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kronwall

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I would like to see kronner put with a different partner - put him with a more defensive minded partner, Markov, Cheli maybe that would help. Like it has been said bad turnovers REPEATEDLY, bad positioning etc. it has already been said. I will give him some time but not the pedestal. Move Lebda up - he has shown improvement. Why does he play so much better on the world stage than the NHL? Different pairing, ice surface ??? The AHL is the AHL - minor leagues- don't mean squat up here - just ask Calder. Why doesn't the coaching staff seem to do anything apparent or if they are it isn't working demote him light a fire.

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Agreed, and he's still young and injury-prone... needs some more time.

Agreed. Generally, dmen take a lot longer to develop than forwards. Look at Rusy Klesla. Here's a former top pick who looked like he was a giant bust. But this year he really came on the scene and it looks like he could be one of the best defensemen in the leauge for the next decade. Even Pronger was horrible to begin with. Give Kronwall time.

You also have to take into consideration that Schneider has been eating a lot of PP time (where most points come for dmen). Next season #23 won't be around and you'll see Kroner take that next step.

I don't know if he'll be HOF material but I think it's realistic to think he can be a 50+ point defender who has the ability to change a game with a big hit and can move the puck out of his zone with the best of them.

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We haven't seen anything out of Kronwall because he doesn't have the opportunity to rush the puck when he's paired with Schneider. He's the guy who hangs back in the pair, and lets Schneider go up the ice and take chances. When Kronwall becomes our #2 powerplay guy and hooks up with a partner like Markov or maybe even Quincey next year, he'll be able to show what he can do.

That said, his play lately hasn't been great at all. He's been awful at times. But hanging the bust tag on him at this point is way too soon. He's oozes talent, he's just got to put it together.

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Kronwall has arguably been the worst defenseman on the team right now. Come on, you don't see his constant givaways and never staying in position? And this all supposed to be Schneiders fault? Wow, I thought I heard it all.

I have NEVER see Kronwall play fantastic. When has he ever played even mildly good?

OH WAIT HE HITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

His hits, when he actually is able to line somebody up, are so few and far between that if this is his good quality then he really sucks. This year he had the big hit on Lupul. Last year it was on Jay McClemant of St. Louis. One huge hit a year doesn't make him a good defenseman. He has a few other ok hits from time to time, but that is really overshadowed by constant givaways and mental breakdowns.

And don't even think about throwing the cliche "Well he's always injured and this is first season" line because I don't want to here it. Jesse Wallin, when he still played here, was injured as much as Kronwall. Did we give him the amount of chances that we're giving Kronwall now? No. So what makes Kronwall any different? Tell me, what?

Kronwall is 26, and hasn't shown dick. How much more leverage do we give him?

If you haven't seen anything from Kronwall then maybe you haven't been watching.

As I said, his decision making isn't what it needs to be, but even aside from the hitting, at least once every game I've seen, he shows flashes of the talent that has the Red Wings so high on him.

Even in the loss to Boston, the Wings were able to run a set play and get a great scoring chance in spite of the Bruins playing the trap, because of Kronwall's mobility and passing from his own end.

This is his first full season on the Wings. (I don't understand why that's not a valid argument with you, considering it's the truth) I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

My major concern with Kronwall is all the freak injuries he's had already in his short career. If that continues, he may never be able to put it all together.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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He's oozes talent...

What talent? What exactly are Kronwall's talents?

I'm sorry to single you out because this is really a question for all those people that come in here making general statements like that. "He's definitely a top 4 defenseman." "He's way better than XYZ." "He's got all sorts of talent." As if this talent is so glaringly obvious that we all see it too.

But I don't. Will someone please detail to me exactly what Kronwall's talents are?

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What talent? What exactly are Kronwall's talents?

I'm sorry to single you out because this is really a question for all those people that come in here making general statements like that. "He's definitely a top 4 defenseman." "He's way better than XYZ." "He's got all sorts of talent." As if this talent is so glaringly obvious that we all see it too.

But I don't. Will someone please detail to me exactly what Kronwall's talents are?

I would say they are his mobility, puck movement, good offensive skills, and good hitting for such a small guy.

If I were to criticize Kronwall for anything, it would be trying to do too much--trying to make the big hit or the big play when he should be making the simple outlet pass or hanging back in coverage. He needs to pay more attention to how Lidstrom picks his spots.

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Agreed. Generally, dmen take a lot longer to develop than forwards. Look at Rusy Klesla. Here's a former top pick who looked like he was a giant bust. But this year he really came on the scene and it looks like he could be one of the best defensemen in the leauge for the next decade. Even Pronger was horrible to begin with. Give Kronwall time.

Wait a minute though. If you are comparing his development to someone like Pronger (I know you are not making that direct comparison, but let's pretend), when Pronger was Kronwall's age, didn't he already have a Hart, Norris and 2 plus/minus awards under his belt?

There should come a point in time where he is no longer a young guy that we just need to give him time to see how he develops. I am not saying that is now, I know he has barely played a full season in the NHL (actually hasn't yet). To be honest, at 26 years old now, the fact that this is his first full season in the NHL is a bit of a concern to me.

