Rankings: how teams have retired numbers.

[Shanahan14 0]

i agree with no shanahan or federov although if shanahan does get it, i wont be crying about it

[Copenhagen848 58]

Is Yzerman mare deserving that Sergie or Shanny? Yes. But is Nick? No. What has Nick done in Detroit that is so special, that Shanny and Sergei haven't? The only thing he has on them is playing a few more years with the team, and wearing the 'C'. And, you can't count that against them as they aren't here to even be considered for the 'C'.

I know many people won't agree with me, but it's just my opinion so I don't care.

IMO Lidstrom has not yet achieved number retiring status. Yes he is a great defenseman, but (again IMO), he is not even close to the same caliber of "captain" as Stevie. The one element, probably the most important element, that I feel Lidstrom is missing is heart. When I watch Lidstrom play, I just don't see the heart that was obvious EVERY night with Stevie. Again like I said he is a great defenseman, but he doesn't even come close to filling Stevie's skates IMO. I am still not used to seeing Lidstrom wearing Stevie's "C". But then again, I don't think I'll ever be 100% happy with any present or future Red Wing wearing the "C" after watching Stevie for the majority of my life. IMO there is no better figure as a professional athlete and leader than Steve Yzerman.

I can't express my opinion of the other numbers hanging because I've never seen them play.

[Airborn 0]

Sergie left because the Wings wouldn't pay him, plane and simple. He deserved A LOT more than the Wings were offering. Can't blame him.

The Wings actually offered more money to Sergei than Anaheim. He left because he didn't want to play in Stevie's shadow anymore.

Federov was a great player for the Wings; I will always love him for his time with Detroit, but he doesn't deserve his jersey being retired. He gave up that privlidge when he chose to leave.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

More great things? What did Yzerman do that was so great before he won the cups? And after? I'll give you wearing the C. But you can't hold that against Sergei and Shanny. Nor can you count what Yzerman did in international play (mind you Shanny played with him and won gold as well) as reason why his Red Wings 19 should be retired.

Is Yzerman mare deserving that Sergie or Shanny? Yes. But is Nick? No. What has Nick done in Detroit that is so special, that Shanny and Sergei haven't? The only thing he has on them is playing a few more years with the team, and wearing the 'C'. And, you can't count that against them as they aren't here to even be considered for the 'C'.

There's Lidstrom's Conn Smythe and 4 Norris trophies (hopefully soon to be 5), along with runner up to the Norris three times. So for 7 years he was considered one of the top two defenseman in the league.

You could make a better case for Fedorov with his Hart and Selke and years with the team, but I still don't see him getting his jersey retired.

The bottom line is that years from now, people will be talking about Yzerman and Lidstrom as among the greats. Shanny and Fedorov are talented players, but not among the greats.

oh and what else did Yzerman do besides the Cups?

The Lester B Pearson Award, the Conn Smythe trophy (he would've had two but Vernon won by two votes in '97), the Selke trophy.

6th in NHL history in points.

8th in goals

7th in assists

First in Wings history in assists, 2nd in points and goals (behind Gordie Howe).

One of five players to ever score more than 150 points in a season. Gretzky 215, Lemieux 199, then Stevie Y with 155.

Edited April 2, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[arnoldbuck 0]

nobody agrees with you. retiring his number league wide was a mistake. you can't force teams to honor a player who didn't play for them.

edit: spelling

I agree with it. I know most people on LGW's are very pro-Steve, and not necccessarily anti-Wayne, but when push comes to shove... we know who would win. I stand right in the middle. When I was very, very young Wayne was my hero, but as I got older Steve became my main man.

But Wayne revolutionized the NHL like no other person before or since. Regardless of what teams he played on, the league and the teams that are in it own a lot to the Great One.

- the number 99 became more than just his number, it became a symbol.

... and just for a second, imagine if someone were to come along and decide to wear #99, the goy woukd be destroyed but every fan, reporter and critic out there..

[HomeNugget 2]

1951-1952 He played 6 games in the AHL for Indianapolis Capitals. 3g, 6a, 4 PIM.

He did also play for the Wings that year.

well if that's the case take down stevie's as well because he used to play for the petes.

You can't compare anyone, even the other jersey retirees to Yzerman, he is in a class of his own.

i believe Delvecchio is in the same class. i actually think its more fair to say that Yzerman is in the same class as Delvecchio, not the other way around. Delvecchio came first so Delvecchio should be at the head of the class.

