Cleary has never played 18 minutes this season and has only played over 17 minutes four times. His average ice time is 13:38. 1:29 of that is on the PK. It'd be a dream if people would stop ending every post about the team with some whining about Cleary. At least Robert Lang being Lazy and Sucking™ became a tongue in cheek meme here and got funny.
last game: 17:34 and 3:28 on the pp
previous game: 17:33 and 2:35 on the pp (most pp time of all players)
previous game: 17:53 and 3:14 on the pp
we have been seeing a lot of dan cleary lately. over 17.5 minutes a night of him the last few games. that is was i was referencing. its not about being a meme or being funny. its about being frustrated with how bad our team is and how we keep playing %&*# players like cleary all the time.
i think cleary deserves to be suspended for a few games for sure. and that definitely makes me happy because we are better without him. i hope he gets a few games an the team plays well and babcock and holland finally see he is part of the problem not the solution.
additionally, for all the talk about cleary being a character guy and a great locker room guy and a great veteran presence, i think its fitting he committed the douchiest act a wings player has committed in recent memory.
He played only 10:46 last night, good for #11 amongst forwards. Meanwhile, Cleary ended up #3 amongst forwards in ice time despite having only one hit, zero shots, and zero blocks. Granted, the Stars were on the power play for much of the game, but yikes.
Still, it was 5-1, so whatever.
cleary led the team with 2:35 on the pp
then again he now has 53 minutes of PP time this season with no points to show for it, so i guess its not surprising...
They traded a first round guy for him. A guy who's big, but hasn't progressed in their system. When it comes down to it they traded a first round pick for a ANOTHER pair of boxing gloves. This is a loss for the flames. Even if they were salvaging a poor first round pick, it's still a loss. Especially since Westgarth will not give them anything they don't already have. Not surprisingly, Burke is as dumb as Feaster.
the problem is that they had yet another first round pick bust. trading him for some sort of asset is the quality move. thats not to say nemisz cant develop in another org an at least contribute on an nhl level, but right now he had very little value. heck, we picked mccollum 5 picks later in that draft. think he would get any legitimate value back in a 1 for 1 trade?
No way. I do think sometimes a coach's message can get stale after being in the same place for so long like Babs, but it seems as though his assistants provide a nice buffer.
Babs frustrates me at times with his lines and stubbornness to remove or give lesser roles to certain players. That being said, I still consider him one of the best coaches in hockey.
Most of the blame for the Red Wings lack of success since 2009 falls on Holland. He has really provided Babcock with a bunch of patchwork rosters with no identity.
i disagree. holland goes out an gets a guy like tootoo and then babcock plays him 6 minutes a game. it is not holland that puts dan cleary out there shift after shift even though he brings very little to the table. it is not holland that mixes up lines all the time.
now i'm not saying i think he should be fired. just that trying to displace blame onto holland is not accurate. i do think we are starting to see situations where babcock is not the most effective for us and it may be time to go a different direction in a year or two. its not that babcock is a bad coach, just maybe not the right coach for this team and organization.
Fallacies you committed:
1. Ad hominem/Abusive fallacy
2. Post hoc ergo propter hoc (and you can't even prove the post hoc)
3. Texas sharp-shooter
4. Fallacy of composition
And those are just a few.
On top of your flip-flopping, you consistently argue with poor logic and reasoning. Hate to be the **** that picks apart your arguments like this, but you were begging for it after calling Echolalia "illogical", and I think you only reaffirmed his "highschool" assertion.
The saddest part is I'm a pro-enforcer guy like yourself.
You bring shame to my people.
EDIT: My advice to you is don't make a controversial assertion around here unless you can back it up. Most LGW members know their sh**
I don't think that's a fair comparison at all. Steen has always been known for his offensive talents and has nearly double the amount of points of Clarkson while being the same age.
its not about comparing the two as players. clarkson signed a contract coming off a career year he was unlikely to repeat. he got inflated value meaning the contract has a high probability of hurting the team. the steen contract appears to be the same scenario. we see it all the time with guys having big years before signing a contract. recognizing these scenarios and not overpaying is key to being a good gm and putting together a good team. buy low, sell high, right?
