johnnyoski 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 By tactic I meant even if he was close to a deal he's not going to tip anyone off. Those who think Holland was waiting too long to address needs have to consider a few things. 1. Guerin came off a horrible year. The only team willing to take a chance on him was the team that finished dead last. They were desperate for players and more willing to take a big risk. It obviously worked out well for the Blues. 2. Bertuzzi came at the expense of Roberto Luongo. At that time it would have equalled the Wings giving up Datsyuk, a prospect and maybe a draft pick. The price for Bert has obviously gone way down. (Vancouver looks great right now for this trade). 3. We didn't have the needed cap space at the beginning of the season. After they moved Fischer's salary it opened them up to make moves at the trade deadline. Don't get me wrong. I agree that we didn't address some of our needs before the season but I don't know what else he could have done at that time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Enforcer 13 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 With the new rule tweaking, I would guess that we are going to need some "Goons / Power forward / Grit" for next year.....getting them now for the picks and getting them signed or picking up a contract seems smarter than open market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanBarnes! 293 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Funny thing is, if Holland bets the farm, and if we still lose in the first round, and now we're out some good prospects and good picks. I'm sure people here will still be discontented. I'd rather not pay at all, then overpay dearly, for a rental. It all depends on what he trades and what he gets in return. If he finally decides to address this team's weaknesses, I think fans will be more "forgiving". The last thing people want to see is status quo and a team that is once again, too soft to compete. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 I agree with Holland when he said that there is another hockey that startes in sept.You can't aways be giving up on next season for the holy grail this one. Today hockey just does'nt work that wat anymore. I agree. I meant selling GMs ask for everything just to see if anyone is that dumb or desparate to pay it. Holland is used to this and is not fooled. He's a buyer every year... By tactic I meant even if he was close to a deal he's not going to tip anyone off. Those who think Holland was waiting too long to address needs have to consider a few things. 1. Guerin came off a horrible year. The only team willing to take a chance on him was the team that finished dead last. They were desperate for players and more willing to take a big risk. It obviously worked out well for the Blues. 2. Bertuzzi came at the expense of Roberto Luongo. At that time it would have equalled the Wings giving up Datsyuk, a prospect and maybe a draft pick. The price for Bert has obviously gone way down. (Vancouver looks great right now for this trade). 3. We didn't have the needed cap space at the beginning of the season. After they moved Fischer's salary it opened them up to make moves at the trade deadline. Don't get me wrong. I agree that we didn't address some of our needs before the season but I don't know what else he could have done at that time. Guerin and Bert specifically aren't the problem. It's Holland knowing he needs a player of that ilk and still not getting one until everybody needs one is the complaint. And if we didn't have money, why were we in the race for Dumont, Carter, Nolan, etc.? peace, esteef Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) *edit* Edited February 21, 2007 by Kp-Wings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteLightning91 105 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 damn straight tbh i'd be happy with just someone like Lapointe if prices are still stupid by tuesday So you dont want Holland to trade for someone whose price is stupid but you're in favor getting Lapointe??? Great Logic... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Scooter 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) This is making me crazy, Holland is turning out to be the biggest flip-flopper we have seen since John Kerry in the last presidentail election. He will, than gee I don't know, it's kind of expensive, okay so forget Tkachuk and Guerin, what about Carter , and another second tier player?? This is getting to be utterly ridiculous, and if he does nothing now, chances are the prices will be even MORE in the summer's free agent market, because just like last year, GOD FORBID Kenny signs ANY PLAYER to a contract of more than one year! WHAT THE HELL! If he does not pull off even a "minor depth" move. I say all LGW Posters form a lynch mob, and hunt him down like a DOG!!!! :battle: Edited February 21, 2007 by Winged Scooter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
epps 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 You mean you actually have to trade assets to get assets? What a shock. Maybe Holland should have thought about this back in the summer when he had the cap space to sign players that he's now looking to trade for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
esteef 2,679 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 This is making me crazy, Holland is turning out to be the biggest flip-flopper we have seen since John Kerry in the last presidentail election. He will, than gee I don't know, it's kind of expensive, okay so forget Tkachuk and Guerin, what about Carter , and another second tier player?? This is getting to be utterly ridiculous, and if he does nothing now, chances are the prices will be even MORE in the summer's free agent market, because just like last year, GOD FORBID Kenny signs ANY PLAYER to a contract of more than one year! WHAT THE HELL! If he does not pull off even a "minor depth" move. I say all LGW Posters form a lynch mob, and hunt him down like a DOG!!!! :battle: Who the hell hunts dogs? