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USAFWingedWheel

Who's Andy Delmore,

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My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.

Barnes, as far as Gratton goes, here's our main disagreeing point. For 3rd/4th liners, pretty much the only thing I *really* care about is work ethic. That's #1 for me for any hockey player, really, but especially for guys on a "checking" line. You have to be willing to get your nose dirty and play physical, and you cannot take ANY shifts off. So I pass over a player like Gratton on principle b/c he has a reputation of being lazy and taking games off. I don't want players like that. That's my beef w/ Gratton. That's why I really had no interest in him whatsoever. The other thing was just that a lot of ppl had built Gratton into a "savior" type player, who was going to step in and make all our problems go away. All over the board, ppl were going "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll miss the playoffs" or "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll never win the Cup". And that's ridiculous. Chris Gratton has never performed well in the playoffs. How is he going to help us win a Cup?

Anyway, ultimately, I want guys who are going to give their all to the team. I don't want guys who are big but aren't going to bring their game everyday. Give me somebody who's going to go down and block a shot, or take a cross check in the back and go back into the corner 5 seconds later, or take a huge hit to negate an icing. Those are the players I want on the 3rd and 4th lines. Not Chris Gratton. He's not tough in any way that matters, and he won't address our toughness issues anymore than a combover fixes a lack of hair.

And Dom: please give me a list of those players that were realistically "available". I scanned the list and found about two.

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Hehe, as far as Probert goes, that guy's a badass. I was talking to this guy in Windsor, and has saying how his dad was in a bar once, and Probert was in there, and ended up getting kicked out. Well, he didn't go quietly, lol. He ended up beating the crap out of five cops before all was done and said. At the same time.

Imagine if THAT happened in modern day sports, lmao.

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My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.

Barnes, as far as Gratton goes, here's our main disagreeing point. For 3rd/4th liners, pretty much the only thing I *really* care about is work ethic. That's #1 for me for any hockey player, really, but especially for guys on a "checking" line. You have to be willing to get your nose dirty and play physical, and you cannot take ANY shifts off. So I pass over a player like Gratton on principle b/c he has a reputation of being lazy and taking games off. I don't want players like that. That's my beef w/ Gratton. That's why I really had no interest in him whatsoever. The other thing was just that a lot of ppl had built Gratton into a "savior" type player, who was going to step in and make all our problems go away. All over the board, ppl were going "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll miss the playoffs" or "if we don't sign Chris Gratton, we'll never win the Cup". And that's ridiculous. Chris Gratton has never performed well in the playoffs. How is he going to help us win a Cup?

Anyway, ultimately, I want guys who are going to give their all to the team. I don't want guys who are big but aren't going to bring their game everyday. Give me somebody who's going to go down and block a shot, or take a cross check in the back and go back into the corner 5 seconds later, or take a huge hit to negate an icing. Those are the players I want on the 3rd and 4th lines. Not Chris Gratton. He's not tough in any way that matters, and he won't address our toughness issues anymore than a combover fixes a lack of hair.

And Dom: please give me a list of those players that were realistically "available". I scanned the list and found about two.

http://www2.sportsnet.ca/nhl/free_agent_tracker.html

You should find some nice players on this list...

BTW trading is also option too bad that Kenny can't trade for gritty players...

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My point on Datsyuk and Zetterberg got twisted a bit. I don't want them going out there and throwing their weight around constantly, but I do want them to be able to take abuse and fight through it instead of just floating around. They are never going to be able to score in the playoffs if they can't body through tight checking defense. And loading up the roster w/ goons isn't going to change that fact. That was more my point.

I totally agree, and wish they would also. Mike Babcock should help with that. But I still dunno how effective they will be. Goons won't change that, especially not in the playoffs, but I still wouldn't mind one or two. A fast grinding style is what most of the playoffs are, and I would love our team to compete like that. However, most of our grinders and physical guys are too old to make a difference, and our younger guys shy away from physical contact. However, goons will make the regular season easier for us, IMO.

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Hehe, as far as Probert goes, that guy's a badass. I was talking to this guy in Windsor, and has saying how his dad was in a bar once, and Probert was in there, and ended up getting kicked out. Well, he didn't go quietly, lol. He ended up beating the crap out of five cops before all was done and said. At the same time.

Imagine if THAT happened in modern day sports, lmao.

How does he keep getting aquitted of assault charges against officers? They had to taser him once in Florida I believe, and fights 5 cops outside a bar. It doesn't get any simpler than that! Must have one helluva lawyer.

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It was in Canada. How does Randy Moss run over a police officer w/ a car and get away w/ it? Athletes can do these things.

And I'm totally with you on the fast, grinding style. But goons will hurt that style, not help it.

I'm partially convinced Lewis is half the problem on the style. Yzerman, Shanny, Drapes, Maltby, etc had no problems w/ cycling the puck down low when Bowman was in charge. It was when Lewis took over that all the sudden we started sniping all over the place and playing perimiter hockey. Babcock should help us get back to a faster style. This slow, methodical crap I've had a stomachful of. But in order to play a fast, physical style, you need to have players who are going to work and skate hard, not guys who are going to take shifts off and back away from contact, and not guys who don't know how to skate. I want strong skaters and aggressive personalities before straight size and WAY before fighting ability.

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It was in Canada. How does Randy Moss run over a police officer w/ a car and get away w/ it? Athletes can do these things.

