in-depth appraisal.

Edited June 7, 2024 by town123

[Axl Foley 334]

15 hours ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Players usually fall somewhere in the middle but the floor is still the floor aka not making it for most. You literally have the exact same 7 players making it - Edvinsson, ASP, AJo, Danielson, Kasper, Berggren, Mazur except you seem higher on some.

Your right the rest are fringe guys which is what he has listed. What exactly are you arguing? Should the floor be subterranean so the middle would be not making it?

Not convinced about Mazur? So youv never watched him play? This guys a gamer probably most likely out of any prospect to reach his ceiling. 

He is too optimistic.

[Axl Foley 334]

8 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Yah, Mazur is a good player.  Not convinced he's going to end up being a Slava Kozlov type guy, but am fully convinced he has Kirk Maltby guy locked up.  This guy is ready for bottom 6 duty on any NHL team starting in October.  For sure, the Red Wings need him there.

Exactly my temperance with him. Maltby was a scorer before the NHL, IIRC. But made his living as more of a grinder with a scoring touch in the NHL. It's certainly not a bad player to be, but I think Mazur is probably more that than a top 6 F in the NHL.

12 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Nobody was convinced on Bertuzzi either, and boy he proved everyone wrong. And Mazur plays the same way. 

First year in GR and he's already ahead of the more offensive prospects in Kasper, Lombardi, and Soderblom on the score sheet. And he's nipping at Hirose's heels as well. 

Lowkey our most promising forward in GR. 

I would say Lombardi is my dark horse.

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

45 minutes ago, Axl Foley said:

Exactly my temperance with him. Maltby was a scorer before the NHL, IIRC. But made his living as more of a grinder with a scoring touch in the NHL. It's certainly not a bad player to be, but I think Mazur is probably more that than a top 6 F in the NHL.

I would say Lombardi is my dark horse.

Lombardi has bursts where he does Crosby like things.  But not enough of them yet.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

26 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Lombardi has bursts where he does Crosby like things.  But not enough of them yet.

Next AA. He'll wash out. 

[Scott R Lucidi 675]

1 hour ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Next AA. He'll wash out. 

Good chance he doesnt even get to AA's level.