royedwards 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 I've been reading the various threads about this or that player (Lang, Williams, our goaltenders suck) and this or that weakness (no goals, no grit). I think if you put it all together, though, you come up with this general picture: The Wings have reinvented themselves as a non-physical, defensive team. The idea is that if you put 40 shots on the other guys' net every night, two or three might go in, and the other guys are too busy trying to clear their own zone to get set up in ours. If they do break out, our veteran defensemen and goalies can stop them. The good news is that this actually works most of the time, and it drives other teams crazy. You could hear the Preds grinding their long fangs for most of last night's game. The bad news is that this strategy leaves almost no room for error. A soft goal here, a bad turnover there, and we've let the bad guys back in the game. It also means that any player (even Hasek) can be the goat on any given night. I don't think a trade, even a good one, is going to change this general picture. Let's go along for the ride and see if the Wings actually get somewhere with this approach. I'm enjoying it, although it's rough on my aging heart. Sorry if this is stating or restating the obvious...I'm just looking for the forest beyond the trees. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FinWing 26 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 Sounds like a good (and at least somewhat original) assessment to me. No one player is gonna make the Wings a gritty team but at least I'd feel a bit more comfortable going into the playoffs is we got one or two tougher guys in. But if a reasonable trade can't be accomplished, Wings just have to work with what they have and that's it. Whatever happens, just gotta keep cheering for our boys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joshy207 156 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 It's a very similar style team to what they had in the early-to mid-90s. All finesse, no grit. Of course, those early/mid-90s teams didn't win much in the playoffs, just like the last 3 seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WhiteLightning91 105 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 I'm sorry...but barring any amazing trade that no one on this site has come up with, I do not see the Wing's going to the SCF with the team they have or the team they could have with Guerin or Bertuzzi. We have a good shot if we got both somehow and Dom stays healthy, but getting them both has a 99.9% chance of not happening. Just wait until the offseason, see which prospects are going to have a chance to make the team and sign some UFA's. (Yes, I am throwing the towel on this season. I think it is wayyy smarter than throwing away the future on an old ass rental player) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaKineMaui 8 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 I don't think a trade, even a good one, is going to change this general picture. Thank you for breaking down the 06-07 Wings for us - well me. Well done. (No sarcasm here.) Seen exactly two (2) games this season. Sounds like another good reg season with a system that requires too much consistent hard work for this squad to make a deep playoff run? -oh and I guess I'll give the trade sheets a quick scan at best? Thanks again. - aloha p.s. game 3 for me is next weekend I suppose. Network TV is running ads about some Avs team vs. da Wings. Whatever - I'll watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 It's a very similar style team to what they had in the early-to mid-90s. All finesse, no grit. Of course, those early/mid-90s teams didn't win much in the playoffs, just like the last 3 seasons. Pray tell, addition of what gritty players took the Wings from "playoff flops" in 1991-4 to Cup champs in 1997? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sliverck 3 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 If they are what they are, then they are on their way to another first round exit. So we lost Yzerman and Shanahan. But we added... ummm... Hasek? No, that doesn't really make anything better. Ok, let's see... Filpula? No. Hudler? No. Oh wait, I got it! It's Markov! Stanley Cup here we come! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 We can get a cup if we get the right players , Were the freaking red wings , we dont need youth , we can get amazing players in the 4th rounds and 5th rounds Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mila 0 Report post Posted February 25, 2007 I agree with the tread above. I would add that we lack players that would carry the team through the playoffs and overtake the responsibility. I'm not sure if Dats or Zett are capable to do it despite playing well lately and I don't expect anything big from our 2nd line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joshy207 156 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Pray tell, addition of what gritty players took the Wings from "playoff flops" in 1991-4 to Cup champs in 1997? Trading for Brendan Shanahan was the final piece. The emergence of Darren McCarty, Martin Lapointe, Kirk Maltby, Kris Draper, and Tomas Holmstrom, all of whom joined the Wings between 1993 and 1996. Acquiring role players like Doug Brown, Brent Gilchrist, Bob Rouse, Jamie Macoun, and Joe Kocur, guys who provided (to varying degrees) toughness, defensive responsibility, veteran experience, and a few goals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Trading for Brendan Shanahan was the final piece. The emergence of Darren McCarty, Martin Lapointe, Kirk Maltby, Kris Draper, and Tomas Holmstrom, all of whom joined the Wings between 1993 and 1996. Acquiring role players like Doug Brown, Brent Gilchrist, Bob Rouse, Jamie Macoun, and Joe Kocur, guys who provided (to varying degrees) toughness, defensive responsibility, veteran experience, and a few goals. Yeah the 1996-97 and 1997-98 teams were excellent. When we didn't get past the 2nd round in 1998-99 and 1999-00 we for some reason we went back to our early to mid 90's teams. Imagine what it would be like if we didn't win the Cup in 2001-02. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joshy207 156 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Imagine what it would be like if we didn't win the Cup in 2001-02. Mmmm... Crosby in a Wings uniform... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Doubt that, Holland would have traded off the pick for something stupid like Jager. Seriously, stop posting. Who's Jager anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HockeyCrazy3033 168 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 You know I think it's pretty pathetic that most of everyone on this board think the Wings have no chance this season. I think the team as it is is GREAT, BUT they need some grit/toughness. One ore two more key players and dare I say I think the Wings could win the Cup. But whatever.. I guess it's better that they are the underdogs this year that way everyone can eat their crow if they go far. *Which I believe they will* GIVEN they do something at the deadline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Trading for Brendan Shanahan was the final piece. The emergence of Darren McCarty, Martin Lapointe, Kirk Maltby, Kris Draper, and Tomas Holmstrom, all of whom joined the Wings between 1993 and 1996. Acquiring role players like Doug Brown, Brent Gilchrist, Bob Rouse, Jamie Macoun, and Joe Kocur, guys who provided (to varying degrees) toughness, defensive responsibility, veteran experience, and a few goals. Brown arrived in 94 Burr left in 95 Ciccarelli left in 96 Coffey left in 96 Cummins left in 93 Dandenault arrived in 95 Dollas left in 93 Drake left in 94 Draper arrived in 93 Eriksson arrived in 95 Errey arrived in 94 Fetisov arrived in 94 Gallant left in 93 Gilchrist arrived in 97 Golubovsky arrived in 97 Grimson arrived in 94 left in 97 Hodson arrived in 95 Holmstrom arrived in 96 Mark Howe left in 95 Sheldon Kennedy left in 95 Knuble arrived in 96 Joey Kocur 1984-99 Kruppke left in 94 Larionov arrived in 95 Macoun 1997-99 Maltby arrived in 95 McCrimmon left in 93 Dmitri Mironov 1997-98 Larry Murphy arrived in 95 Keith Primeau left in 96 Probert left in 94 Pushor arrived in 95 Racine left in 93 Mike Ramsey 1994-97 Rouse 1994-98 Tomas Sandstrom 1996-97 Shanahan arrived in 96 Sheppard left in 96 Mike Sillinger left in 95 Tim Taylor 1993-97 Ward arrived in 93 Ysebaert left in 93 Bold are players who I'd consider gritty who came during two-three years before 1997 Cup win, bold and italic are gritty player who left during that period. As you can see, for 11 gritty players come, 14 left before the 1997 Cup. You may count them differently, but the point is that the talent level of the players arriving was way more important than the simple grit. Without Larionov, Shanahan, Fetisov, Murphy, as well as Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom, there would be no 97 Cup. Probert and Grimson and Ciccarelli and Kennedy and Burr did not lack in grit. But the Wings won the Cup after they left. (I'm not sure if Grimson still was there in 97?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Brown arrived in 94 Burr left in 95 Ciccarelli left in 96 Coffey left in 96 Cummins left in 93 Dandenault arrived in 95 Dollas left in 93 Drake left in 94 Draper arrived in 93 Eriksson arrived in 95 Errey arrived in 94 Fetisov arrived in 94 Gallant left in 93 Gilchrist arrived in 97 Golubovsky arrived in 97 Grimson arrived in 94 left in 97 Hodson arrived in 95 Holmstrom arrived in 96 Mark Howe left in 95 Sheldon Kennedy left in 95 Knuble arrived in 96 Joey Kocur 1984-99 Kruppke left in 94 Larionov arrived in 95 Macoun 1997-99 Maltby arrived in 95 McCrimmon left in 93 Dmitri Mironov 1997-98 Larry Murphy arrived in 95 Keith Primeau left in 96 Probert left in 94 Pushor arrived in 95 Racine left in 93 Mike Ramsey 1994-97 Rouse 1994-98 Tomas Sandstrom 1996-97 Shanahan arrived in 96 Sheppard left in 96 Mike Sillinger left in 95 Tim Taylor 1993-97 Ward arrived in 93 Ysebaert left in 93 Bold are players who I'd consider gritty who came during two-three years before 1997 Cup win, bold and italic are gritty player who left during that period. As you can see, for 11 gritty players come, 14 left before the 1997 Cup. You may count them differently, but the point is that the talent level of the players arriving was way more important than the simple grit. Without Larionov, Shanahan, Fetisov, Murphy, as well as Maltby, Draper, and Holmstrom, there would be no 97 Cup. Probert and Grimson and Ciccarelli and Kennedy and Burr did not lack in grit. But the Wings won the Cup after