Holland: Prices for Bertuzzi, Schneider & Markov high

[theman19 47]

If we don't bring back any of those guys I'm ok with it. Despite going to the Conference Finals last year, I would like to see the younger guys get the ice time, or grab a UFA or two.

Edit: Hey I was just thinking, does this mean we're signing Calder?

I hope so

you know it doesn't really list calder. He made a good deal of money last year. Wouldn't surprise me if he's one of these guys who's asking for a lot.

[evil204 4]

I find this hard to believe. Hasek, of all people, wouldn't hurt our chances to have the best team possible next year. Out of everyone on the team, he's probably the most determined to win the cup. I really didn't think he'd care about money at this point. If Hasek is seriously expecting a huge raise, screw him, trade for Bryzgalov.

As for Schneider, Bertuzzi, and Markov... I really can't imagine how high their demands are that Holland is so surprised. Schneider is old, Bertuzzi has a bad back, and Markov...he had nothing more than an average season, why would he be asking for a big raise?

[Production Line 1]

It could be just a ploy by Kenny...making all of them that he's speaking about them, which he very well might be doing...

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

As for Schneider, Bertuzzi, and Markov... I really can't imagine how high their demands are that Holland is so surprised. Schneider is old, Bertuzzi has a bad back, and Markov...he had nothing more than an average season, why would he be asking for a big raise?

Schneider may be up there in age but he's still an excellent player, and is still a very valuable part of this team. He had one of his best seasons this year so of course naturally he'd ask for a raise. Also, seeing Timmonen just get a 6.7 mil contract when he is nowhere near as good as Schneids is going to make him think hey, I'm better than that guy I deserve more money. Which is pretty much true. With that being said, I think in the end beause Schneids loves it so much here that he will stay and for less money. At least I hope so.

Bert's back shouldn't even be an concern anymore. He said himself it would take a couple months during the offseason for him to get back to 100% healthy so I'd stick with that. I don't even know how Bert is even issue right now. I heard several Wings saying how much he loves it here. He kept saying it's not about the money, that he wants to stay, and doesn't want to make anymore stops. I think soon he'll be signed, and at a really good price that's fair for both sides.

As for Markov. I wouldn't say he's had an 'average' season. I think he's had a fairly good one, and an even better post season. He was a beast out there in the playoffs and he too deserves a raise. I'd love to see him back, but not at a costly price.

Anyways, IMO Schneids is the most important. I do think he'll stay, same goes for Bert. Hasek is a given so I wouldn't even bring him up. Hoping that all 4 re-sign, but realistically, I'm thinking 2 or possibly three if all goes well will sign and soon.

Edited June 23, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[Andy Pred 48 337]

So if we do lose Matty, Dani and Bert along with Langs $ we have just gained about $12m in cap space.

We bring up Kindl and Quincey at roughly $1.2m to replace the D and Grigorenko coming in at $.8 to take

over Berts spot. This leaves us $10m to bring in a replacement for Lang ?

This saving could get us a top centre and also maybe a top 3 D man too.

I'll agree we may not get an offensively gifted player as Schneider but it should get us a good player.

Say $6-7m for the centre and $3-4m for the defenceman, or maybe this is Kenny's way of getting some new guys in.

[scotzman 29]

I really think Schneids needs to get a grip. Maybe he is waiting to see what happens with Neidermayer in Anaheim. If he wants to go, smell you later. Not really sure why Kenny cares about Markov... Dom also needs to get a life if he wants a huge raise (not that it says he does, but it says the price is "too high").

The one guy I really want to see back playing healthy is Bert. If we could just lock him up with an incentive laden contract, I would be really happy. I want to see what he can do... if he can stay healthy.

If these guys don't step up and sign soon, I say screw 'em and look for someone else or play the youngsters.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Dom also needs to get a life if he wants a huge raise (not that it says he does, but it says the price is "too high").

Yeah, who the hell asks for a raise based on incredible performance alone?

