Bertuzzi ethics... help settle an argument

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Not really, loosen your chinstrap a bit. Obviously I'm saying Mac was more justified. When a guy goes for an open ice check, he sometimes has to lunge a bit if the guy tries to evade it. The intent is to try to still make contact with guy and not miss him and look dumb. Maybe the guy hits high or knees him, ok? A vicious hit from behind shows intent to injure, no two ways about it. There's no comparing the two hits. Look at the results. Naslund had a small cut and a mild concussion, Draper needed reconstructive surgery; no call for Moore vs a match penalty and a (too short) suspension. The time in between the hit on Draper and the Mac beating of Lemieux had to do with them not playing again until the following year. Nothing but frontier justice was needed in this case, I don't mind saying it.

I think the Moore thing could have been avoided if the refs called it or if the Av's didn't spank the Nucks so badly at home. Also, Bertuzzi chased Moore all around the ice--I remember thinking "he better turn and fight."

Don't worry bub. My chinstrap is loosened plenty and I wear really short-cuffed gloves so i'm ready to rock n roll.

I'm not saying the 2 hits are the same. Obviously they are not. You should never hit a guy whose numbers you can clearly read. That's not the point.

The point is that you can't justify a sucker punch by saying the guy who got suckered deserved it for hitting a guy from behind.

Hockey players don't care if you hit their star from behind, the side, below, if you do a Superfly Snucka on them from the top rope or whatever. You hit a team's star or do something to hurt somebody on another team and you are going to get a beat down. You can't say that because Moore's hit was clean there shouldn't have been any retribution on him. There's a basic hockey principle that states you do not run a team's best players or captain, even if its clean. And the code states that if you do that you can expect to wear a big, phat bullseye on your back forever until the day comes when somebody hands you your lunch.

Did Lemieux deserve what he got? Hell yeah. Did Moore? He didn't deserve a broken neck but he deserved to get his ass beat down. That's the code. Moore new it. He fought Matt Cooke I believe on his very first shift that next game. Now some have argued that that should've been the end all of it and maybe it should have but that's not the case. Moore doesn't get to decide when he's paid his due. If Brad May or Bertuzzi or anybody else wanted a piece of him he was just going to have to deal with it. Unfortunately he didn't deal with it and we all know what happened.

I just don't like to see Wings fans justify anything our guys do in retribution like our s*** doesn't stink. That's homerism at its worst.

[The Enforcer 13]

The league should've had the guts to stand up and suspend him for life. He got a token suspension and then the lockout. That was it!!!.

He should've never been allowed to lace 'em up ion the NHL again. Let him go overseas.

Knee jerk reaction.

[redwing711 0]

Agreed..... I always get so frustrated at people who take such pro-Moore extremes as to say Bertuzzi is a violent criminal, who should never play hockey again, who should be in jail, etc. Todd has paid his dues in full, he has issued a very sincere apology, and has put up with the scrutinizing media for a long time.

I have a lot of respect for how he has handled the situation over the past three years, contra Steve Moore who has ignored the apology, instead opting to take it to the courts thinking he can make more money there than he could at hockey.....a cheap shot in itself as far as I'm concerned....

I'm not pro-Moore, don't like the guy any more than I like Bertuzzi. However, I don't believe the punishment fit the act. All I hear is people trying to defend what he did because he was on the ice when he did it. If he were in a bar brawl he'd have to pay and why should the consequences be any different because he did it on the ice.

I do agree, though that the issue has been settle as far as the NHL is concerned and since there is nothing to be done about it, there really is no point in constantly rehashing the same argument.

[eva unit zero 271]

The other thing is, Lemieux decided to fight whereas Moore ran away.

Moore did not run away.

Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier in that same game.

Moore was paying attention to the play and had begun to skate up ice with the play and away from Bertuzzi whe nbertuzzi yanked on his jersey, punched him in the back of the head, and drove him to the ice face first, breaking his neck.

Had Moore been running away, he likely would have went to the bench the moment Bertuzzi challenged him, rather than simply ignoring him and playing hockey, as he did. Moore figured Bertuzzi was just yapping and that he wouldn't go nuts on him (as happened).

With Lemieux, Lemieux KNEW some form of retribution was coming, and that McCarty would be involved. Even if he did sort of get jumped, it wasn't on the unexpected level that Bertuzzi was.

[WendelClark 0]

I'm not pro-Moore, don't like the guy any more than I like Bertuzzi. However, I don't believe the punishment fit the act. All I hear is people trying to defend what he did because he was on the ice when he did it. If he were in a bar brawl he'd have to pay and why should the consequences be any different because he did it on the ice.

I do agree, though that the issue has been settle as far as the NHL is concerned and since there is nothing to be done about it, there really is no point in constantly rehashing the same argument.

Its assanine to compare off to on the ice antics. By your logic, kocur mac probert and every other fighter would be serving life sentences for how many 'fights' they had, because if they did this in a bar and had that many assualt chargers rapped up, bye bye. Just let that sink in.

Fighting and even dirty, sometimes very dirty attacks are just apart of hockey. If thats too real for you, hockey is not your sport! The runs at guys faces with the shoulder as they lift up are way way way more dangerous and wrong than punching a guy that ran from you.

