kipwinger

Not "leaves", get's traded to San Jose along with a 2nd round pick for future considerations.

OMG...an ounce of encouraging news.  

The guy that even Buffalo didn't want? 
He'll be a great partner for Laggeson

The zag.....
https://x.com/DetroitRedWings/status/1940112316709867545
 

"Computer, I want you to simulate an NHL league with little to no roster turnover. Then show me a list of every Swedish UFA that was born in Michigan... oh and computer, disable all roster restrictions on number of goalies" - SY

I love having a genius GM. He zigs when everyone else zags. Like, the whole world seems to think we need to improve our defense and get tougher up front in the top six. Hell, Yzerman said so himself in his end-of-year presser. But wait...SIKE!!!...we don't need no stinking defensemen or power forwards. We need John Gibson and Berggren.
#Legend

Joe Veleno, welcome home

I've seen some media reports that NYI are looking for multiple 1st round picks coming back in a trade for Dobson. I can't really recall the last time any player got that kind of package coming back...maybe Hertl? So I think it's probably overblown. But if that's truly the price then I'd walk away. He's a really good player, but he's a RHD and we've got Seider and ASP long term. Use those same assets to pin down a heavier power forward type and address the LHD holes in the lineup in free agency.
 
 

I absolutely dont think we will actually get Dobson. As long as we are a non-playoff team I see SY biding his time.

Really hoping we dont win the overpay for a slow 50 pt Boeser sweepstakes. 

I just wanted to note... Rudy Guimond has NEVER lost a CHL game. He's 23-0 in wins v losses. FKN GOAT

I'm just trying to say that when your rock steady top of the league goalie is having a crappy series....   the team should not be falling asleep in game 6.   This was the perfect game for them to be perfect in front of him.
 
I see your point for sure and maybe letting so many iffy goals in has left the skaters numb.

I don’t really get the concern actually. I just watched the Jets win the President’s Trophy with a 30+ year old 1C who’s not THAT much better than Larkin (if at all). Kyle Conner is just Lucas Raymond with a few more years of development under his belt. Josh Morressy isn’t any better than Seider. Edvinsson is actually better than any other defender Winnipeg has. Who’s their 2C? Adam Lowrey? Gabe Vilardi? 
 
But Kip, what about the goalie ? We certainly don’t have Hellebyuk but goaltending is actually a strength of our organization going forward. So maybe we don’t get a superstar there but I’m as confident in our goalie pipeline as you could possibly be given that they’re still prospects. So again, not concerned. 
 
Here’s the main difference between us and them. Their best players are 3-5 years older than ours. And that experience counts for a lot. Are rookies Kasper, Edvinsson, Sodorblom and Johansson as good as they’re going to be? Not even close. You think Marco Kasper just had a career year at age 20? Of course not. When he’s 23 he’ll score 30 goals. Same is true to a lesser extent with Seider and Raymond. Lucas will score 90+ points really soon. Seider will score 60+ soon too? Why haven’t they already? Because they’re young and our team sucked. That’s why. 
 
Im not concerned, Im impatient. Im tired of losing and I wish SY would stop shooting us in the foot instead of investing in the team. He shouted out Montreal and St. Louis in his presser and failed to mention that both those teams invested significant assets to get players from outside their organizations. Suzuki, Laine, Buchnevich, Bromberg, Holloway, Newhook, Dach, Anderson, Schenn, Fowler. Those are good to great players that those organizations ponied but assets to acquire. Our GM has done that ONCE (Debrincat). Otherwise all he’s done is bring in junk to bridge the gap. But it’s kinda irrelevant now because all his young talent is finally arriving on the roster and most of them are as good (or better) than advertised.

I don’t really get the concern actually. I just watched the Jets win the President’s Trophy with a 30+ year old 1C who’s not THAT much better than Larkin (if at all). Kyle Conner is just Lucas Raymond with a few more years of development under his belt. Josh Morressy isn’t any better than Seider. Edvinsson is actually better than any other defender Winnipeg has. Who’s their 2C? Adam Lowrey? Gabe Vilardi? 
 
