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WingedWheelin06

Holland backing down?

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According to TSN.ca and other sites were talking about the demands of Philly being extravagent and most teams beside the Preds being unwilling to meet them. In fact, TSN noted the Preds outbid other teams by a wide marging. I simply don't see any of the other potential buyers making those kind of offers.

Few of the remaining buyers have the young assets that Nash had to deal. Nash could afford to deal a young dman because their system is so stocked. This is not true of other teams.

Guerin, Smyth, Fatchuk et al are NOT Forsberg. Forsberg has, at times, been the best forward in the league and he is a proven playoff warrior. In contrast, the remaining high level forwards are all playoff disappointments (Guerin or Tkachuk with something like .5 pts per game in the playoffs) or haven't won anything

uhm... IPB Image Guerin's won something

Edited by rwfan007

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I think this, "We could have got Guerin before the season for nothin'" talk is :crazy:. It makes no sense to me to make this an issue at the end of February. No one knew he'd bounce back like he did. There was a reason why he signed with St. Louis.

I have to agree with Holland. The market for these rent o' players is to high. The only player who's going to be an UFA at the end of this season I'd like the Wings to go after is Ryan Smyth. Unlike the other players, Smyth would probably sign long term (assuming Datsyuk goes somewhere else, and there's money available). He's the only one worth it to trade a prospect(s) and picks for.

It really seems impossible that 29 other GM's didn't think much of Guerin.

Maybe that was the case,but then they seriously lacked any vision.

And the prices might be high,but I just can't help wondering if this is one of Kenny's delaying tactics. You know, like during the summer he says : " I won't be signing UFA's,we have to save money for the trade deadline."

And vice versa...

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Good lord, some people in here seem to get a wet dream knowing there's a chance to rip on Holland.

I'm not a big Holland fan (so don't call me an apologist or a Holland slappie or I will jump through my computer and strangle you), he probably could have done some things in the past to better this organization with more size etc., but I am getting pretty sick and tired of people jumping the gun thinking he is the next coming of Satan before things settle down.

I know he had a chance to get something like Guerin in the offseason.

I know he didn't do much during last trading deadline.

I GET IT.

When there are multiple GMs confirming that asking prices for some of the bigger players are too high, guess what? It's not all Holland's fault for maybe not doing something yet.

There's roughly a week left before the deadline, so here is an idea, even though I know it will fall on deaf ears of many. Why don't we all just be patient and wait to see what Holland does? If he doesn't do anything to better this club or has made it worse after February 27th, then we can cry out for his head to be roasted at the next barbeque? Okay?

Have some patience.

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uhm... IPB Image Guerin's won something

If you actually care to read, I said they're all playoff disappointments (Guerin or Tkachuk with something like .5 pts per game in the playoffs) or haven't won anything

Look up the career playoff stats and they're not good every single year.

Edited by Mighty Wings

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my (realistic) trade wishlist:

1. Guerin

2. Tkachuk

3. Nolan

4. Lapointe

NO NO NO!!!!!!

1. What is this fascination with Guerin? Who have you guys been watching? He WAS a power forward. WAS. Not anymore. NOT what we're looking for in a winger.

2. The most annoying one. This guy is garbage. Hasn't been good in years. Has an attitude problem to boot and is out of shape. Isn't the physical presence we need.

3. OH GOD! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! This guy is worse than garbage. He's got nothing for a playoff run. His body is broken. He can stay in Phoenix wherever or wherever he is and vacation.

4. Lapointe is the SORT of player we need. BUT he himself is NOT him. Not very motivated most of the time and his brain is not too smart. Remember L.A in 2001. Osgood or no Osgood, that is not the kind of physicality we need. Someone with more brains.

My suggestions:

Rafi Torres. Young-ish, tough, feisty, pretty quick and can lay the smackdown and brings attitude every night.

Todd Fedoruk. 6'2, 250lbs. Nough said.

And there's no need to mortage the farm like we would have to for HAS BEENS like your list.

P.S, no offence to you mate, just generally speaking. I'm so tired of reading about Guerin and Tkachuk and the like. Guys who once WERE powerful and strong but who are not now. And who would be VERY expensive.

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4. Lapointe is the SORT of player we need. BUT he himself is NOT him. Not very motivated most of the time and his brain is not too smart. Remember L.A in 2001. Osgood or no Osgood, that is not the kind of physicality we need. Someone with more brains.

I think unfairly Lapointe's penalties in 2001 still overshadow a lot of good he did in a Wings jersey. I watched that series against the Kings, and was as disapointed as everyone else, but honestly, with Stevie and Shanny injured that playoff, we really had no chance.

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NO NO NO!!!!!!

1. What is this fascination with Guerin? Who have you guys been watching? He WAS a power forward. WAS. Not anymore. NOT what we're looking for in a winger.

2. The most annoying one. This guy is garbage. Hasn't been good in years. Has an attitude problem to boot and is out of shape. Isn't the physical presence we need.

3. OH GOD! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! This guy is worse than garbage. He's got nothing for a playoff run. His body is broken. He can stay in Phoenix wherever or wherever he is and vacation.