Im having a hard time listening to these super conservatives that talk about life suspensions. Get real, the actual attack prob deserved a 5game suspension at most. The injury and after effect was pure fluke.

Someone explain to me these guys that go headhunting with thier shoulders and concuss/end careers dont even get penalties on these checks.

IF YOU BAN FOR LIFE EVERY GUY THAT TOOK A RUN OR CHEAPSHOT IN HOCKEY YOU WOULD HAVE NO LEAGUE :!:

[Wingsfan31 0]

I'm not pro-Moore, don't like the guy any more than I like Bertuzzi. However, I don't believe the punishment fit the act. All I hear is people trying to defend what he did because he was on the ice when he did it. If he were in a bar brawl he'd have to pay and why should the consequences be any different because he did it on the ice.

I do agree, though that the issue has been settle as far as the NHL is concerned and since there is nothing to be done about it, there really is no point in constantly rehashing the same argument.

The problem is violence is encouraged in hockey and football, not neccesarily fighting but certainly hitting, with the goal to eliminate a player from the play or intimidate him. This is the reason prosecutors have been leery of pressing charges for incidents that occur in a sporting venue, within the confines of the action on the ice. Obviously the Pacers-Pistons brawl was different because the players decided to enter the stands, thereby changing the circumstances. I think the same would eb doen if an NHLer went into the stands after a fan.

I for one encourage fighting in the NHL as a deterrent. The stickwork and cheapshots have grown in the league as fighting has been reduced. Players no longer have to own up for their cheapshots. The Bertuzzi thing was obviously different as Moore did fight and ante up for his cheapshot of Naslund. Bert clearly lost it and was punished within the rules of the league. The NHL got an easy out as the next season was a wash due to the lockout and they counted that season as a suspensed season for Bert as well.

However, one has to wonder if the Bert punch didn't lead to Moore breaking his neck if we would even be having this conversation right now. I've always been an advocate of punishing the intent, not the result. To go off on a minor tangent, I believe attempted murder and murder are the same thing, you just didn't succeed in your goal, but you sure as hell tried. So, if Bert is guilty of assault, then every guy who hits someone from behind, late or in the head needs to be prosecuted for assault as well. Or, perhaps the criminal courts should stay out of the sports realm and let the league and/or the civil courts handle incidents that occur on the ice.

[Inultus 12]

Moore's neck was fractured by the rest of the Avs jumping on top of Bertuzzi, not from the punch... (proven fact)

I would LOVE to see your source for this statement.

[dicksmack 33]

Moore did not run away.

Moore fought Matt Cooke earlier in that same game.

Moore was paying attention to the play and had begun to skate up ice with the play and away from Bertuzzi whe nbertuzzi yanked on his jersey, punched him in the back of the head, and drove him to the ice face first, breaking his neck.

Had Moore been running away, he likely would have went to the bench the moment Bertuzzi challenged him, rather than simply ignoring him and playing hockey, as he did. Moore figured Bertuzzi was just yapping and that he wouldn't go nuts on him (as happened).

With Lemieux, Lemieux KNEW some form of retribution was coming, and that McCarty would be involved. Even if he did sort of get jumped, it wasn't on the unexpected level that Bertuzzi was.

Bertuzzi chased Moore up and down the ice, challenging him to a fight, not inviting him to dance. Moore might have suspected he was about to be clobbered and might have done better to protect himself. Hard to say, but so what? You've grabbed a few words out of context. My main contention was with the comparison above between the Lemieux and Moore hits. I think the Lemieux hit shows much more culpability. There certainly can be a dirty way to attempt an open ice hit but it's harder to tell intent to injure as compared to a hit from behind. A hit from behind into the boards is probably the most dangerous move in hockey and everyone knows it's taboo.

[Wingsfan31 0]

I would LOVE to see your source for this statement.

If you watch the video, you can see what I and others have perceived as Bert trying to shield Moore's head from the crush of Avs players coming for him. I don't think that you can assert the Avs players are what caused the neck injury, but it certainly didn't help. I doesn't change the fact that if bert hadn't rabbit punched Moore in the head, none if it would have happened in the first place but it, IMO, it does refute the image of Bert as a bloodthirsty goon hell-bent on breaking Moore in two.

[wingslogo19 281]

I would LOVE to see your source for this statement.

So your saying the punch broke his neck?

[motorcitykid 42]

Why all the disagreements?

In a few short months, he'll walk in free agency and we won't have to hear from him again.

[Guest paveldatsukthenextsavard]

any red wing fan that has anything bad to say about that hit on Moore is a hypocrite, because i can guarantee that none of you were bitching when Mac beat the crap out of claude....and please don't say that it wasn't that bad, the only difference in that incident was that claude got lucky and didn't get seriously hurt....

or bertuzzi got unlucky and his hit did cause an injury

[Inultus 12]

So your saying the punch broke his neck?

I don't really know whether it was the fall to the ice or people jumping on him...but either way I'd love to see how it is a "proven fact" that it was people jumping on him that hurt him.

[wingslogo19 281]

I don't really know whether it was the fall to the ice or people jumping on him...but either way I'd love to see how it is a "proven fact" that it was people jumping on him that hurt him.

Ok think about it, as i was at the game.. Yes he was out already after Bert punched him, but you can't tell me that it helps with about 5 guys jumping on top and dragging moore's head on the ice