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) I know Kenny doesn't want to get a bad deal, but... A first round pick really shouldn't be too big of a deal. We'll end up from probably between 26-30th pick. Look at Krownwall, he's a number 1 and not much has come of him. Pavel a 6th and Zetterberg a 7th... Kenny has the talent to scout great players, so a first round isn't as important to us as maybe another GM Edited February 21, 2007 by Mudvayneowns91 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged Scooter 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Who the hell hunts dogs? A deer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Holland needs to understand that prices aren't going down.....their going up. At this point, I think we need to make a deal right away. If we don't.......eh, I still think we have a solid team for the playoffs. But its just gonna get worse between now and the deadline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 <--- We are as we once were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyoski 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Hey guys, this is only the 2nd season since the lockout. GMs are still adjusting to working with a cap at the trade deadline. And don't forget, Holland has people like Bowman, Yzerman and Devellano to confer with. Don't you think if there was someone they absolutely wanted that Kenny wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger? Jeez the way you all lynch Holland I thought I was on the Lions message boards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Hey guys, this is only the 2nd season since the lockout. GMs are still adjusting to working with a cap at the trade deadline. And don't forget, Holland has people like Bowman, Yzerman and Devellano to confer with. Don't you think if there was someone they absolutely wanted that Kenny wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger? Jeez the way you all lynch Holland I thought I was on the Lions message boards. Idk about that, I think at least %90 of everybody here loves Kenny. In my opinion and most, he's the best GM in the league. I can't even recall the last time we missed the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ZetterBurger40 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Idk about that, I think at least %90 of everybody here loves Kenny. In my opinion and most, he's the best GM in the league. I can't even recall the last time we missed the playoffs He is THE best GM in the league. The Holland haters are just the most vocal on LGW. Outside of this site, its pretty hard to find anyone that thinks Holland is a bad GM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 He is THE best GM in the league. The Holland haters are just the most vocal on LGW. Outside of this site, its pretty hard to find anyone that thinks Holland is a bad GM. You don't read MLive much, do you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) You don't read MLive much, do you? MLive has some of the worst posters on the internet. I haven't made an account there simply because I know I'd be arguing with people all day. After the Forsberg trade someone said we should've traded Zetterberg for him because Forsberg is the proven playoff player. Edited February 21, 2007 by ARice89 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 You don't read MLive much, do you? I don't see where all the gripes are with him. Pretty sure like the last 10/15 years, we have the best winning percentage of any NHL team. Honestly, when was the last time we were not in the playoff hunt. And was Kenny our guy then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 MLive has some of the worst posters on the internet. I haven't made an account there simply because I know I'd be arguing with people all day. After the Forsberg trade someone said we should've traded Zetterberg for him because Forsberg is the proven playoff player. I would never want to meet the "genius" that came up with that theory! :nonono: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 I don't see where all the gripes are with him. Pretty sure like the last 10/15 years, we have the best winning percentage of any NHL team. Honestly, when was the last time we were not in the playoff hunt. And was Kenny our guy then? Oh come on. Spend about 10 minutes at that board and you'll see what I'm talking about. ARice already put it forward: The MLive forums are nothing but arguing and Holland bashing. There is no actual conversation that goes on there, just arguing and saying Holland sucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) According to TSN on the winter GM meetings: ''I have a better sense of the market now as I head home,'' said Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland. ''The prices remain too high. Whether or not we'll be willing to pay that price next Tuesday at the deadline remains to be seen.'' Keep in mind that the prices might indeed be too high. Years of trading away first-round draft picks have left us rather dry in that category, and as a direct result of that we also need our budding prospects. We can't afford to trade them away. EDIT: We're all used to decades with the ability to splurge massively on players at the trade deadline, and again spend tremendously in the summer to replace anyone whom we might have traded. Keep in mind that the cap era has ended our ability to do this. Edited February 21, 2007 by Crymson Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 In any event, it's all just a load of posturing before the trade season gets into full swing. Prices ought to come down as the deadline approaches; nobody wants their FAs to get away for nothing, and none of their suitors want to be swindled. Things even out... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted February 21, 2007 Its called if Holland doesnt do something to help this team in the playoffs we are out in the 1st round .... yet again. Please get back in touch with reality. There are times when things CANNOT be done. Can you give me the michigan milions numbers while you're at it? You can obviously forsee everything that is going to happen. I'd like them too, if you don't mind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted February 21, 2007 If the asking price is still Hudler + 1st for Bill Guerin I'd pass as well. Especially since he'd want 4m+ next year anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites