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Yeah, the Toews/Kane contract was ridic but then again it wasn't like Chicago was going to let them walk. My personal top 5 would be: Crosby Stamkos Ovetchkin Tavares Datsyuk (if healthy) In no particular order. And yes Datsyuk. He is still a PPG player and can still do it all when needed and he's still incredible on faceoffs/takeaways. I think Zetterberg is better than Claude Girioux and Toews if healthy. I think this past season was an outlier for him. I might add Malkin into top five and swap out Datsyuk but it was be a toss up between the two seeing as tho neither had the best seasons this past year.

Logic + Facts = Nerdy + Math Freak Nerdy + Math Freak = You lose, you get nothing, good day sir My knock on Ovi is his commitment to defense. It has lapsed at times. Otherwise he's an absolute bull in a china shop/freak of nature generational talent My knock on Toews is he's overly praised for being on a very good team that he happens to captain, so he gets a ton of attention. He's also Canadian, so he gets ton of attention. He's pretty much supplanted Crosby as the NHL's "can't do wrong" "favoritest player" golden boy. Otherwise he's a very hard working player on all ends of the ice. My edge goes easily to Ovi. Had Ovi been Canadian and drafted in Toews spot on the Hawks, and Toews Russian and drafted in Ovi's spot on the Caps... Toews would be talked about like Backstrom and Ovi would be talked about like Super Mario.

Slava Fetisov, former Red Wing defenseman and star of the wildly popular documentary "Red Army", wants Russian law to ban Russian hockey players from coming to the U.S. before their 28th birthday. You'll recall Fetisov's story. He bucked Soviet law preventing him from coming to the U.S. to play hockey, by refusing to play for their national team. In the documentary he explained how he wanted to be free to make his own decisions, make his own money, and determine his own future, without being coerced by federal authorities. And now he's a federal authority. And he's trying to restrict young players from having those very same liberties. Here's a thought Slava. Rather than using a draconian legal system to force people to stay against their will, how's about you work toward reforming said legal system, and equally restrictive and authoritarian economic policies, so that people will WANT to stay in your s***ty country. You are, after all, a Senator. What a dick. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12931779/slava-fetisov-wants-ban-young-russians-going-nhl

There's been a lot of discussion of this on two different threads and it always seems to pop up here and there so I thought I'd create it's own and put this argument to rest via poll and discussion. Who do you think is better in their respective prime Toews or Zetterberg? Who do you think is better currently? Try to eliminate the bias that you probably hate the Blackhawks and love the Red Wings. And pretend like Z and Toews were on different teams. Neither on the Red Wings nor Blackhawks. (Help remove bias)

I think if Tatar is going to be a top level player in this league, this could be the year. Same with Nyquist. I'd like to see Huds repeat this last season. Not so sure he will.

I'm confused by the title of the thread, are we comparing Hudler when he was a Wing to Tatar? Cuz last season Hudler put up like 76 points, which I would say is definitely better than anything Tatar has done in the NHL. But if we're going with just their time as a wing, I feel like Tatar is more involved in the play, more noticeable, and doesn't seem to care that he's the smallest guy on the ice, which is refreshing to see in anyone. As far as points go, they're kinda in the same area, although Tatar's sample size is only two seasons, and he could easily become a more reliable scorer than Hudler was here. So I think Tatar has/will have more of an impact here than Hudler did.

Right now I'd say Tatar is. Eventually Nyquist might be.

I'm a bit mixed on my feeling as of now... In a 7 game playoff series, today, if Hank is healthy I take him. Putting aside the arguments of each ones playoff production the last few years, or career ppg, the series two years back is a pretty good indicator of what you'd get. And Toews was throwing a temper tantrum like he was Sidney Crosby. Didn't he take like three consecutive penalties because of the way z was on him? A healthy Zetterberg in the playoffs is a beast, but theres still no way of knowing how his back will hold up, or whether he can stay upright throughout a full season without draining himself, so you gotta pick Toews. Prime vs prime shouldn't even be a question as of right now though. Z in his prime was on a completely different level than Toews is, on top of being equal to or better in the d zone, his offense was also elite. The only way this becomes a discussion is if Toews maintains his defensive play, scores enough points in the coming years to equal that of a $10,500,000 player, which I don't see happening. Add to that, that he would also have to start spending a lot more time on the penalty kill like z did in his prime. I could see Toews MAYBE scoring at a better rate than last season, as scoring was down league wide, but not enough to make him comparable to how dominant z was offensively.

Frank......its harder to sustain a high average the more games you play, not the other way around. Either way, its no question who the better player is today as Z has definitely declined with age, but I still believe that Toews is the most overrated player in the NHL. Yup.....yet he's still considered the leader and the #1 reason why the Hawks have won 3 cups. That was the moment Seabrook showed me who the true leader of the Hawks is. Keith/Seabrook deserve alot more credit then they get. I'm sick of Toews being talked about like he is the best player in the league.

Kickazz asking the tough questions tonight! lol

Frank.. Toews has only played 15 less playoff games than Z. Their comparison for PPG works perfectly fine because the sample used is large for both. Toews = 117 games. Zetterberg = 132 games. Zetterberg has better playoff numbers than Toews overall. Toews is not a better playoff performer overall. I don't think he is taking it personal, I think he is appauled that you actually think that Toews is a better playoff performer knowing that the Blackhawks have a better team and have played much more games in the past 3 years and you're sort of holding it against Z since you mentioned how he only had 2 and 3 points in the playoffs while Toews had higher numbers. Well obviously because he only played like 2 games last year and only 7 this year while Toews played 19 games last year and 23 this year.... I know you're not into advance stats but this is just pure logic and simple math that we learn in elementary school. You can't honestly think you can make an argument out of Z being inferior when he only played 2 and 7 games. Toews over Zetterberg on the Red Wings roster? The answer is Zetterberg. Z can put up just as many points as Toews in the regular season on a worse team. If Z were on the Blackhawks he would easily break 80 points during the season. Easily. Frank I think you're just falling into the media trap. They glorify Toews. He is basically the face of Canadian hockey next to Crosby. Don't like them persuade you! Facts and numbers don't lie. And no I don't mean advance stats I mean simple addition and subtraction.

Some people just lap up whatever the media tell them to think. It's a problem that extends far beyond national sports.

Since your bringing up Toews selke's, and great two way play. Let's see if the gap is really that close for the defensive argument you are clinging to. Let's compare the resumes to show how Toews all around play doesn't account for Ovi's all around play. Toews: 1 Selke 1 Conn Smythe Oh yea, that 1 selke really shows Toews is soo great defensively. He is absolutely just miles above everyone else, especially Ovi. He has a whopping 1 more Selke after all. Like I said before, are you saying Bergeron is better then Toews? Ovechkin: 2005-06 NHL Calder Memorial Trophy 2007-08 NHL Art Ross Trophy 2007-08 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 2007-08 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy 2007-08 NHL Ted Lindsay Award 2008-09 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 2008-09 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy 2008-09 NHL Ted Lindsay Award 2009-10 NHL Ted Lindsay Award 2012-13 NHL Hart Memorial Trophy 2012-13 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy 2013-14 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy 2014-15 NHL Maurice Richard Trophy Oh yea, let me also mention one of these players is a generational talent, the other is just a very good player.

Exactly. Not a bad deal at all especially when you compare his contract with the horrible contracts by Kane and Toews.

You call it "spam". I call it a resourse.