Is Babcock a genius, delusional or stubborn?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Why do we keep hearing him say stuff like this...

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...427/1053/SPORTS

Babcock disagreed with the sentiment that the Wings were overcome by physical play.

"We don't respond to physical play, we just play," he said. "The bottom line is we've got to score on our opportunities and the physical play goes away. The other team gets way ahead, either way; they can do whatever they want. In my two years in Detroit, we haven't had the people to do that kind of stuff, we just play. I guess the way I look at it, it doesn't seem to deter us too much."

WHAT? Is he watching the same game, or listening to the quotes from his own damn players? He said the same crap when asked about the headhunting the Wings experienced earlier in the season.

Here's what I read when I look at that quote:

Sargent Babcock disagreed with the sentiment that his forces were overcome by the German heavy mortar fire.

"We don't respond to mortars, we just advance," he said. "The bottom line is we've got to walk toward our objective and the mortar fire goes away. The other force gets way ahead, either way; they can do whatever they want. In my two years in the forces, we haven't had the weapons to do that kind of stuff, we just march forward. I guess the way I look at it, it doesn't seem to deter us too much."

When questioned, Private MacDonald responded "Oh yeah, we don't need mortars on our side, I mean once you learn to pretend there isn't shrapnel bursting around you the horrible bodily trauma goes away." "I mean what else can we do- buy weapons for our side?", MacDonald laughed.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Drake_Marcus

[BlueMonk 102]

In fairness to Babcock, what else can he say? What else can he do? This is the team he's got. I'm sure he voices his opinion about the roster to his GM, but if these are the players he's been given, then he has to make the most of it. As he says, they don't have the horses to play a physical game, so they have to avoid it and ignore it. He doesn't have to like it, that's just the reality of the situation he's in.

[Earthhuman 8]

Pretty funny!

But the underlying message is just depressing. I think he's 2 parts delusional, 1 part genius, and 1 part stubborn.

Delusional- consistently reinforcing that we have a chance in a playoff series.

Genius- Hasek, $750,000.

Stubborn- 38 years old... (see Thomas, 2002 Detroit Redwings).

Edit: Oops, I thought that quote was by Holland... Scratch everything.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Earthhuman

[Drake_Marcus 890]

In fairness to Babcock, what else can he say? What else can he do? This is the team he's got. I'm sure he voices his opinion about the roster to his GM, but if these are the players he's been given, then he has to make the most of it. As he says, they don't have the horses to play a physical game, so they have to avoid it and ignore it. He doesn't have to like it, that's just the reality of the situation he's in.

Well I'd be fine if he'd actually be upfront about it, but insisting there's no problem is asinine. And I think he likely has more say in what players he gets then anyone else outside of the GM staff, no?

[Rice 42]

BlueMonk said it all. What is Babcock supposed to say?

"I just wish we had more physical players, *cough* HOLLAND *cough*."

He's going to seem happy with what he's got no matter what. I don't care about what he says to the media as much as what he says behind closed doors. Interviews mean nothing.

Edited February 13, 2007 by ARice89

[BlakChamber 8]

In fairness to Babcock, what else can he say? What else can he do? This is the team he's got. I'm sure he voices his opinion about the roster to his GM, but if these are the players he's been given, then he has to make the most of it. As he says, they don't have the horses to play a physical game, so they have to avoid it and ignore it. He doesn't have to like it, that's just the reality of the situation he's in.

Bingo.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

You can't always take what you read and expect it to be 100% truth. Babcock is saying what he needs to say as a coach. He is not going to publicly rip apart his whole team and start calling them a bunch of *******. What he will do is give the media the most positive statements he can and lean toward perseverance and motivation for the next game.

What, in fact he is saying to his "troops" is probably quite different than what he says in the media. I would have to imagine he is telling the players after last night's game that they need to tighten up, play stronger in the corners, and stop taking crap from the opposing tough guys. That is all he can say really, it's up to the players who can push some people around to start doing so. Guys like Maltby, Franzen, Lilja, and Chelios are responsbile right now for that, and they are not being anywhere near as tough as they need to be.

Babcock is just being presentable to the media. He is portraying a, "we lost, we didn't play as well as we were supposed to, and we partly beat ourselves out there." And you know what? With the 3rd best record in the league, I think he has a responsibility to be smart with the media and not blast the team or players too much publicly. It's just not professional.

[BlueMonk 102]

Well I'd be fine if he'd actually be upfront about it, but insisting there's no problem is asinine. And I think he likely has more say in what players he gets then anyone else outside of the GM staff, no?

The problem is, what's he going to say, that his GM needs to get with the program and fill this gaping hole in the roster? He's not going to handle that in the press, he's going to address it behind closed doors.