But Kip, what about the goalie ? We certainly don’t have Hellebyuk but goaltending is actually a strength of our organization going forward. So maybe we don’t get a superstar there but I’m as confident in our goalie pipeline as you could possibly be given that they’re still prospects. So again, not concerned. 
 
Here’s the main difference between us and them. Their best players are 3-5 years older than ours. And that experience counts for a lot. Are rookies Kasper, Edvinsson, Sodorblom and Johansson as good as they’re going to be? Not even close. You think Marco Kasper just had a career year at age 20? Of course not. When he’s 23 he’ll score 30 goals. Same is true to a lesser extent with Seider and Raymond. Lucas will score 90+ points really soon. Seider will score 60+ soon too? Why haven’t they already? Because they’re young and our team sucked. That’s why. 
 
Im not concerned, Im impatient. Im tired of losing and I wish SY would stop shooting us in the foot instead of investing in the team. He shouted out Montreal and St. Louis in his presser and failed to mention that both those teams invested significant assets to get players from outside their organizations. Suzuki, Laine, Buchnevich, Bromberg, Holloway, Newhook, Dach, Anderson, Schenn, Fowler. Those are good to great players that those organizations ponied but assets to acquire. Our GM has done that ONCE (Debrincat). Otherwise all he’s done is bring in junk to bridge the gap. But it’s kinda irrelevant now because all his young talent is finally arriving on the roster and most of them are as good (or better) than advertised.

I think Yzerman is still building this "particularly deep" lineup. Add Danielson and ASP and Cossa and Augustine and Mazur and and and...
Since SY has taken over the plan was never to build around Larkin. Larkin (if he's still around) will be the old man on the Cup team. Just like Yzerman was. The actual core of the team started with Seider. I think @Jimmybigrigs69said the exact same thing years ago. The Red Wings didn't win diddly squat when Yzerman was their best player. They started winning when Lidstrom and Fedorov were their best players. Florida won a President's Trophy BEFORE they traded for Tkachuk. Yzerman is building a team of work horses and then he's (hoping) to go get a superstar or two to put them over the top.
And it's not like his track record on this has been bad. His workhorses keep exceeding expectations. He's accomplishing the mission. I think you could argue that it's the periphery moves that are killing the momentum. For example, we drafted TWO absolute units on defense and they're were/are both playing out of their minds at an EXTREMELY early part of their careers. Things couldn't have gone better with Seider and Edvinsson and our defense still blows because we've surrounded them with puds. And it's not like we just couldn't land better talent. We ALREADY HAD IT. Swap Walman, Gostisbehere, and Maatta for Gustafsson, Petry, and Holl and your defense isn't a total nightmare. Keep one of Sprong or Fabbri instead of Motte and maybe our even strength scoring isn't absolutely abysmal. Swap Perron for Tarasenko and your team has a pulse...
...then add the Edvinsson, Kasper, Johansson, Sodorblom that we saw this season and you're looking at a much better team. Maybe not a contender, but a playoff team for sure. And you keep building from there.
Nobody can blame this season on "too many kids, not enough experience". Our pro scouting has absolutely f*cked this team for two seasons in a row. Combined with the fact that Lalonde (and the organization as whole) has a default preference for milktoast puds who "defend well" over dynamic players who bring a number of other elements to the table. They justified Motte's roster spot because of his PK "prowess" and our PK is historically bad. Gustafson was supposed to be a cheaper, more defensively responsible, version of Ghost. In reality he's barely cheaper and no better defensively, but MUCH worse offensively. Tarasenko costs more, and scores less than any of Fabbri, Perron, or Sprong.
There's no problem with Yzerman's plan (build around HIS draft picks). That's actually going really really well. The problem is that no team is built entirely of their own draft picks. And when SY and the gang flesh out the rest of the roster they routinely shoot themselves in the foot.