[grsbmd 0]

Have to agree with Redwinger on just about all of these. We're talking about the highest honor. It SHOULD be incredibly selective. I would use three criteria in selecting the player:

1 Were they a hall of fame level player

2. Did they spend either their entire career there (or at least a giant chunk)

3. Was the franchise successful during their tenure (doesn't have to be cups, but there has to have been success)

Kudos to Redwinger for a great post

I think there should be a 4th question here:

4. Is there any doubt in people's minds that this player deserves to have their number retired?

In 80 years, we've only retired 6 numbers. That's a really high standard and I think that if we have to debate whether a player deserves this honor, they probably don't.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

There's Lidstrom's Conn Smythe and 4 Norris trophies (hopefully soon to be 5), along with runner up to the Norris three times. So for 7 years he was considered one of the top two defenseman in the league.

You could make a better case for Fedorov with his Hart and Selke and years with the team, but I still don't see him getting his jersey retired.

The bottom line is that years from now, people will be talking about Yzerman and Lidstrom as among the greats. Shanny and Fedorov are talented players, but not among the greats.

oh and what else did Yzerman do besides the Cups?

The Lester B Pearson Award, the Conn Smythe trophy (he would've had two but Vernon won by two votes in '97), the Selke trophy.

6th in NHL history in points.

8th in goals

7th in assists

First in Wings history in assists, 2nd in points and goals (behind Gordie Howe).

One of five players to ever score more than 150 points in a season. Gretzky 215, Lemieux 199, then Stevie Y with 155.

When I said what did Yzerman do, I didn't mean individual stats. He couldn't take his team to the summit. And until Scotty came along, Sergie was a much more complete player. However, I am not going to sit here and argue about Yzerman vs Fedorov. What I am arguing is that using your logic, Cups and tenure are what matters, and both Shanny and Sergie have spent the majority of their careers with Detroit, they have won cups with Detroit, and their most prosperous years are with Detorit. And IMO they are up there with the greats. Sergie and Shanny both revolutionized their style of play.

well if that's the case take down stevie's as well because he used to play for the petes.

i believe Delvecchio is in the same class. i actually think its more fair to say that Yzerman is in the same class as Delvecchio, not the other way around. Delvecchio came first so Delvecchio should be at the head of the class.

At the time Alex played with the Caps, if my sources are correct, the AHL was a professional league, not juniors. And while I agree Delvecchio was a superb talent, and he was something special. I will diagree is putting him in the class with Stevie. Stevie is 'The Cap', Alex was a captian.

[HomeNugget 2]

When I said what did Yzerman do, I didn't mean individual stats. He couldn't take his team to the summit. And until Scotty came along, Sergie was a much more complete player. However, I am not going to sit here and argue about Yzerman vs Fedorov. What I am arguing is that using your logic, Cups and tenure are what matters, and both Shanny and Sergie have spent the majority of their careers with Detroit, they have won cups with Detroit, and their most prosperous years are with Detorit. And IMO they are up there with the greats. Sergie and Shanny both revolutionized their style of play.

didn't stevie recieve selke votes before scotty was here? i'm not really old enough to remember too many things pre-scotty, but i've always read that stevie was underrated defensively early in his career.

[redwinger4747 6]

When I said what did Yzerman do, I didn't mean individual stats. He couldn't take his team to the summit. And until Scotty came along, Sergie was a much more complete player. However, I am not going to sit here and argue about Yzerman vs Fedorov. What I am arguing is that using your logic, Cups and tenure are what matters, and both Shanny and Sergie have spent the majority of their careers with Detroit, they have won cups with Detroit, and their most prosperous years are with Detorit. And IMO they are up there with the greats. Sergie and Shanny both revolutionized their style of play.

At the time Alex played with the Caps, if my sources are correct, the AHL was a professional league, not juniors. And while I agree Delvecchio was a superb talent, and he was something special. I will diagree is putting him in the class with Stevie. Stevie is 'The Cap', Alex was a captian.

Its kind of pointless to try to analyze well, before player/coach X got here, they didn't win the cup. Players come and go all the time so you can say that about a lot of ppl. Hey, until Aaron Ward, came, we didn't win the cup...... Anyways, the point is Yzerman DID lead us to 3 cups, thats what HAPPENED. So he deserves every honor.

[HomeNugget 2]

At the time Alex played with the Caps, if my sources are correct, the AHL was a professional league, not juniors.

so?

And while I agree Delvecchio was a superb talent, and he was something special. I will diagree is putting him in the class with Stevie. Stevie is 'The Cap', Alex was a captian.

why can't they be in the same class? 23 seasons and 12 as captain can't be in the same class as Steve? why?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Case by case basis is probably best way to look at it.