I'd love to know what his input is, but I have no idea. The team he iced in Anaheim was pretty tough, and he seemed to even embrace the idea of having an enforcer. Honestly, everyone in the Wings organization, including the players and their "consultant," Scotty Bowman, seems to think they need to get tougher. Yet nothing changes. Maybe Kenny Holland has some incriminating photos of Mike Ilitch or something.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Hmmm... so my frustrations should really be aimed at Holland? Ok.

[Zeke 5]

BlueMonk said it all. What is Babcock supposed to say?

"I just wish we had more physical players, *cough* HOLLAND *cough*."

He's going to seem happy with what he's got no matter what. I don't care about what he says to the media as much as what he says behind closed doors. Interviews mean nothing.

Upper management provides the staffing (Holland) and middle management has to make it work (Babcock).No one is that delusional about the lack of team toughness,but his boss picked this team.

What's he supposed to say,we need about 3 or 4 tough,hardnosed Canadians (a la Don Cherry mode) to survive the playoffs?

[SwedeLundin77 460]

The problem is, what's he going to say, that his GM needs to get with the program and fill this gaping hole in the roster? He's not going to handle that in the press, he's going to address it behind closed doors.

I'd love to know what his input is, but I have no idea. The team he iced in Anaheim was pretty tough, and he seemed to even embrace the idea of having an enforcer. Honestly, everyone in the Wings organization, including the players and their "consultant," Scotty Bowman, seems to think they need to get tougher. Yet nothing changes. Maybe Kenny Holland has some incriminating photos of Mike Ilitch or something.

Nothing changes as fast as you or I would like it to. But things will change with time. It's not as easy as people seem to think to just add an enforcer and then we can all skip-a-loo in joy to our amazingly tough team... We have semi-physical guys who can hold us over, the problem is, these guys are not doing what they should be doing. Holland has stated since the 1/4 point of this season that he wants us to get tougher and that he will address it with a tough scoring winger at the deadline. That position has not changed and their are several options available that he can look into. The word is, is that him, Devellano, Bowman, Yzerman, and company have scouted every team that should be dealing and have pinpointed all the players they are interested in - they WILL make a move, but it has to be the right move otherwise you mess up your team, we're not looking for a band-aid - we're looking for a long-term fix if at all possible.

[edicius 3,269]

Baghdad Bob escaped from Iraq and stole Mike Babcock's identity.

That explains everything.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Yeah..Babs can't say or do anything about it. It's all bout Mr. Holland.

[Guest Crymson]

Babcock isn't the sort to publicly call out his players. In any case, what would that accomplish? There are only two players on this team capable of really (not Maltby-ish) doing damage physically: Andreas Lilja and Danny Markov. Markov will hit. Lilja will laze around and turtle.

I am unclear as to why Norton is not playing in Sammy's spot (with Hulder and Filpulla). Langfeld takes just as many penalties as does Norton, and is wholly mediocre. However, that's not Babcock's call, as far as I know. If it is, I'm sure he has a good reason why it hasn't been done. Get real, folks-- Babcock knows more about coaching than any of us. He's damn good at his job for the most part, too. As some have pointed out, he has to work with the resources he has; Holland and Co. are responsible for providing him with a viable set.

Before any of you bring up Bowman, and his call-out episode with Fedorov and Shanahan in '02, consider this: Bowman called out Fedorov and Shanahan for not scoring enough/not playing hard enough. Those two could both score more and play harder; Bowman was accusing them of slacking. They were two of the stars of the team. Meanwhile, what's Babcock to do? Accost a team of small, soft-hitting players for not hitting harder? It doesn't work that way.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Crymson

[zata40fan 0]

If you stop to think about what Babcock's saying, it doesn't sound that crazy. See the Calgary game. The Flames are generally one of the most physical teams in the League, but the Wings skated circles around them. They capitalized on their chances and the Flames couldn't play their game as effectively. Last night in Philly, the Wings were inept offensively and the Flyers were able to manhandle them at will.

Babcock may be taking a bit of a shot at Holland there with that "two years" comment, but I think he's mostly right as far as "just playing" goes. When the Wings are playing their "A" or even "B" game, they're tough to beat, no matter how physical the opponent tries to be. The problem is, the Wings don't always show up to play and then they end up getting owned like they did last night, especially when they're tired and on the road.

This team takes physical abuse better than any recent Detroit squad. What they need to work on is their stamina, so their back-to-back games aren't so much polar opposites. If they can't get any better at consistency, they'll have enormous troubles in the playoffs, obviously.

No single deadline acquisition is going to make this team Calgary-tough, as some have pointed out elsewhere. They are still going to rely on skill and puck possession and try to make it work in the post-season. If some gritty team is what you want, say goodbye to the current Red Wings roster. It's a pipe dream to think that one or even two "tough" players "willing to grind it out along the boards" will change the team drastically.

I'm personally pretty satisfied with the team and think that with a scoring winger, they have potential to do well when it matters, as long as they can get over this crap of sucking it up the second night of a back-to-back.