they left. (I'm not sure if Grimson still was there in 97?) Pushor, Racine, and Ward should be in bold. The big key for the 97 and 98 teams was not the toughness at all. It was having a high skill level combined with tough guys WHO COULD PLAY. Shanny, Vladdie, Homer, McCarty, Lapointe all were tough guys who played very well in those Cup runs. Skilled guy who performed well, yet could also be described as the 'gonna pound you through the glass and punch you in the teeth' tough guys. Macoun, Rouse, Ward, Konstantinov, Maltby, Draper, Kocur all provided solid defense and a physical, gritty aspect we don't see nearly enough of on this year's team. Honestly though, this year's Wings team does have the tools to win. They have been winning with defense and clutch scoring all year, yet have the scoring capability to gun with anybody if it comes to that--provided Lang busts his slump. I know, Anaheim/Calgary/San Jose. Yes, those teams all have a high profile scorer and good team toughness. But as we have seen the past few seasons, the team that looks superior on paper is often the one that goes home. This Detroit teams is in much better position to succeed in the postseason than last year's Detroit team. Considering a couple lucky breaks or a couple timely saves by Legace could have completely reversed their fortunes--a Cup finals run might have been likely had they passed the first round, considering Detroit was the only Western Conference team to consistently outplay the Oilers in the postseason, goaltending aside. Detroit should win at the very least one round this season, and quite possibly two or three. Very real chance at the Cup, although certainly not the heavy favorite. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaKineMaui 8 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 The big key for the 97 and 98 teams was not the toughness at all. It was having a high skill level combined with tough guys WHO COULD PLAY. Shanny, Vladdie, Homer, McCarty, Lapointe all were tough guys who played very well in those Cup runs. Skilled guy who performed well, yet could also be described as the 'gonna pound you through the glass and punch you in the teeth' tough guys. .....yet somehow the big key was not toughness at all. No toughness at all. Not the toughness. Not at all. Please make up your mind. aloha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mudvayneowns91 0 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 It's a very similar style team to what they had in the early-to mid-90s. All finesse, no grit. Of course, those early/mid-90s teams didn't win much in the playoffs, just like the last 3 seasons. two cups in those 10 years, not bad any way you slice it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feldmarschall 9 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 .....yet somehow the big key was not toughness at all. No toughness at all. Not the toughness. Not at all. Please make up your mind. aloha Don't play retarded and pull the semantics card, you're smart enough that you can see what he meant. A lot of people around here think an enforcer and a gritty guy can change the entire team while playing five minutes per night and bringing nothing to the table aside from the occasional fight. Point being made is that it's not at all about one-dimensional toughness in one guy combined with one-dimensional finesse in another, blended ad nauseum. We formerly had a good combination of players that had both attributes, and they were major contributors in our cup runs. Players like that are uncommon in the league at any given time, and we're totally lacking in them right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Seriously, stop posting. Who's Jager anyway? You're such a fukk tard! Here you go dumbass Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 You're such a fukk tard! Here you go dumbass Tell us Sandy, what's the weather like on your home planet of Buttf***ed-s***forbrains? Do you often get headaches and have to cure them by hitting yourself with a hammer? If not, what is your explaination for your frankly unbelievably low level of displayed cogitation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Did somebody get their bowls in an uproar....? Just don't be stupid, please. Edited February 26, 2007 by MrSandMan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Did somebody get their bowls in an uproar....? Well now, I'd hate to for my cookware to be upset. That would really be "osmething." Just don't be stupid, please. Coming from the genius who's already proven he's the pinnacle of wit for posting "hur hur hollend trade first pick olo" this one really stings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Tunbo Batman Report post Posted February 26, 2007 just so you know, the Wings are the best playoff team since 1994. they have cleared 20 rounds and have 100 wins. the closest team is "gasp" the Avs with 17 rounds. Heh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted February 26, 2007 Well now, I'd hate to for my cookware to be upset. That would really be "osmething." Coming from the genius who's already proven he's the pinnacle of wit for posting "hur hur hollend trade first pick olo" this one really stings. Either you're a very funny troll or a really, REALLY stupid person. Do us a favor, don't breed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
