Update on Holland's search for forwards.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'd prefer Guerin over Tkachuk just because Guerin is alot faster and seems like he has a better attitude and more leadership than Keith Tkachuk. However, why hasn't anybody commented on Gary Roberts?? Why hasn't his name come up on the boards more often? In my opinion, he's EXACTLY what we're looking for right now. A playoff rental, which could turn into another year if he pans out with our team and likes it here. He's a veteran who plays with a big mean streak (anyone even watch his days in Toronto??) I can't remember how many times I saw him play great while bitten with a big injury, and coming up huge in important games with huge goals/hits/fights. He's character all the way, and can also score for a 40 year old. Somebody please tell me why we aren't looking deeper at him?? Him and Guerin and we have a great run to look forward to in my honest opinion.

I think nobody's brought him up because hes never been brought up in trade rumors involving the Wings. He has a no trade clause, and is supposedly only wanting to waive it to Toronto and Ottawa AND on top of that, he wants a contract extension for some security. I think thats whats turning the Wings off. They dont want to be obligated to work him into the lineup next year.

The Islanders are still in the playoff hunt. So tell me why they would get rid of their leading scorer in Jason Blake?

The contract talks are apparently kind of ugly right now, with Blake saying the Islanders better sign him soon, or he wont re-sign with them period. Hes having a career year and theres speculation that the Islanders might trade him in order not to lose him. I dont think its likely, but theres media speculation nonetheless so we might as well speculate with them. Thats the part thats most fun anyways, right?

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

You guys that doubt Blake will be dealt cannot deny that there has been much speculation about him...

[Turretin 0]

Is there a reason why Modin isn't playing tonight?

[Henkka 0]

I think Guerin is going to be too expensive. Bertuzzi + Lapointe is ok for me.

Hudler <> Bertuzzi

Williams <> Lapointe

Datsyuk - Zetts - Homer

Cleary - Lang - Bertuzzi

Maltby - Draper - Lapointe

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Looks nice.

[Rmac111 2]

Henkka I like those lines A LOT!

[Guest Crymson]

Alan Adams:

Umm, Lapointe? Why don't we just score on our own goal a few times and save ourselves the money?

What if we got all three??? That would be COOL!!!! (as long as Bertuzzi can get healthy of course! )

What kind of numbers does Lapointe have this year?

Lapointe has the worst +/- (-15) on the Blackhawks. Considering that the Blackhawks are a terrible team, that's saying a lot... he more than makes up for his points scored with his hideous errors. Not worth it. Want a fighter? Just get Norton.

awesome if this is reliable.

I hope Kenny adds Lapointe and Gueirn.

This would help us out.

I like Lapointe could possibly get rejuvinated if he wears the winged wheel again.

Okay, let me put it this way:

Lapointe was a minus-14 on the '96-'97 Red Wings. That takes effort. Bad effort.

in the new cap era, is marty really worth the 2.?? million per for the next year+?

Nope. He wouldn't even merit the $2.4m in the non-cap era.

except he has won a cup, playoff experience, proven clutch player, will stand up for team mates, better offensive side

Playoff experience.. people put far too much stock on this. Cup-winning means little. He is no longer a clutch player. He is DECENT offensively, but not a $2.4m offensive player, and he makes so many goal-costing mistakes that all of his scoring is basically canceled out. So what have we here? A guy with effectively no points, who will stand up for teammates. $2.4m? Try again. Norton can do both for nothing.

I wouldn't mind Lapointe either, the problem is eating that salary for a year.

But he's strong, tough, will drop the gloves, and probably good for 30 points a year.

Maybe he'd even do better back in Detroit where there would be a lot fewer expectations placed on him.

....and he'd be a Lilja-sized hole in our defense because of all the mistakes he makes. Think that Lilja f***s up a lot? See Marty. You'll be blown away.

Last I heard, Detroit had something like $25 M in available cap space for next season. I think it could be worth it.

Sigh. That $25m free assumes that we won't sign ANY of our UFAs, including Datsyuk and Schneider. Try again.

In any case, last I checked having extra money didn't warrant relaxing regulations on not spending stupidly. Besides, you'll be bitching and moaning come the postseason when that cap space is full and we have better people we could have signed. Don't be so shortsighted.

Lapointe was offered 5 mil. a year by Boston. He couldn't pass that up.

The Wings pointedly refused to give him nearly that much money. I believe the maximum offer was ~$3m. Lapointe's replacement? Brett Hull. Bye bye, Marty--you are now obsolete.

Take what you want from this, but a buddy of mine works for a large hockey publication and said that he was told that the Wings are the final stages of trading for Todd Bertuzzi in exchange for Igor Grigorenko and a first round pick. If its true it sounds good to me!