4. Lapointe is the SORT of player we need. BUT he himself is NOT him. Not very motivated most of the time and his brain is not too smart. Remember L.A in 2001. Osgood or no Osgood, that is not the kind of physicality we need. Someone with more brains.

My suggestions:

Rafi Torres. Young-ish, tough, feisty, pretty quick and can lay the smackdown and brings attitude every night.

Todd Fedoruk. 6'2, 250lbs. Nough said.

And there's no need to mortage the farm like we would have to for HAS BEENS like your list.

P.S, no offence to you mate, just generally speaking. I'm so tired of reading about Guerin and Tkachuk and the like. Guys who once WERE powerful and strong but who are not now. And who would be VERY expensive.

Well put TO - I agree with you 100%

The last thing we need are washed up deadweights that are considered so good (Guerrin, Nolan(!!!?) Tkachuk)however, they could not help their teams make the playoffs in a league that has over half the franchises make it to the dance.

Remeber last year the names: Fernando Pisani, Shawn Horcoff, Mike Peca and the year before: Mike Commodore, Daymond Langkow These were the type of players the beat out our mighty Red Wings!

The team is solid and needs nothing more then a small adjustment in the toughness catagory - we need guys who will act as roll players to support the exisiting superstars.

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NO NO NO!!!!!!

1. What is this fascination with Guerin? Who have you guys been watching? He WAS a power forward. WAS. Not anymore. NOT what we're looking for in a winger.

2. The most annoying one. This guy is garbage. Hasn't been good in years. Has an attitude problem to boot and is out of shape. Isn't the physical presence we need.

3. OH GOD! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! This guy is worse than garbage. He's got nothing for a playoff run. His body is broken. He can stay in Phoenix wherever or wherever he is and vacation.

4. Lapointe is the SORT of player we need. BUT he himself is NOT him. Not very motivated most of the time and his brain is not too smart. Remember L.A in 2001. Osgood or no Osgood, that is not the kind of physicality we need. Someone with more brains.

My suggestions:

Rafi Torres. Young-ish, tough, feisty, pretty quick and can lay the smackdown and brings attitude every night.

Todd Fedoruk. 6'2, 250lbs. Nough said.

And there's no need to mortage the farm like we would have to for HAS BEENS like your list.

P.S, no offence to you mate, just generally speaking. I'm so tired of reading about Guerin and Tkachuk and the like. Guys who once WERE powerful and strong but who are not now. And who would be VERY expensive.

How many goals has Guerin scored this year, please answer that question.. IF you don't want someone who scores i don't know what you want

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NO NO NO!!!!!!

1. What is this fascination with Guerin? Who have you guys been watching? He WAS a power forward. WAS. Not anymore. NOT what we're looking for in a winger.

2. The most annoying one. This guy is garbage. Hasn't been good in years. Has an attitude problem to boot and is out of shape. Isn't the physical presence we need.

3. OH GOD! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! This guy is worse than garbage. He's got nothing for a playoff run. His body is broken. He can stay in Phoenix wherever or wherever he is and vacation.

4. Lapointe is the SORT of player we need. BUT he himself is NOT him. Not very motivated most of the time and his brain is not too smart. Remember L.A in 2001. Osgood or no Osgood, that is not the kind of physicality we need. Someone with more brains.

My suggestions:

Rafi Torres. Young-ish, tough, feisty, pretty quick and can lay the smackdown and brings attitude every night.

Todd Fedoruk. 6'2, 250lbs. Nough said.

And there's no need to mortage the farm like we would have to for HAS BEENS like your list.

P.S, no offence to you mate, just generally speaking. I'm so tired of reading about Guerin and Tkachuk and the like. Guys who once WERE powerful and strong but who are not now. And who would be VERY expensive.

Um....what games are you watching?

1. Guerin....you're saying he WAS a power forward? I'm sorry, but 28 goals is not my definition of "was". I think he could easily put a Shany presence on the team.

2. Tkachuk is garbage and can't play? He has 20 goals and I think he's in better shape now then in a long time. HE'S NOT FAT, WHY DOES EVERYONE KEEP SAYING THIS.???

3. Nolan is a solid, reliable winger who isn't soft and has a lot of grit. I'd love to see what he can do here. You say he doesn't do anything in the playoffs?....did you watch hockey before 2003? Did you see what kind of a monster he was on the sharks during the playoffs???

4. Lapointe is tough. He can score, and he is tough. He'd fit in fine back with the red and white.

thats my input

Edited by shanahanman

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Guerin was horrible last year with Dallas. If I can remember, there was NO bidding war to get him in the summer, mainly because he wasn't worth s***. The only team that would take him was desperate for players, and was willing to give him anything to fill the roster. To say that it was a mistake for Holland not to sign Guerin in the offseason is just plain stupid. He was awful last year, he was actually contemplating retirement over the summer, and was not very happy over the summer. He really proved he's still got it in St. Louis, so it's smart to make a push for him now. But over the summer he wasn't worth it.

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I really like the Blues Brothers and wouldn't mind either Guerin or Tkachuk on this team. I don't like the whole Lapointe idea. If thats the case, i would rather spend an extra 1 million or so next season and get Samsonov.