Steve and Alex: Played their whole careers in Detroit, won lots of trophies, Cups, etc.

Gordie: Played a million billion years in Detroit, won everything, retired due to injury concerns but came back when he found out he could have a surgery. He went on to play hockey with both of his sons in the WHA.

Ted and Sid: Were on board for the 50's dynasty, but were traded. They were still Red Wings at heart, and both returned to Detroit once they had retired.

Terry: Was a huge part of the 50's dynasty, was traded, re-acquired, lost, came back, and on and on. He was always a Wing.

Nick: Has won everything, been apart of the Wings Cup wins, and looks to retire a Wing.

Sergei: Won everything, been apart of the Cup wins, left via free agency.

Brendan: The shortest tenured of all considered. Was the part of the Cup team that put them over the hump. Left via free agency.

There, that's everyone. Shouldn't be tough to see why the last two are the ones most often left off.

[elriqo28 2]

Gretzky is retired league wide!....as to honor the greatest player in the history of the league.

if anyone has already stated this...I was too lazy to read all the posts, so sorry.

Edited April 2, 2007 by elriqo28

[bogeygolfer 4]

I would agree that P. Esposito belongs, too; it's hard to imagine the Bruins in the 60s-70s without him.

I know a Montreal fan who thinks they've retired way too many numbers--he expects to see those three-digit numbers any day now!

ok, the habs have been in existance for about 100 years, in another 100 years if they double the amount they have now there are STILL tons of numbers to go around

you people need to learn to add

also, gretzky's number should not have been retired league-wide

[HomeNugget 2]

ok, the habs have been in existance for about 100 years, in another 100 years if they double the amount they have now there are STILL tons of numbers to go around

you people need to learn to add

i don't think they were serious. relax.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

so?

why can't they be in the same class? 23 seasons and 12 as captain can't be in the same class as Steve? why?

Steve Yzerman wore the 'C' for how many years? So unless Alex is going to pull a Gordie and unretire to play again, he will never be in the same class as Stevie.

[C-TownWing 0]

Except for dumping on Esposito, Dryden, Coffey and a couple others, that's a pretty good list.

Fedorov and Shanahan are the 4th and 8th leading scorers in Wings history. #s 1, 2, 3 and 7 have had their numbers retired, #5 (Lidstrom) will, and #6 (Norm Ullman) probably deserves consideration too. So does Red Kelly, IMO.

Here's an off-the-wall thought that I'm sure will get ripped: what about Chris Osgood? He doesn't have the hardware collection, but he's second in every major goalie statistical category behind Sawchuk in team history, actually has a slightly better GAA than him in a Wings uniform (2.43-2.46 coming into this season), and won two cups.

All of that said, Lidstrom's probably the only one of that group that ends up in the rafters, and I would be ok with that, even as much of a Shanafan as I am.

Other random thought: Why Yzerman's banner has a C on it is obvious, but what's kind of funny is that every banner up there except Sawchuk was a captain at some point of their Wings career. Including Nick if you want to think ahead. I wouldn't expect the four years served by Lindsay or Howe to be recognized on the banner, but recognizing Delvecchio's 11+ years of wearing the C might be appropriate.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

ok, the habs have been in existance for about 100 years, in another 100 years if they double the amount they have now there are STILL tons of numbers to go around

you people need to learn to add

also, gretzky's number should not have been retired league-wide

Three digit numbers was a joke, used to draw attention to teams retiring jerseys too much. I've ran across some pretty big tards on LGW, but I'm sure all of us here can manage counting to 99, and subtracting the number of retired jerseys to realize there are still enough left.

Geesh....

[HomeNugget 2]

Steve Yzerman wore the 'C' for how many years? So unless Alex is going to pull a Gordie and unretire to play again, he will never be in the same class as Stevie.

you can't hold that against Alex. Delvecchio didn't have to be the captain that early in his career because the team was loaded.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Except for dumping on Esposito, Dryden, Coffey and a couple others, that's a pretty good list.

Fedorov and Shanahan are the 4th and 8th leading scorers in Wings history. #s 1, 2, 3 and 7 have had their numbers retired, #5 (Lidstrom) will, and #6 (Norm Ullman) probably deserves consideration too. So does Red Kelly, IMO.