That's three degrees of separation. Ever play telephone?

Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Crymson , you really hate Lapointe dont ya ?

[Guest Crymson]

I'm not too familiar with Fedotenko's ability to hit, but I'd imagine half the reason we'd even be looking at Marty is because he's gritty. idk about everyone else, but I'm sick of teams hitting us hard and we dont having much of an answer for them

I've said it before and I'll say it again--Lapointe is worthless on the points end, and we can get grit for less than $2.4m plus next year's contract. No thanks.

Again, everyone would ***** and moan come the postseason when we needed that $2.4m, and when they saw just how awful Marty is now.

Crymson , you really hate Lapointe dont ya ?

No, I just think any talk of picking him up is:

A) Silly, as he's way too costly, he sucks, and we'd be stuck with him next year.

B) Motivated largely by nostalgia.

i'd take Lapointe back in a heartbeat..

he's had some pretty bad linemates since he left tbh...i think he'd work on our 2nd line, or our checking line

Case in point.

i think he's on about 2.5, so we'd have to take about 800k of that..

i think he's signed for next year though as well, so that may create issues...

i'm not saying it's going to happen and i'm not saying it's necessarily a great idea...

but i always loved him as a wing, and i think he could do a job for us

Again.

He's worth $2.4m about as much as Fedorov is worth $6m--that is to say, not at all. Of course, some people want both he and Fedorov back anyway.

Well, whether it's 2.4/5, that's not bad at all. That would be a great signing, but I'd hope Kenny wouldn't just stop there. I'd love to add him, but we'd still need to add a guy like Guerin.

Trust me, you'll be whining next year when we couldn't spend the money on someone else.

I'm not completely sure but the last few games that I have watched had him hitting a good amount, although most games he gets about 4-9 registered hits (more than our team total sometimes... ), thats as of recent i think. I know theres a hits count somewhere but my internet is crapping out right now so I'm not gunna find it. I think he has a potential to do a lot better with the wings, playing on a top caliber team and all..

Want 20 registered hits per game? Get Bootland. Marty? About the same as paying $100K for a Civic just because you like the color.

I'm not sure I said exactly that, but I will eat my words a bit. I don't think he has much offensively anymore. We need a player who will muck it up with others and protect our players if needed, he does that, no?

Yes, but that plus nostalgia does not equal $2.4m plus commitment.

maybe not the 1st or 2nd but definitely the 3rd. He's tough and he can score.......we could use that.

Look at his defensive numbers. Oh, and then look at all the other cheaper, non-defensively-horrid players who can also score 20 points in a season. Marty is no better offensively than is Draper--possibly not as good.

not totally....but he doesn't suck

If you're talking cost vs skill ratio, then Marty does indeed suck.

Idk man, but there are multiple sources saying that he's avaliable

"Multiple sources" does not spell R-E-L-I-A-B-L-E.

I think Guerin is going to be too expensive. Bertuzzi + Lapointe is ok for me.

Hudler <> Bertuzzi

Williams <> Lapointe

Datsyuk - Zetts - Homer

Cleary - Lang - Bertuzzi

Maltby - Draper - Lapointe

Franzen - Filppula - Samuelsson

Looks nice.

Good luck trading Williams for Lapointe.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Guys , give up Lapointe isnt on his way back , Crymson is trying to get that through to you all. Its not gonna happen

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Lapointe sucks @2.4M Jamal Mayers @.9M B4 Lapointe.

Wow- you can post on this forum from a cell phone?

[wingslogo19 281]

I've said it before and I'll say it again--Lapointe is worthless on the points end, and we can get grit for less than $2.4m plus next year's contract. No thanks.

Again, everyone would ***** and moan come the postseason when we needed that $2.4m, and when they saw just how awful Marty is now.

No, I just think any talk of picking him up is:

A) Silly, as he's way too costly, he sucks, and we'd be stuck with him next year.

B) Motivated largely by nostalgia.

Case in point.

Again.

He's worth $2.4m about as much as Fedorov is worth $6m--that is to say, not at all. Of course, some people want both he and Fedorov back anyway.

Trust me, you'll be whining next year when we couldn't spend the money on someone else.

Want 20 registered hits per game? Get Bootland. Marty? About the same as paying $100K for a Civic just because you like the color.

Yes, but that plus nostalgia does not equal $2.4m plus commitment.

Look at his defensive numbers. Oh, and then look at all the other cheaper, non-defensively-horrid players who can also score 20 points in a season. Marty is no better offensively than is Draper--possibly not as good.

If you're talking cost vs skill ratio, then Marty does indeed suck.

"Multiple sources" does not spell R-E-L-I-A-B-L-E.

Good luck trading Williams for Lapointe.