What we need Dom to realise is he's lucky to have such a nice bunch of chaps to play with and he should take whatever the hell we feel like giving him.

[Earthhuman 8]

So if we do lose Matty, Dani and Bert along with Langs $ we have just gained about $12m in cap space.

We bring up Kindl and Quincey at roughly $1.2m to replace the D and Grigorenko coming in at $.8 to take

over Berts spot. This leaves us $10m to bring in a replacement for Lang ?

This saving could get us a top centre and also maybe a top 3 D man too.

I'll agree we may not get an offensively gifted player as Schneider but it should get us a good player.

Say $6-7m for the centre and $3-4m for the defenceman, or maybe this is Kenny's way of getting some new guys in.

That looks real purty on paper.

But the bottom line is that we will not be as great as we were last year, except at center- there are much better choices than Lang. However, Kindl cannot fully replace an experience OLYPMIC player in Markov. Schneider is frankly one of the best on the market, which means we can ideally only sign someone pretty close.

Lidstrom is not slowing down but this could be the season that age begins to hit. Chelios is very smart but his game may take a downward turn. Lebda and Kronwall will be better, which should help offset that. Hasek will be back, for sure, but his effectiveness at his age may also decline.

Bertuzzi will probably not be back, you heard Holland, he would like to sign one for sure and we all know that's Hasek. Grigorenko is not a bad replacement though. In fact, he might just be the closest to what he is taking the spot of (giving Berts effectiveness with his back). But will he need time to adapt to the American game? You bet.

The silver lining is that we are still a playoff team (if we get said center and top 3 defenseman), and a division leader at that (who else).

Please feel free to find the holes in my argument, cause I know they're there and I'm just too tired to find them.

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

I've got full confidence in Kenny Holland that whatever happens , he'll make the Wings as strong if not even stronger than last season.

[vangvace 12]

Why are some of you giving up on Schneids and assuming things when we really don't even know what's going on or what is on his mind? Chill people. Just let Kenny do his job and we'll see what happens.

It's what we do isn't it?

Honestly there are going to be growing pains now that we're in the salary cap era. Even though it's a long way off, I'm more interested in what's going to happen at the trade deadline than now.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

AAAAAAAAAARGH!

This does not make me a happy camper, guess it should be expected to an extent thouh.

My thoughts on the three (not including Hasek b/c he's all but back pretty much) currently...

Schneider is the most important overall I think. I'm not going to say if he would've been in the Anaheim series, he would've ultimately been "the factor" in helping the Wings get to the Finals. We'll never know. However even as he gets up in age, he's still pretty valuable and productive on the offensive side of the game and QBing the defense on one power play unit. And even though he's far from a bruiser, he has some snarl and can throw a hit every now and then.

Markov is somebody who I really would like to keep here, a good stay at home guy who isn't afraid to hit and provided something the Wings had not enough of in recent seasons. Still, overall he's not as important to keep as Schneider, though I'd like to keep both somehow. Also, if Lilja can maintain the play he had more often than not in the playoffs, we have somebody like Markov already here.

Bertuzzi, man I just don't know. If his back can ever get better, I think he could be around a point-per-game player, and we saw glimpses of how solid he was built and hard to knock off the puck. A late regular season game at Columbus comes to mind where he and a Jackets player collided, and the Jackets player just went down cold.

I'd like all three back, but in order of importance to keep...

Schneider

Bertuzzi

Markov

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Cut Schneider. He's replaceable.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Does anyone else get the feeling they’ll try and re-sign Markov before Schneider? IMO if Schneider departs they’ll give Kindl a chance to make the roster, and seeing as though he almost made it last season he'd have to be a fair chance to make it in 2007/08.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Does anyone else get the feeling they’ll try and re-sign Markov before Schneider? IMO if Schneider departs they’ll give Kindl a chance to make the roster, and seeing as though he almost made it last season he'd have to be a fair chance to make it in 2007/08.

I've thought that, too. I like Markov - we need a little bit of snarl out there.