Edited February 13, 2007 by zata40fan

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Does anybody ever stop to think what it might to do to some of the Wings confidence and the image of the organization in general if he went around saying "Well, we were pansies out there tonight, got our asses smoked several times along the boards and, in general, looked like a bunch of figure skaters. We really have no one on this team who will fight or muck it up when it counts."??

The whole league knows the Red Wings are a soft team and undoubtedly, given the cap space and his willingness to trade draft picks, well pick up someone of physical significance at the trade deadline.

[Guest Crymson]

Does anybody ever stop to think what it might to do to some of the Wings confidence and the image of the organization in general if he went around saying "Well, we were pansies out there tonight, got our asses smoked several times along the boards and, in general, looked like a bunch of figure skaters. We really have no one on this team who will fight or muck it up when it counts."??

The whole league knows the Red Wings are a soft team and undoubtedly, given the cap space and his willingness to trade draft picks, well pick up someone of physical significance at the trade deadline.

Agreed, and agreed--Insulting a team for not doing something they are wholly untooled for would do nothing but generate the tension that is so rumored between he and the team; and Holland and Co are neither stupid nor blind nor decadent. They are paid to do their jobs, and they will do them well or be fired; they are currently employed because they do the jobs well.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Crymson

[Drake_Marcus 890]

There's a huge difference between honesty and bashing. All I'm asking for is a little honesty with the fans. He could have said something along the lines of "yadda yadda yadda, played crappy, yadda... game tonight highlights a problem we're currently addressing and that is a lack of overall toughness.. yadda yadda in the mean time we play with the highly skilled but not as tough as we'd like roster we currently have... yadda"

Did I ask him to berate his team on record? No. Have I said he's a bad coach? Of course not. But I do find his press clips on these subjects to be intellectually insulting. And as a Red Wings fan I find that concerning.

But I'm hardly throwing a brick through his window with a strongly worded letter attached here folks. I'm posting a thread in a fan forum.

AND to be fair- if you give a coach credit for making a team work well with the players he's got then why can't you hold him responsible for his team's deficites? Ultimately the buck stops with him and if his team plays poorly people laud the players, if poor play is the order of the day it's his ass on the public gallows. That's the nature of sports in general, and not just in Montreal. Fans expect accountability from the management when they see their beloved team die on the screen in front of them.

For me that accountability is simply some reasonably candid explanations from the management. I'm not asking for his head on a pike!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

What can Babcok do , If holland wont sign toughness , were gonna be a team of ******* , nothing Babs can do

[wingslogo19 281]

In fairness to Babcock, what else can he say? What else can he do? This is the team he's got. I'm sure he voices his opinion about the roster to his GM, but if these are the players he's been given, then he has to make the most of it. As he says, they don't have the horses to play a physical game, so they have to avoid it and ignore it. He doesn't have to like it, that's just the reality of the situation he's in.

You've nailed that right on the dot

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Babcock can only play with the cards he's been dealt with, and most of them are not as physical as others. Sometimes it doesn't play into effect, sometimes it does like last night when you aren't able to net a few early goals. If it's low-scoring going late into the game, that usually favors the more physical teams IMO, which puts Detroit behind the 8-ball more often than not. That's not all Babcock's problem, he can only do so much in calling people or or lighting a fire up their rear to play harder. Upper management has got to get the right player personnel as well.

[HenrikRules40 14]

Babcock can only play with the cards he's been dealt with, and most of them are not as physical as others. Sometimes it doesn't play into effect, sometimes it does like last night when you aren't able to net a few early goals. If it's low-scoring going late into the game, that usually favors the more physical teams IMO, which puts Detroit behind the 8-ball more often than not. That's not all Babcock's problem, he can only do so much in calling people or or lighting a fire up their rear to play harder. Upper management has got to get the right player personnel as well.

YOUR SIGNATURE!

[ultrapail 0]

during one of the Red Wings weeklys recently, Babcock said he passed along his wish list to the front office. Now I personally think we need more than one guy to help this team to the SCF, but if Babcock doesn't get at least a little of what he wants, what do you think happens?

[BlakChamber 8]

There's a huge difference between honesty and bashing. All I'm asking for is a little honesty with the fans. He could have said something along the lines of "yadda yadda yadda, played crappy, yadda... game tonight highlights a problem we're currently addressing and that is a lack of overall toughness.. yadda yadda in the mean time we play with the highly skilled but not as tough as we'd like roster we currently have... yadda"

What exactly would that accomplish, other than telling his team he doesn't think they're tough enough and telling the 5 remaining people who did't know, the way to beat the Wings is to push them around.

[FinWing 26]

Are you listening, Kenny?

I'm sure he understands the situation but he will not put the Wings' long-term future at risk just to get such a player(s) for a couple of seemingly better playoff runs.