Crymson don't stress over this, its not worth it.. People are just not listening to you

[Guest Crymson]

Guys , give up Lapointe isnt on his way back , Crymson is trying to get that through to you all. Its not gonna happen

Honestly, I'm pretty afraid he WILL be on his way back.

Who knows? He might round out well on the Wings. However, I think that the odds against him playing $2.4m hockey are astronomical. Hence, not worth it IMO--and, as a defensive liability, he might actually hurt the team.. before he's benched.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson

[wingslogo19 281]

Honestly, I'm pretty afraid he WILL be on his way back.

Who knows? He might round out well on the Wings. However, I think that the odds against him playing $2.4m hockey are astronomical. Hence, not worth it IMO--and, as a defensive liability, he might actually hurt the team.. before he's benched.

Don't say that now

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Honestly, I'm pretty afraid he WILL be on his way back.

Who knows? He might round out well on the Wings. However, I think that the odds against him playing $2.4m hockey are astronomical. Hence, not worth it IMO--and, as a defensive liability, he might actually hurt the team.. before he's benched.

Honestly I'd take Lapointe back, but not at 2.4 mill.

It seems like you hate him a little beyond his actual performance.

yes, he was -14 on the 1997 Wings, but I don't remember the situation well enough as to why that would be so. Lapointe isn't a selke candidate, but he never struck me as a massive liability. and for what it's worth, he was a +17 on the 2000 wings and a +12 on the 2002 Bruins. He's posted both good and terrible +/- stats throughout his career. I don't think you can tell a whole lot from that stat alone.

He loves to plant himself in front of the net, he's tough, and he'd be good for around 20-30 points on the Wings.

He's just been way overpaid since he left Detroit. Lapointe is a good role player who's been paid like a powerforward.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

Lapointe has been banking on his performance when he was with the Wings ever since he left. I wouldnt mind having him back but at 2.4, no way.

Lapointe did produce in the playoffs mind you, I cant remember if it was 97 or 98 but he lead or was close to leading us in goals.

[esteef 2,679]

Lapointe has the worst +/- (-15) on the Blackhawks.

Lapointe was a minus-14 on the '96-'97 Red Wings.

Playoff experience.. people put far too much stock on this.

As they do with +/-...

Martin LaPointe -14

Sheldon Souray -14

Jamal Mayers -14

Adam Foote -15

Matty Nordstrom -17

Rob Blake -23

Darcy Tucker -13

Alex Ovechkin -13

Jonathan Cheechoo -12

I guess all those guys suck too...

Edited February 21, 2007 by esteef

[Guest Crymson]

As they do with +/-...

Martin LaPointe -14

Sheldon Souray -14

Jamal Mayers -14

Adam Foote -15

Matty Nordstrom -17

Rob Blake -23

Darcy Tucker -13

Alex Ovechkin -13

Jonathan Cheechoo -12

I guess all those guys suck too...

These things must go in context:

Foote plays for Columbus. Columbus's players` total +/- is -131, one of the worst in the league.

Rob Blake and Matthias Norstrom play for Los Angeles. Los Angeles's player total +/- is -152, the worst in the league.

Ovechkin plays for Washington. That team's total +/- is -94. Bad.

Souray is glaringly hideous on defense. Everybody knows that and nobody disputes it. Hence his +/-.

Tucker? As I recall, the Leafs started the season pretty slow. He got injured before they got on track

Lapointe? He's DEAD LAST in +/- on a team that's only a total -33 amongst players. He also has only 17 points--most certainly NOT a good scorer. 17 points vs a -15? No thanks.

As for Meyers, I don't know much about him at all. Cheechoo? I haven't a clue why his +/- is bad; however, keep in mind that the Sharks' total is -25.

Keep in mind that Souray scores a tremendous amount, Cheechoo scores a tremendous amount, and Tucker has scored a very significant amount as well. Of course, so has Ovechkin.

Lapointe has been banking on his performance when he was with the Wings ever since he left. I wouldnt mind having him back but at 2.4, no way.

Lapointe did produce in the playoffs mind you, I cant remember if it was 97 or 98 but he lead or was close to leading us in goals.

You are correct that Lapointe produced in '98; he had 9 goals and 6 assists for 15 points in 21 games. However, as he put up these numbers nearly ten years ago, I do not see how they are relevant here. Mind you, he has had 5 goals and 4 assists for 9 points in 42 playoff games since.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson

[Kp-Wings 3]

Lilja for Lapointe.

[Barrie 900]

Lapointe has been banking on his performance when he was with the Wings ever since he left. I wouldnt mind having him back but at 2.4, no way.

Lapointe did produce in the playoffs mind you, I cant remember if it was 97 or 98 but he lead or was close to leading us in goals.

1997 he had 12 pts (4 G, 8 A) in 20 GP

1998 was his big playoff year 15 pts (9 G, 6 A) in 21 GP

At the risk of giving Crymson another , out of the main guys available, I like Lapointe over Tkachuck, Bertuzzi, and Roberts.

Tkachuk has a history of bad playoffs, bad penalties, and bad work ethic.

Bertuzzi would bring a media circus, also who knows when he's coming back?

Roberts is 40 and has injury problems. Plus Roberts wants to go to either Toronto or Ottawa.

I know Lapointe is making $2.4 Million, but I don't think it's that big a deal, especially if we have an excellent playoffs. For one year, we can handle it. If we get Lapointe or not, 2007-08 will be some what of a rebuilding year. Howard will be on the team; Lang, Schneider, and Maltby will probably be gone; Filppula, Kopecky, and Hudler (whoever's left) will be given increased ice time (low salaries); Grigorenko will get a chance (another low salary). We probably won't be a major player in the FA market this off season with all our young talent, so Lapointe's $2.4 million probably won't really effect anything. 2008-09 we'll be more active signing FA's, and at that point, Lapointe will either be gone, or sign for less.

Guerin would be a good pick up, but I think we'd still need to bring in someone who can fight.

[Guest Crymson]

1997 he had 12 pts (4 G, 8 A) in 20 GP

1998 was his big playoff year 15 pts (9 G, 6 A) in 21 GP

At the risk of giving Crymson another , out of the main guys available, I like Lapointe over Tkachuck, Bertuzzi, and Roberts.

Tkachuk has a history of bad playoffs, bad penalties, and bad work ethic.

Bertuzzi would bring a media circus, also who knows when he's coming back?

Roberts is 40 and has injury problems. Plus Roberts wants to go to either Toronto or Ottawa.

I know Lapointe is making $2.4 Million, but I don't think it's that big a deal, especially if we have an excellent playoffs. For one year, we can handle it. If we get Lapointe or not, 2007-08 will be some what of a rebuilding year. Howard will be on the team; Lang, Schneider, and Maltby will probably be gone; Filppula, Kopecky, and Hudler (whoever's left) will be given increased ice time (low salaries); Grigorenko will get a chance (another low salary). We probably won't be a major player in the FA market this off season with all our young talent, so Lapointe's $2.4 million probably won't really effect anything. 2008-09 we'll be more active signing FA's, and at that point, Lapointe will either be gone, or sign for less.

Guerin would be a good pick up, but I think we'd still need to bring in someone who can fight.

We've already exchanged views on this, so I have no reason to go at it again. I simply disagree on the highest order.

FYI, though: just because we have young talent does not mean that we will spend under the cap. The Wings will never spend significantly under the cap. Lots of space will equal big acquisitions.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson

[Barrie 900]

We've already exchanged views on this, so I have no reason to go at it again. I simply disagree on the highest order.

Right, Holland has the final say anyway. Nothing we say here effects what happens. All we can do is sit back and watch what goes down.

[Guest Crymson]

Right, Holland has the final say anyway. Nothing we say here effects what happens. All we can do is sit back and watch what goes down.

Ten-four. Agree completely. At the end of the day, we're still spectators.

[betterREDthandead 58]

We probably won't be a major player in the FA market this off season with all our young talent, so Lapointe's $2.4 million probably won't really effect anything.

Au contraire, we will be huge players in the FA market this summer, especially if Datsyuk takes off. Holland, if I'm not mistaken, set it up that way with the contracts he signed people to this past offseason, knowing that the age limit for UFAs would be dropping and the '07 market would be a good one.

We already have $2.6 million in what people consider wasted dead money (Williams, Lilja) and people are nearly having seizures over this. Why would having Lapointe instead be any different? As Crymson is trying to hammer into people's heads, Lapointe is brutal defensively. People think he'd be a grittier, fighting Maltby. He wouldn't. Maltby doesn't turn to jello when he enters his own zone.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Au contraire, we will be huge players in the FA market this summer, especially if Datsyuk takes off.

Whether or not he leaves we'll need all the money we can get, methinks. Either we'll be handing Pavel an enormous wad of cash for his playoff brilliance (or, s***, adequacy), or we'll be in the hunt for whomever Buffalo can't afford to keep, etc.

Holland might not know s***, but he's smart enough to know how to get money off the books all at once.

Which, by the way, puts the kibosh on any Lapointe murmurs. So there!

[Barrie 900]

With all of that said, I'd rather we don't make a major move at all. If Bertuzzi, Tkachuk, and Guerin are only around for for rental and don't stick around, then I don't want to see Filppula, Hudler, or Grigorenko and a 1st traded for any of them. And if the Lapointe rumor doesn't make any sense, then I say stick with what we have.