I think Yzerman is still building this "particularly deep" lineup. Add Danielson and ASP and Cossa and Augustine and Mazur and and and...
Since SY has taken over the plan was never to build around Larkin. Larkin (if he's still around) will be the old man on the Cup team. Just like Yzerman was. The actual core of the team started with Seider. I think @Jimmybigrigs69said the exact same thing years ago. The Red Wings didn't win diddly squat when Yzerman was their best player. They started winning when Lidstrom and Fedorov were their best players. Florida won a President's Trophy BEFORE they traded for Tkachuk. Yzerman is building a team of work horses and then he's (hoping) to go get a superstar or two to put them over the top.
And it's not like his track record on this has been bad. His workhorses keep exceeding expectations. He's accomplishing the mission. I think you could argue that it's the periphery moves that are killing the momentum. For example, we drafted TWO absolute units on defense and they're were/are both playing out of their minds at an EXTREMELY early part of their careers. Things couldn't have gone better with Seider and Edvinsson and our defense still blows because we've surrounded them with puds. And it's not like we just couldn't land better talent. We ALREADY HAD IT. Swap Walman, Gostisbehere, and Maatta for Gustafsson, Petry, and Holl and your defense isn't a total nightmare. Keep one of Sprong or Fabbri instead of Motte and maybe our even strength scoring isn't absolutely abysmal. Swap Perron for Tarasenko and your team has a pulse...
...then add the Edvinsson, Kasper, Johansson, Sodorblom that we saw this season and you're looking at a much better team. Maybe not a contender, but a playoff team for sure. And you keep building from there.
Nobody can blame this season on "too many kids, not enough experience". Our pro scouting has absolutely f*cked this team for two seasons in a row. Combined with the fact that Lalonde (and the organization as whole) has a default preference for milktoast puds who "defend well" over dynamic players who bring a number of other elements to the table. They justified Motte's roster spot because of his PK "prowess" and our PK is historically bad. Gustafson was supposed to be a cheaper, more defensively responsible, version of Ghost. In reality he's barely cheaper and no better defensively, but MUCH worse offensively. Tarasenko costs more, and scores less than any of Fabbri, Perron, or Sprong.
There's no problem with Yzerman's plan (build around HIS draft picks). That's actually going really really well. The problem is that no team is built entirely of their own draft picks. And when SY and the gang flesh out the rest of the roster they routinely shoot themselves in the foot.

I don't agree with your conclusions. Recent history has shown that deep teams, with more top end talent throughout their lineup, are better than teams that have elite top end talent but not as much depth. I can't imagine too many GMs would rather be Edmonton than Florida despite the fact that the Oilers have the better "difference makers". Contrary to what most people think, I don't believe we need those pad the stats guys. We need guys that will allow Seider to go from 45 points to 65 (think Duncan Keith) points and still be a rock defensively. We need the guy who eats some defensive zone starts so Larkin can stay healthy and score 95 points. Same with Raymond. We haven't had those guys because we've've lacked qualtiy depth forever. So our top end guys get keyed on. Depth changes that. If Marco Kasper can eat those "Anthony Cirelli" type minutes, then Larkin gets to play "Brayden Point" type minutes. Same with Raymond and Seider. Those guys stand to gain a lot when they're not eating the best the opposition can throw at them for 20 mins a night.

If our whiny baby captain who dissapears every March actually wants out... IMO this is who's next in line for the C. 
I've said it before, but he has NHL coach written all over him. Articulate, insightful, honest... and yet measured. He's a true student of the game, and is superb with the media. 
He came here and was asked to basically sacrafice all his personal stats to be THE shutdown center. Has he ever complained once about that? No. 
What happened when he went down for the season this year? Team totally collapsed. 
This is a hometown kid, good soldier, and leader in the lockerroom. 
My favorite interview of his will always be between periods after he scored his 100th goal.
Q: Andrew, what does it mean to you to have 100 goals?
A: It doesn't mean s***. Hopefully the next 100 come faster. 
Copp is a fuqqin G