I also love Schneider, don't get me wrong. But also agree about Kindl getting a chance. Who says the off-season in hockey isn't interesting, eh?

[scotzman 29]

Yeah, who the hell asks for a raise based on incredible performance alone?

What we need Dom to realise is he's lucky to have such a nice bunch of chaps to play with and he should take whatever the hell we feel like giving him.

My point here is we shouldn't pay Dom $6 Million for a season (just using Jiggy as a reference). He played very well, but was he the best goalie in the playoffs? You can argue either side of that one, but I would say no. He gave us an opportunity to be in every game and even helped us stay in some of them.

Hasek had the third best GAA (1.79) still outstanding... the seventh best SV% (.923), also very nice. BUT for a guy with a tendency to hurt his groin (or decide he wants to retire halfway through the season) and is going to be 43 years old, how can you justify a contract that he "deserves"?

Cheli deserves to be payed quite a bit more than he makes, but somehow he gets the idea that he would rather take less and have a chance at what really matters. Unless Hasek is a total idiot when it comes to money, I'm sure he has enough.

Edited June 23, 2007 by scotzman

[larionov_8 12]

Lidstrom, Chelios, Kronwall, Lilja, Lebda...and Kindl?

Frankly I'm not convinced Kindl is NHL ready. I'd rather see someone with experience filling that spot. That leaves Quincey as the 7th man.

My point is that Detroit ought to be bringing someone into the fold, whether its one of these guys or someone else on the market. But I certainly wouldn't want to see them get the sort of money that was dolled out to players such as Timonen and, previously, McCabe.

As for Hasek, he might want a raise, but I would guess his salary would remain relatively low. An obvious replacement would be Raycroft, if it came to that - my guess is that he could be had cheaply from the Leafs at this point. Not totally sure about Osgood's contract status, but my impression is that he also was on a one-year deal.

[scotzman 29]

Lidstrom, Chelios, Kronwall, Lilja, Lebda...and Kindl?

Frankly I'm not convinced Kindl is NHL ready. I'd rather see someone with experience filling that spot. That leaves Quincey as the 7th man.

My point is that Detroit ought to be bringing someone into the fold, whether its one of these guys or someone else on the market. But I certainly wouldn't want to see them get the sort of money that was dolled out to players such as Timonen and, previously, McCabe.

As for Hasek, he might want a raise, but I would guess his salary would remain relatively low. An obvious replacement would be Raycroft, if it came to that - my guess is that he could be had cheaply from the Leafs at this point. Not totally sure about Osgood's contract status, but my impression is that he also was on a one-year deal.

I think the Wings believe Kindl is ready, but we'll see.

If Dom wants to break the bank, just friggin' play Howard and Ozzie. If it doesn't work look to pick up a tender at the deadline. Ozzie is a fine goaltender and can get us through the season just fine. I mean, look at our weak ass division now that Nashville is having a fire sale... we are still going to get a ton of points within our division. Howard has to play eventually, doesn't he?

EDIT: Spelling

Edited June 23, 2007 by scotzman

[puckloo39 5,686]

My point here is we shouldn't pay Dom $6 Million for a season (just using Jiggy as a reference). He played very well, but was he the best goalie in the playoffs? You can argue either side of that one, but I would say no. He gave us an opportunity to be in every game and even helped us stay in some of them.

Hasek had the third best GAA (1.79) still outstanding... the seventh best SV% (.923), also very nice. BUT for a guy with a tendency to hurt his groin (or decide he wants to retire halfway through the season) and is going to be 43 years old, how can you justify a contract that he "deserves"?

Cheli deserves to be payed quite a bit more than he makes, but somehow he gets the idea that he would rather take less and have a chance at what really matters. Unless Hasek is a total idiot when it comes to money, I'm sure he has enough.

Dom won't expect $6M, and an idiot is far from what he is. You really don't know by now that he's not playing for the money? The rest of the unsigned players need to take less to stay in Detroit, take Dom's example, if they want the team to stay intact. If the Wings want to win, they need to look back at 2002 and see that key players took reductions in salary, in order to get the players they needed to win. Dom is doing it, where is everyone else?