The NHL is too competitive for the trade deadline to be so early. Some teams just aren't ready to accept the fact that they wont make the playoffs. I think it should go back to the second tuesday in march and see if blockbuster trades made a come back.

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Guest Crymson

I think unfairly Lapointe's penalties in 2001 still overshadow a lot of good he did in a Wings jersey. I watched that series against the Kings, and was as disapointed as everyone else, but honestly, with Stevie and Shanny injured that playoff, we really had no chance.

Well, tonight all (most, anyway) of us got a chance to see just how awful Marty is. No thanks.

Guerin was horrible last year with Dallas. If I can remember, there was NO bidding war to get him in the summer, mainly because he wasn't worth s***. The only team that would take him was desperate for players, and was willing to give him anything to fill the roster. To say that it was a mistake for Holland not to sign Guerin in the offseason is just plain stupid. He was awful last year, he was actually contemplating retirement over the summer, and was not very happy over the summer. He really proved he's still got it in St. Louis, so it's smart to make a push for him now. But over the summer he wasn't worth it.

:clap::clap:

I totally agree. Like I've said, hindsight is 20/20. Kudos for not giving in to the 'scapegoat-at-any-cost' mentality that some here subscribe to.

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Well, tonight all (most, anyway) of us got a chance to see just how awful Marty is. No thanks.

:clap::clap:

I totally agree. Like I've said, hindsight is 20/20. Kudos for not giving in to the 'scapegoat-at-any-cost' mentality that some here subscribe to.

i'm not gonna lie.....he didn't look good out there..... :unsure:

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Well, tonight all (most, anyway) of us got a chance to see just how awful Marty is. No thanks.

Ok. Well my comments really didn't have anything to do with bringing him back. As mentioned in another discussion, I'm ok with staying as is for the playoffs. I don't like the idea of trading Hudler or Filppula and a 1st rounder for a UFA. Also, if these Lapointe rumors are fan and media driven and not from the organization, then there's really no use for me to debate it anymore.

However, I think it's sad sometimes that Marty is remembered more for the late Penalties in the 2001 playoffs, more so than his performance in the 1997 and 1998 Cup runs.

-1997 stepped it up with 12 pts, and he was excellent against the Avs.

-1998 he scored 9 goals (15 pts), including the Cup GWG. Also, he annoyed the hell out of Belfour in the WCF and got him off his game.

-2001 despite the late penalties, we really didn't have a chance with Stevie and Shanny out anyway.

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Melrose was just on ESPN. He said it was pretty imperative that the wings get a big, tough forward cause right now we're just a two-man team. He also says he wouldn't be surprised be Datsyuk goes to Washington next season.

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Guest Crymson

Ok. Well my comments really didn't have anything to do with bringing him back. As mentioned in another discussion, I'm ok with staying as is for the playoffs. I don't like the idea of trading Hudler or Filppula and a 1st rounder for a UFA. Also, if these Lapointe rumors are fan and media driven and not from the organization, then there's really no use for me to debate it anymore.

However, I think it's sad sometimes that Marty is remembered more for the late Penalties in the 2001 playoffs, more so than his performance in the 1997 and 1998 Cup runs.

-1997 stepped it up with 12 pts, and he was excellent against the Avs.

-1998 he scored 9 goals (15 pts), including the Cup GWG. Also, he annoyed the hell out of Belfour in the WCF and got him off his game.

-2001 despite the late penalties, we really didn't have a chance with Stevie and Shanny out anyway.

Lapointe did indeed put up great numbers for us in the '97 and '98 playoffs. However, those postseasons were almost ten years ago. Also, he has some 5 goals and 4 assists for 9 points in 42 playoff games since.

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Melrose was just on ESPN. He said it was pretty imperative that the wings get a big, tough forward cause right now we're just a two-man team. He also says he wouldn't be surprised be Datsyuk goes to Washington next season.

Datsyuk has a lot more chemistry with Zetterberg than he ever will with Ovechkin.

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Guest ZetterBurger40

Datsyuk has a lot more chemistry with Zetterberg than he ever will with Ovechkin.

I highly doubt that. Datsyuk will have chemistry with any big-time goal scorer that he's paired with- especially a beast like Ovechkin.

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I highly doubt that. Datsyuk will have chemistry with any big-time goal scorer that he's paired with- especially a beast like Ovechkin.

Yet he had zero chemistry with Shanahan. There goes that theory.

Think he had something like 7 primary assists on Shanny's 40 goals?

Edited by Heaton

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Yet he had zero chemistry with Shanahan. There goes that theory.

Think he had something like 7 primary assists on Shanny's 40 goals?

That doesn't mean that he's only able to work magic with Z though. Same with the notion that he will for sure light it up with -anyone- -- it all depends. He may, he may not, whoever he's with and how that works.

I wouldn't be surprised if he could have good numbers with Ovechkin though, if he opted against listening to his great buddy Hank. A fool's mistake to be sure, but we all act as fools in our lives at some point.

Edited by Flip-check

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