Not to mention he's nowhere near as good as Larkin on a much worse contract. Hard pass. But...
Given that Marco is looking really really good, I'd take Pettersson for something centered around Danielson tho. Larkin, Pettersson, Kasper down the middle would give McClellan a million options next fall. Let Larkin take the tough matchups, which he's used to (and that Pettersson can't handle). Give Pettersson the sheltered offensive minutes, which he's better at than Larkin anyway. And then absolutely cook teams with something like Sodorblom-Kasper-Berggren/Mazur on your third line.
All for the cost of a really good prospect that we'd no longer need.
Edit: Basically look at the trade that sent Sam Reinhart to Florida. A lottery protected 1st and a good but not great prospect (Devon Levi). I'd imagine any trade for Pettersson would look something like that.

Larkin is getting torched on Reddit for saying something that any Red Wings fan with eyes could see for themselves the last two seasons. The TDL is a time of extreme stress and uncertainty for players on bad teams. These guys genuinely have no idea whether they're going to lose friends, or have to uproot their families, or just "fold" on the season because your GM decided you were a "seller" again this year. So to put them through it year after year after year without committing to any particular direction is completely tone deaf.
It drives ME nuts to see a flawed team that neither sells nor adds. I can't imagine how the players feel about it. What even is the point? It's clear going into the deadline that we're not good enough, everyone (including SY) can see it so obviously , and yet he decides to...bring in Craig Smith? Why even bother? Wouldn't the team have been better off just keeping Veleno...a guy they all loved?

That guy's a f*cking disgrace!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vl8yXfnSMw&pp=ygUSZGlzZ3JhY2Ugc2xhcCBzaG90
Edit: Seriously though, leave this kid in the NCAA for his full term and let him develop his game more. Give him ample time to learn to defend properly, but at the same time let him get some of those offensive minutes as he becomes an upper classman on the team. If we can get to the point where he can kill penalties, defense at even strength, and just break the puck out I'd let him be my 6D any day of the week. Basically be Erik Cernak 2.0. Because how on earth do you not like that aggressiveness?

That guy's a f*cking disgrace!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vl8yXfnSMw&pp=ygUSZGlzZ3JhY2Ugc2xhcCBzaG90
Edit: Seriously though, leave this kid in the NCAA for his full term and let him develop his game more. Give him ample time to learn to defend properly, but at the same time let him get some of those offensive minutes as he becomes an upper classman on the team. If we can get to the point where he can kill penalties, defense at even strength, and just break the puck out I'd let him be my 6D any day of the week. Basically be Erik Cernak 2.0. Because how on earth do you not like that aggressiveness?

Idk if you've noticied, but SY has become increasely more chippy and irritable in his EOY media availbities each year... IMO.
And I get it... same fuqqing questions. Same fuqqing answers. 
And last year I was mad he fence sat, but I still had sympathy for him. I could at least rationalize why he did that. We were close...
This year I have no sympathy. And if he cops a fuqqing attitude with the media again then fuq him. 
He doesn't seem to have a pulse on the morale of his team, and he's also quickly losing the narrative with this city. Folks are turning on him in a big way. The tigers and pistons and lions are all excelling in big ways... and its making the wings look like a joke more than ever. Weve waited for the wings and folks are done waiting.
In the 90s classic hit film Toy Story, human character Andy famously says:
"i dont want to play with you anymore"
And that's the current sentiment about the Wings. 
Yzerman - you no longer have enough rope to act like an arrogant genius. We want some humility and some sorrys at this point. Otherwise, the bashing from woodward sports, 97.1, podcasts, boards, is going to drastically increase. And when it finally goes silent it will be bc we stopped tuning in.
Get ur fuqqing crap together and do something. 

The Four Nations tourney was a disaster for teams, despite how obviously successful it was for the league. The NHL asked these guys to play in playoff caliber games in the middle of the season. Guys get absolutely f*cked up in the playoffs every year, specifically because the games are so intense and the league thought it was a good idea to do that IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON! Charlie McAvoy was injured for the rest of the year. Matthew Tkachuk was injured for the remainder of the regular season. Larkin and Raymond experienced obvious drop-offs afterward; maybe due to the intensity of the games, maybe due to injuries sustained, maybe due to the fact that they were asked to play in extremely high profile games right before making a playoff push. In any case, they weren't the same players after the tourney as they were during or before it.
But what killed our season was the back-to-back against Columbus. We were sitting in a Wild Card spot with points in hand against Ottawa. If we'd won those games (or even one of them) we'd have been like six points up with a game in hand. Instead we walked away with nothing AND got absolutely spanked. It was deflating and we never recovered.
I also think the lack of moves at the trade deadline killed us again. I seriously don't think SY pays enough attention to the mental/emotional state of his players. You can't ask guys like Seider and Larkin (or the goalies) to get absolutely mauled all season long and then do nothing to help them down the stretch. It kills them, year after year. Imagine busting your ass every night (and getting the hell beat out of you too!), all while laboring under the hope that maybe your GM will get you some help at the deadline. And then nothing happens...again...year after year. You absolutely CANNOT compete in the modern NHL with the defense we just iced for a whole season. SY says the team HAS to be better defensively and then moves on from Walman, Maatta, and Gostisbehere while icing a roster with Holl, Peter, and Gustafsson. HOW??? Like, HOW was that going to make us better defensively?
There were many critical moments during the season when a variety of Red Wings, from management to the coach to the players, had opportunities to step up and make something happen. Instead we got a HUGE dropoff from our best players after the 4 Nations, back to back losses to Columbus, a humiliating final game against Montreal, Craig Smith at the trade deadline, and Holl/Petry/Motte playing big roles on a historically bad PK.
 

The Four Nations tourney was a disaster for teams, despite how obviously successful it was for the league. The NHL asked these guys to play in playoff caliber games in the middle of the season. Guys get absolutely f*cked up in the playoffs every year, specifically because the games are so intense and the league thought it was a good idea to do that IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SEASON! Charlie McAvoy was injured for the rest of the year. Matthew Tkachuk was injured for the remainder of the regular season. Larkin and Raymond experienced obvious drop-offs afterward; maybe due to the intensity of the games, maybe due to injuries sustained, maybe due to the fact that they were asked to play in extremely high profile games right before making a playoff push. In any case, they weren't the same players after the tourney as they were during or before it.
But what killed our season was the back-to-back against Columbus. We were sitting in a Wild Card spot with points in hand against Ottawa. If we'd won those games (or even one of them) we'd have been like six points up with a game in hand. Instead we walked away with nothing AND got absolutely spanked. It was deflating and we never recovered.
I also think the lack of moves at the trade deadline killed us again. I seriously don't think SY pays enough attention to the mental/emotional state of his players. You can't ask guys like Seider and Larkin (or the goalies) to get absolutely mauled all season long and then do nothing to help them down the stretch. It kills them, year after year. Imagine busting your ass every night (and getting the hell beat out of you too!), all while laboring under the hope that maybe your GM will get you some help at the deadline. And then nothing happens...again...year after year. You absolutely CANNOT compete in the modern NHL with the defense we just iced for a whole season. SY says the team HAS to be better defensively and then moves on from Walman, Maatta, and Gostisbehere while icing a roster with Holl, Peter, and Gustafsson. HOW??? Like, HOW was that going to make us better defensively?
There were many critical moments during the season when a variety of Red Wings, from management to the coach to the players, had opportunities to step up and make something happen. Instead we got a HUGE dropoff from our best players after the 4 Nations, back to back losses to Columbus, a humiliating final game against Montreal, Craig Smith at the trade deadline, and Holl/Petry/Motte playing big roles on a historically bad PK.