He also fought 4 or 5 cops in Florida when he was tasered. I know of at least 2 times he's been caught brawling with the po-po and gotten in no trouble. Hell, look at OJ, he killed 2 people!!

And I'm totally with you on the fast, grinding style. But goons will hurt that style, not help it.

I'm partially convinced Lewis is half the problem on the style. Yzerman, Shanny, Drapes, Maltby, etc had no problems w/ cycling the puck down low when Bowman was in charge. It was when Lewis took over that all the sudden we started sniping all over the place and playing perimiter hockey. Babcock should help us get back to a faster style. This slow, methodical crap I've had a stomachful of. But in order to play a fast, physical style, you need to have players who are going to work and skate hard, not guys who are going to take shifts off and back away from contact, and not guys who don't know how to skate. I want strong skaters and aggressive personalities before straight size and WAY before fighting ability.

You do make a very good point, but we no longer have the option to pick up anybody who is both skilled and tough which is why I'm all about an enforcer. Someone to take the heat off the top guys, which is pretty much or only way to go, unless we start trading.

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  Yet again, saying they are cutting down on obstruction and doing it are 2 different things. They've said that in the past before too. None the less, we cannot afford talented players who are tough. Everybody from here on out has a serious problem is some aspect of their game. I would love to have talented tough guys, but we have to be realistic. Brown has good leadership qualities too, which is never a bad thing. I'm not saying Brown has all the answers, but he's an option and a good one at that.

If he has such great leadership qualities, why did the Wild name him Captain and then trade him. You don't just trade your C unless things aren't working out. It wasn't because he was going to be asking for too much money! If you are with Minnesota and things aren't working out, then you have some serious concerens.

When was Delmore named captain of anything? Your argument makes no sense. If you want to know the reason why Brown was expendable, it's because they already had Alex Henry and Willie Mitchell back there. If we had ONE mean D-Man with size, I'd be somewhat happy, we have none.

just wonderin Barnes why you dont think Fischer has size and toughness? Ok after his ACL recovery he was not as effective as all hoped nor as physical. but have u ever recovered from a torn ACL? Im amazed he playewd that well. forget how he played in the last year of the nhl and look he played in the lockout. the most recent hockey for him. he dominated in the two world championships and was on the top line for the chzechs for the one championship....when they won gold....and he physially dominated huge. im not attacking your opinion or anything just lookin for your input. i do think we need one more physical D-man but we do have one in fischer.

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I think Fischer will do all right.

I had surgery on a torn ACL and MCL roughly 17 months ago, and my knee still hurts like crazy sometimes. I can exercise and it functions normally, but I feel it a lot more than my other knee that's 100% healthy. If I have an intense exercise, I usually come out with a limp for a while.

They take a while to recover from, and I'm no athlete. I'd expect Fischer to be fully or close to fully recovered by now since he probably exercises every day.

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Anyone who thinks that the Wings don't need to add some toughness (especially some form of enforcer) will probably be the same people complaining at the end of the season when 2-3 of our key players are on the injured list as a result of some cheap shot that could have been prevented.

The new NHL will still have fighting. Cheap shots will be responded to, unfortunately though we have nobody to respond to them currently on the Wings. Without that presence, physical teams will go all out against the Wings, punishing our soft forwards and defensemen. Sure, we may out-score them (in the regular season), but they have accomplished their task, to wear us down so that we fail again in the playoffs.

As a team, we need more toughness. One enforcer isn't going to completely tip the scales, but it would be a good start. Our only players with any sort of ability to keep the game in check are Shanny, Rivers, Chelios, & Fischer. Shanny can't hang with the big boys, and is needed more on the ice than in the box (not to mention the age factor). Rivers also can't hang with the big boys and won't play enough to make a huge difference. Chelios will play his nasty brand of hockey, but isn't a fighter and age is also a huge factor with him. Fischer doesn't have enough of a mean streak in him and needs to worry about developing his game more than playing any sort of enforcer role.

Without adding toughness, this team has only one shot of success in the playoffs. They need to draw teams as soft as them. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of those teams out there...

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Anyone who thinks that the Wings don't need to add some toughness (especially some form of enforcer) will probably be the same people complaining at the end of the season when 2-3 of our key players are on the injured list as a result of some cheap shot that could have been prevented.

The new NHL will still have fighting.  Cheap shots will be responded to, unfortunately though we have nobody to respond to them currently on the Wings.  Without that presence, physical teams will go all out against the Wings, punishing our soft forwards and defensemen.  Sure, we may out-score them (in the regular season), but they have accomplished their task, to wear us down so that we fail again in the playoffs.

As a team, we need more toughness.  One enforcer isn't going to completely tip the scales, but it would be a good start.  Our only players with any sort of ability to keep the game in check are Shanny, Rivers, Chelios, & Fischer.  Shanny can't hang with the big boys, and is needed more on the ice than in the box (not to mention the age factor).  Rivers also can't hang with the big boys and won't play enough to make a huge difference.  Chelios will play his nasty brand of hockey, but isn't a fighter and age is also a huge factor with him.  Fischer doesn't have enough of a mean streak in him and needs to worry about developing his game more than playing any sort of enforcer role.

Without adding toughness, this team has only one shot of success in the playoffs.  They need to draw teams as soft as them.  Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a lot of those teams out there...

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AND I REALLY LIKE YOUR AVATAR!!!

Edited by Dominator2005

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