I am definately not trying to knock him or write him off, but I am certainly not yet sold on him being a star in the future. He certainly is not worth his contract right now and obviously management is banking on the contract being a bargain in the long run, we'll have to wait and see how things go.

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There shouldn't be any excuses for the way Kronwall is playing. He is/was a very talented player and his numbers should be way better. In 2004 he played 20 games with the Wings and had 1 goal, 1 assist. In 2006 he played in 27 games and had 1 goal, 8 assists. And in 2007 so far he has played in 59 games and has 1 goal and 19 assists. I'm starting to see a pattern, and it's not looking good. Also I agree with the mask issue, he has had that thing on forever, take it off already. I have been way, way more impressed with Lebda this year than Kronwall.

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Kronwall has to keep the mask on until the doctors tell him to take it off.

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I agree that the contract isn't justified by his play this season.

He's not playing 3M hockey.

But then, that's perhaps a reason contracts should be kept from the public in the future. A lot of whining about players is related to their compensation.

IF we didn't know Lang cost ~4M, would we rag so much about him? If we didn't know Chelios was making league minimum, would we have as much patience?

This isn't a huge deal with the current Red Wings, but reading other fan boards really makes you think... think about Theodore for instance. If nobody knew his contract, would anybody really care about him losing his starting job?

A tad OT, I know.

Kronwall does not, currently, make $3m per year.

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Kronwall does not, currently, make $3m per year.

True. I intentionally neglected that fact, because his _future_ contract numbers seems to be a point of concern to a lot of posters.

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This is his first full season on the Wings. (I don't understand why that's not a valid argument with you, considering it's the truth) I'm not ready to give up on him yet.

Why should it be a valid argument? Again, I go back to Wallin as an example. He had injury problems, and wasn't very good in his first season here. So why did we not cut any slack for him but we do for Kronwall?

Granted, Wallin only played 32 games, but it's still the same situation. Why cut Kronwall slack? Because of what he did in the AHL and in international tournaments? Those are different leagues all together.

I also want to say this: somebody needs to do something about Kronwalls horrendous play, especially over the last few games. I suggest benching him. He deserves it.

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I also want to say this: somebody needs to do something about Kronwalls horrendous play, especially over the last few games. I suggest benching him. He deserves it.

That is one approach.

The other approach is to hope he can play himself out of the funk.

Nobody here's saying he cannot be benched. Anyone can be benched. Call Babs and have him do it.

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Nobody here's saying he cannot be benched. Anyone can be benched. Call Babs and have him do it.

You have his number?

:D

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He's had 59 games to play himself out of this funk. According to his previous statistics he should have at least 2 goals by now. He is just not performing to his talent level. Or at least to his perceived talent level. I would still rather have him in the lineup than Lilja. I think his full cage is going to turn into a Maltby thing. Remember he had to wear the visor because of his eye injury. That was like a decade ago.

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kronwall's main problem is that he thinks he's more talented than he is, that or he doesn't respect the talent of the players he faces. he rushes the puck when he should stay back and be sound possitionally, he tries to set up plays that are picked off easily when he should just make the simple pass, he goes for the "big hit" when he should be sitting back. i do see his talent. but unfortunately he isn't able to put it together. also, he is injury prone, which sucks.

i haven't been impressed with him much at all this season. he should be laying back and learning the ropes instead of trying to make the big plays because at this juncture he is much more of a liability than an asset when he's trying to make the big plays. that's the main reason lebda (well, that and his speed) has been, imo, a better d-man this year. lebda's improved throughout the year and has taken time and learned from the old guys. kronwall hasn't improved this year, imo. anyway, that's my two cents.

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Again, I go back to Wallin as an example. He had injury problems, and wasn't very good in his first season here. So why did we not cut any slack for him but we do for Kronwall?

Wallin was never voted the AHL's Top Defensemen (during a lockout when he would have been playing against more NHL quality players, as Kronwall has) nor was he selected as the Tournament MVP on a Gold-Medal winnig World Championship team.

I think that along with the fact that Kronwall is a much better skater/passer/hitter than Wallin could have hoped to have been might be why the Wings are giving him a little more time than Wallin.

Plus Wallin was projected as a stay-at-home 5th or 6th defensive defensmen - those are much easier to come by than a "potential" top 2-pairing.

And while I agree that Kronwall has looked like he has hit a plateau the past month or so, I find the comparisons to Wallin to be a little ridiculous.

Edited by Sepster

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Wallin was never voted the AHL's Top Defensemen (during a lockout when he would have been playing against more NHL quality players, as Kronwall has) nor was he selected as the Tournament MVP on a Gold-Medal winnig World Championship team.

I think that along with the fact that Kronwall is a much better skater/passer/hitter than Wallin could have hoped to have been might be why the Wings are giving him a little more time than Wallin.

Plus Wallin was projected as a stay-at-home 5th or 6th defensive defensmen - those are much easier to come by than a "potential" top 2-pairing.