As for what Dom "deserves," none of them deserve as much money as they make. I think fair is fair, however -- and for Dom to be the only one singled out to take a financial hit, while everyone else waltzes off with 3x or 4x the money he's paid, especially considering the role he's expected to play, is not right.

Dom is no more likely to get hurt than Bert (who got paid how much?), Kronwall, Zetterberg... make a list. Dom was completely healthy last season except for two or three games... the old, sad argument for him taking less money because of his groin has just about worn out, I think . Let's see Bert play for $750,000 because of his back, or Kronner return half his salary since he can't stay uninjured for more than a game or two at a time... doubt that will happen, either.

Raycroft can't "replace" Dom. The Wings can't find anyone else out there for the money they are willing to pay Hasek who can do half the job he can. He knows it, and that's why he agreed to come back. Kenny will get it done. And then everyone will have one more season to complain about the Dominator winning games and keeping the team in games they don't "deserve" to win.

[detroitdeviant 0]

Get Hasek signed, then start the kids, save some money then if the wings need someone get it at the trade deadline heres a list of next years free agents to be. http://www.hockeytraderumors.com/modules.p...le&sid=8756

[T-Ruff 47]

We need Hasek, Bert and Schneider, in that order..... Hasek and Bert are 1A and A1, and should come relatively cheap..... Bert at 1-2, and what kind of raise is Hasek looking for? 2 million? or something like 3-4.....I wonder....

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Cut Schneider. He's replaceable.

By who and at what cost?

I'm not saying he's totally irreplaceable. But signing him here will still probably be cheaper than going out and getting someone to replace him, considering the ridiculous premiums D-men are going for on the market.

And I don't see anyone in the ranks who can fill that role now. Maybe Kronwall eventually, if he can ever make it through a season healthy.

Hopefully this is just Holland making things interesting. It's not like we thought they'd be able to keep all these guys.

Hasek should still come relatively cheap. He played great for us but age and health and reputation is still a factor. I don't think there's a lot of teams would be willing to gamble on him. More than last year for sure, but still not many.

Bert is interesting, but a total question mark. A short term deal would be great, to test out his health and see if he ever really starts playing like he can.

[schtimpy27 0]

Cut Schneider. He's replaceable.

He is replaceable.... by someone who will command $6 million. Several teams in the past have thought they had enough "kids" in the system that could step up, making Schneider "replaceable." And several teams have also realized that they were wrong.

Will the Wings tank when/if Schneider leaves? No. But will they thrive because he leaves and a better or equal kid comes in? That would be a more resounding no.

Tannabe, or Stuart are the offensive minded Dmen that may be considered ...

First, I will note your emphasis on may, which is appropriate. Second, being a franchise-long Sharks fan, and a fan of Stuart, I can say he is no Schneider. He's not even a Schneider-lite. I can see him in Detroit's lineup like I see myself in a Victoria's Secret string bikini. Sure, it would fit decently and wouldn't be an embarrassment, but it just isn't right.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

W_D's Max Numbers

Hasek- $1.5 mil (health is an issue, no matter how well he played)

Schneider- $3.5 mil (you're old, and injury prone)

Markov- $2 mil (you fill a gap well, but are a dime a dozen)

Bert- $2.5 mil (I want it to work out, but don't get greedy, you're back can't handle a fat wallet)

I think if we lose Schneider and Markov, Sheldon Souray will be a possibility. Also, with the Nashville fire sale about to commence, we could pick up a Zidlicky or a Vishnevski or a Zanon for picks or a prospect.

Any forward losses will be answered with a Devils pick up and no Hasek means a Oz-Howard 07-08.

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

Cut Schneider. He's replaceable.

Yeah, we saw how replaceable he was on the PP during the playoffs....

[evil204 4]

Can't we just sign a forward with an awesome shot and use him on defense on the power play? That's all we need Schneider for.