Here's an off-the-wall thought that I'm sure will get ripped: what about Chris Osgood? He doesn't have the hardware collection, but he's second in every major goalie statistical category behind Sawchuk in team history, actually has a slightly better GAA than him in a Wings uniform (2.43-2.46 coming into this season), and won two cups.

All of that said, Lidstrom's probably the only one of that group that ends up in the rafters, and I would be ok with that, even as much of a Shanafan as I am.

Other random thought: Why Yzerman's banner has a C on it is obvious, but what's kind of funny is that every banner up there except Sawchuk was a captain at some point of their Wings career. Including Nick if you want to think ahead. I wouldn't expect the four years served by Lindsay or Howe to be recognized on the banner, but recognizing Delvecchio's 11+ years of wearing the C might be appropriate.

While that makes Oz sound like one hell of a goalie, (just FYI I think he should be the starter) I don't think he has ever meant to a team what Sawchuck did to so many. Oz has never been a lights out goalie like Sawchuck was.

Yzerman is known as 'The Captian'. I believe he had the longest tenured 'C' in any sport, ever. That says something about him. Delvecchio was a great player, but he isn't on Yzermans level. Stevie is up there all alone.

you can't hold that against Alex. Delvecchio didn't have to be the captain that early in his career because the team was loaded.

No, you are wrong, I can, and DO hold it against him. He didn't get to wear the 'C' in those years because he wasn't the leader he needed to be. Stevie got it early, but he was a leader. Alex can't touch Stevie there. Stevie is the ultimate leader, and always will be.

[HomeNugget 2]

At the time Alex played with the Caps, if my sources are correct, the AHL was a professional league, not juniors.

i did a little web based research and found out that the Indy Caps were a minor league affiliate of the wings. i think we can agree that it wouldn't be fair to hold Delvecchio's time with this team against him.

http://pages.prodigy.net/oldchl/indycaps.htm

scroll to about the middle. its under general information.

While that makes Oz sound like one hell of a goalie, (just FYI I think he should be the starter) I don't think he has ever meant to a team what Sawchuck did to so many. Oz has never been a lights out goalie like Sawchuck was.

Yzerman is known as 'The Captian'. I believe he had the longest tenured 'C' in any sport, ever. That says something about him. Delvecchio was a great player, but he isn't on Yzermans level. Stevie is up there all alone

No, you are wrong, I can, and DO hold it against him. He didn't get to wear the 'C' in those years because he wasn't the leader he needed to be. Stevie got it early, but he was a leader. Alex can't touch Stevie there. Stevie is the ultimate leader, and always will be.

you don't know that Delvecchio wasn't as great a leader though. if Stevie was on the same team as Ted Lindsay or Red Kelly he wouldn't have been captain. if Stevie's career overlapped Delvecchio's he wouldn't have gotten the C until Alex retired.

Edited April 3, 2007 by HomeNugget

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

i did a little web based research and found out that the Indy Caps were a minor league affiliate of the wings. i think we can agree that it wouldn't be fair to hold Delvecchio's time with this team against him.

http://pages.prodigy.net/oldchl/indycaps.htm

scroll to about the middle. its under general information.

you don't know that Delvecchio wasn't as great a leader though. if Stevie was on the same team as Ted Lindsay or Red Kelly he wouldn't have been captain. if Stevie's career overlapped Delvecchio's he wouldn't have gotten the C until Alex retired.

Nice research, I agree, I was wrong about them being a minor league team.

However, just as you argue that I don't know what kind of leader Delvecchio was, you can't be certian that Stevie wouldn't have had the 'C'.

[HomeNugget 2]

Nice research, I agree, I was wrong about them being a minor league team.

However, just as you argue that I don't know what kind of leader Delvecchio was, you can't be certian that Stevie wouldn't have had the 'C'.

yes i can. it was delvecchio's team. the same as it was stevie's team in the 80's and 90's. its a completely hypothetical situation, but i think if Steve had been a rookie at the time Alex was playing and got the captaincy from him, it would be the same as if Hank got Steve's C before Steve retired. it would be a completely classless move by the orginization.

[Airborn 0]

I think there should be a 4th question here:

4. Is there any doubt in people's minds that this player deserves to have their number retired?

In 80 years, we've only retired 6 numbers. That's a really high standard and I think that if we have to debate whether a player deserves this honor, they probably don't.

Good one; I agree.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Toronto probably has the utterly worst philosphy. Honoring numbers, how stupid. Just be like everybody else and retire the numbers of players that deserve it. This is just my opinion, but nobody who ever plays in a Leafs jersey should wear Dave Keons or Darryl Sittlers numbers ever again.