And while I agree that Kronwall has looked like he has hit a plateau the past month or so, I find the comparisons to Wallin to be a little ridiculous.

Whatever. :rolleyes:

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He has to wear the mask longer because the injury was not a superficial laceration. The lac invovled deeper tissues ? cartilage that takes longer to heal and increase the risk of reopening if trauma to area happened again. AHL trpohies don't mean squat - this is the NHL; not the minors. He needs to be taken down a notch/demoted - give him to Chedli. Grandpa can help him.

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Why should it be a valid argument? Again, I go back to Wallin as an example. He had injury problems, and wasn't very good in his first season here. So why did we not cut any slack for him but we do for Kronwall?

Granted, Wallin only played 32 games, but it's still the same situation. Why cut Kronwall slack? Because of what he did in the AHL and in international tournaments? Those are different leagues all together.

I also want to say this: somebody needs to do something about Kronwalls horrendous play, especially over the last few games. I suggest benching him. He deserves it.

What does Kronwall have to do with Wallin?

I don't care what Kronwall did in the AHL either.

I think calling his play horrendous is a bit of an overstatement. The Wings were poor defensively as a team the last few games. Kronwall was no better.

He's not the Lilja-like defenseman people in this thread are making him out to be. And the comparisons to Lebda are apples to oranges. Give Lebda 6 more minutes a game and put him against the better lines and see what his numbers look like.

And to correct something that has been misstated several times in this thread, Kronwall is not making $3 million a year. He currently makes $1.14 million, and is worth that amount of money. Next season he makes 1.5, then it jumps up to $3 million in 2008/09.

So he's still got all of next year, then at the start of the 2008/09 season people can accurately start complaining that he's not worth $3 million.

Like I said before, he's got the skills but he hasn't put it all together yet. I think the Wings are smart in locking him up long term because if he lives up to his potential, Kronwall will be a bargain compared to what it would cost to bring in someone of equal value to the team.

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He's not the Lilja-like defenseman people in this thread are making him out to be. And the comparisons to Lebda are apples to oranges. Give Lebda 6 more minutes a game and put him against the better lines and see what his numbers look like.

Are you not noticeing the givaways he makes? In this recent stretch, he's looking more and more like Lilja.

Ok, Kronwall doens't turtle like Lilja. And he is (somewhat) more physical. But come on. Just watch him closely. Many of his attempted passes out of the zone usually result in a turnover. He has yet to do anything to really impress me.

And where is this offense that people speak of? ONE GOAL. Right now, he's on pace to have less goals than Lilja did last year. And even though Lilja did play all 82 games, does that really matter in his case?

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Are you not noticeing the givaways he makes? In this recent stretch, he's looking more and more like Lilja.

Ok, Kronwall doens't turtle like Lilja. And he is (somewhat) more physical. But come on. Just watch him closely. Many of his attempted passes out of the zone usually result in a turnover. He has yet to do anything to really impress me.

And where is this offense that people speak of? ONE GOAL. Right now, he's on pace to have less goals than Lilja did last year. And even though Lilja did play all 82 games, does that really matter in his case?

I see the giveaways, but he's still nowhere near Lilja.

I try not to complain about Lilja because he's already such the whipping boy around here, but every game I see he makes a startlingly bad play. A giveaway at the blueline that leads to a breakaway. Taking a horrible penalty. Looking lost out there.

Kronwall is nowhere near Lilja.

I never said anything about Kronwall's offense, other than his potential.

All I can say is this one last time:

It's his first full season in the NHL (he's played a career 106 games).

He makes $1.14 million (compared to Lilja's $1 mill).

He has the potential to be a great defenseman for the Wings for years to come.

In the salary cap era, I think they did the right thing in locking him up long term and hoping he meets his potential.

With Fischer gone, the only defensemen they have under 30 years old are Lebda and Kronner. Who's going to fill the ice time of Chelios (45), Lidstrom(36), and Schneider(37) when they retire or aren't re-signed? It'd cost too much to replace all those guys by bringing players in from other teams. Have you seen what a solid d-man usually goes for?

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I see the giveaways, but he's still nowhere near Lilja.

I try not to complain about Lilja because he's already such the whipping boy around here, but every game I see he makes a startlingly bad play. A giveaway at the blueline that leads to a breakaway. Taking a horrible penalty. Looking lost out there.

Kronwall is nowhere near Lilja.

I never said anything about Kronwall's offense, other than his potential.

All I can say is this one last time:

It's his first full season in the NHL (he's played a career 106 games).

He makes $1.14 million (compared to Lilja's $1 mill).

He has the potential to be a great defenseman for the Wings for years to come.

In the salary cap era, I think they did the right thing in locking him up long term and hoping he meets his potential.

With Fischer gone, the only defensemen they have under 30 years old are Lebda and Kronner. Who's going to fill the ice time of Chelios (45), Lidstrom(36), and Schneider(37) when they retire or aren't re-signed? It'd cost too much to replace all those guys by bringing players in from other teams. Have you seen what a solid d-man usually goes for?

Fine. You have a point.

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