Short-term contract. That might be the most interesting part of this. Could we be returning to normal contracts instead of these 10 and 15 year ones? That could really help the Wings. I think teams are finding that a lot of these long-term contracts are albatrosses most of the time.
with the new cba, max contract is 7 for FA and 8 for re-signing a player, correct?
either way, 3 years is still very short compared to what we normally see.
perhaps its the first sign that gm's are finally going to have to be smart now that the cba closed so many of the loopholes that allowed bad contracts to disappear?
i would love to see this team with more grit. guys that finish checks and play a harder style. thats why i think tootoo deserves to be on this roster.
but unfortunately, all we get to talk about this year is how we need more fighters to protect our stars. i think dabura hit it on the head perfectly. having tough players on your team does NOT prevent cheap shots. it just gives fans some sense of payback to make us feel better. teams that play tough still get injured. teams that play tough still have dirty plays against. it sucks that datsyuk took that elbow from cowen, it really does. but would having mcgrattan on our team have stopped it? doubt it. it was an in the moment, stick out a body part to get a piece of a guy type move. heck, boston is the poster child for tough teams and yet neal did IMO one of the dirtiest things all season by kneeing marchand. neal doesnt care. he wont have to fight anyone. or if he does it will be some hugfest like all the other crappy fights in the nhl these days.
A player with no history of anything more than a bruise on the knee all of the sudden tweaks his knee after a series of games where he's been sub-par at best. And its so happens that it's so bad while there is no indication or MRI or anything they are scratching him and calling up a Mrazek over 24 hours before the game. To me this screams 'he needs a couple days to sort out his head before they can try playing him again' move.
i think its funny how fan opinion of howard has spiraled out of control. if you look at goalies with more than 10 games, howard is 28 out of 45 in save percentage. so even though he is having a bad season, thats still middle of the road. now, with a contract like his, expectations are higher than middle of the road. i get that. but people act as if he has been atrocious or something. gustavsson has been great and i am glad he has gotten a good number of starts. but the best goaltender in our organization is still jimmy howard. and if we want any legitimate playoff aspirations in the next few seasons, it means howard in goal.
let me throw out a little stat here:
the highest save percentage gustavsson has ever had in a season: 90.2
the lowest save percentage howard has ever had in a season: 90.8 (excluding his seasons with 4 or less games played)
gustavsson is playing great right now. but its a hot streak, nothing more. i for one am still behind howard. i feel the majority of his goals are due to poor defense not poor goaltending.
when a team wins against good teams and loses to bad teams, i think thats a sign of a team that plays to the level of its competition. in other words, a team that doesn't go 100% every night because they feel they can slack against lesser competition and get away with it.
what worries me is that it could be the result of organizational philosophy. we all love to boast about how loyal the wings are to players. but is that a bad thing??? does it allow for players to float more and not be as accountable? i think we all have worked in jobs with lazy co-workers and that can be poisonous as others see that and then start questioning why they need to have the appropriate work ethic if others get away with slacking.
Speaking of Cleary and Samuelsson, since they all have about the same PPG (0.16) but the glimmer twins each have more shots on goal in less ice time with a better plus-minus, couldn't it be argued that Weiss is the worst player on that line?
i know you are just joking, but on a more serious note, i have to wonder if franzens slow start was due to weiss? franzen is obviously streaky no matter who he plays with, but onec he got away from weiss he really turned his season around.
lots like to point to weiss not having good linemates, but has there been a game this season where he has made his line better? it seems like every time players get off his line they improve!
He got a few opportunities to play with real linemates early in the season. Since then, he hasn't had much to speak of consistently. He's on the ice for maybe 30 or 40 seconds and then he's yanked. What do you expect? You want him to just jump up and make Cleary and Samuelsson useful? Crosby couldn't make those guys noticeable. And it doesnt matter. When we get healthy, he's going right back to where he was. I'm not happy he's not producing, but people act like he's the worst player in hockey and his career is over. That's just absurd. Anyone who honestly thinks that needs to stop watching sports, let alone hockey.
he is still 7th for forwards in ES TOI per game. and even though he already missed some games, he is still 8th in forwards for PP total TOI. he has been getting plenty of chances. and according to behind the net, his most common linemates this season have been abdelkader and alfredsson. so its not like he has been with cleary and sammy for a majority of his shifts.
but i must go now, because i have to quit watching sports because i am not the right kind of fan...
You're expecting him to be fired up about playing with Cleary and Samuelsson night after night?
he got stuck playing with cleary because he was terrible for 15 games, not because there is a cosmic conspiracy. demoting a player to a lower line with crappy linemates is one of the few things that can be done to try and send a message to a player. i expect him to be fired up about the 25 million dollar contract he signed and i expect him to be fired up to play with great players on a team with a great history. he shouldnt need anymore motivation. but watching him out on the ice it seesm rather apparent he does...