Everything and then some. I don't complain as long as it's just a sore groin and not his back.
Lashoff is a plug, but a cheap one. He can play solid defense while saving room on the salary cap. Thats an asset in itself I wouldn't want to lose lightly.
Kindl is different story. You're right he had a bad season. But what do you expect Babcock to do ? Call him out via media even before the new season started ? The Kids will eventually get their chances, but only after the first games are played. If Babs would question Kindl openly now there would be something very wrong with either Kindl or Babcock.
Lashoff is fine as a 7th d-man, but nothing more. He really shouldn't be playing as many games as he has in previous seasons. I don't believe Babs needs to call out Kindl. It doesn't seem very logical though to deem Kindl's job as safe given his performance and the fact the Wings have prospects ready to make the jump.
I don't think we really need to see more games from Kindl. He's 27 and had plenty of opportunity already to establish himself in the league. If Ouellet is a better option on October 9th (which appears very likely) then there's no reason not to have Ouellet take Kindl's job. The Wings defense is weak and any chance to upgrade should be taken immediately. Babs makes this bizarre statement that his two worst d-men aren't at risk, which is basically stating we are going to try the same thing on defense again and expect different results.
I just want the best players on the ice. Not eventually either because as we seen last season, our prospects have the ability to generally hold their own. Again, I do believe Sproul and Backman need more time in Grand Rapids, but Ouellet would be fine on the third pairing and so would a healthy Marchenko.
That doesn't make any sense. Lashoff is a plug and Kindl was terrible last season. If one of the four prospects is better, why wouldn't you at least start them on the third pairing? Honestly, Ouellet already looks like he would be an upgrade from either Kindl or Lashoff.
Who are any of the prospects going to knock out of the top-four so early in their careers? You already have Kronwall, E, DeKeyser and possibly Smith plus the four million dollar man too. Let them take Kindl or Lashoff's job and grow into larger roles for the future.
The defense is bad. Why would you want to try the same group as last season? The only potential for development is going to come from Smith. I don't expect all four to make the team now, but one of them should get a shot.
For the second time, I realize that. Which is precisely why I'd need for him to prove it, this year, in training camp. Because it hasn't ever been true before. Even in the past, when the rule was "tie goes to the veteran", the ostensible rule was that in situations NOT TIED, the best player would play. But that wasn't the case either. So for all of posterity, I get it. Babs says the best player will play. Prove it.
Exactly. Nyquist wasn't "tied" with Cleary or Samuelsson or Bertuzzi coming out of training camp last year. Tatar sat out most of the first ten games too. Two of the Wings best players a season ago were victims of veteran priority.
I need to see it to actually believe it too. Jurco will be the real indicator because we all know already he's good enough to be on the team. If they send him down, it's same old Red Wings.
The Quincey/Smith pairing has never worked and Babs just keeps reverting back to it if that is the case again. Smith needs someone that allows him to jump into plays and be more active offensively. He played his best hockey by far with Kronwall as his partner last season. I don't care so much if the Wings leave Kronwall and E together, but at least play Smith with DeKeyser.
Quincey on the third pairing with whichever other mistake is necessary or ideally Marchenko/Ouellet instead.
I'm pretty sure we burned a year of Dekeyser's contract in 2012-13 when we kept him up at the end the year even though the "smart" business decision would have been to send him to GR.
That team could ill-afford to keep DeKeyser down then. Between the injuries and porous defense, the Wings needed DeKeyser to even make the playoffs. Babs said after that they probably don't get in without DeKeyser around. That's a pretty rare example of the Wings not opting to bury a player in Grand Rapids and it would have been a colossal failure to do so.
People scream bloody murder if E or Smith make them because they make the boneheaded mistakes every single game. Sure DK makes them. Kronwall makes them too. But they don't make them every game. I don't sit there and think "what the hell are you doing?" every game like I do with Ericsson and Smith. Sure he has room for improvement, but right now I think without a doubt he's our second best defenseman.
Smith I understand, but Ericsson still? E has been solid defensively and the Wings best penalty killer for years. He has cut down on the turnovers significantly since earlier in his career. DeKeyser has potential and has done well so far, but Ericsson right now is much more valuable to the Wings defense.
Anyone else thinking that if Alfie can't play til say December (or even retires) that it massively increases Jurco's chances of making the team?
One can only hope. I want to see that Tatar/Sheahan/Jurco line reunited. Nothing against Alfie -- I just don't like the lingering injury concerns associated with a 42 year old. I personally am kinda wishing he hangs them up. Especially since we are this close to training camp now and Alfie's back is still an issue.
Hard to really say at this point. A lot probably depends on Alfie's status and what players like Jurco and Mantha show during the pre-season. Cleary isn't going anywhere though for a minimum of ten games. The Red Wings could have just not signed him and they are going to honor their commitment and at least give Cleary a shot, for better or probably worse.
Andersson seems like he has no place going forward. You have to figure one of Kindl or Lashoff might be in jeopardy should Marchenko or Ouellet play their way onto the team.
There is thread after thread of people absolutely bashing Holland and saying he needs to go, but I haven't read a single post saying that Babcock needs to be fired. There are some putting him down, but not like Holland. But to be fair I dont read every post in every thread.
I 100% agree with you that Holland is responsible for the roster, my point wasn't that Babcock deserves blame (I get why they signed Cleary, a promise was made last year, and the Wings kept their word). The point I was trying to make is that people are so quick to jump down Hollands throat in comparison to others because that seems to be the thing to do right now.
In all seriousness, my apologies for circumventing the profanity filter. I have seen people do it in a number of threads and I thought it was allowed.
I think the difference between the two is Babcock has taken Holland's makeshift/transitional/mediocre/insert your preferred term rosters and kept them competitive. Babs certainly has his faults, but how many coaches get last year's version of the Red Wings into the playoffs at all given the circumstances? I have gotten on Babs in the past for his stubbornness and certain personnel decisions, though in reality he has done exceptional work and last season was probably his best coaching job to date.
I don't want to turn this into another bash Holland thread, but I think the track record since 2009 speaks for itself. That's why the general manager has taken more heat than the head coach. Babs can only coach up the players he's given so much.
No, we have Franzen, didn't you pay attention to what he said?
Haha, no I caught it. One goal in 23 games to close a season plus a no-show in the playoffs four years running just doesn't meet my standards for a goal-scoring winger. Maybe in a complimentary sense, but the Wings clearly can't rely on Franzen for consistency.