Would you trade Samuelsson for Lapointe?

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Hit, & injured is 1 thing, but what we see how Dats, & Hank get manhandled - that's a whole different story.

Marty @ 33 years of age isn't too old nor worn out; did ya check out the youtube videos I posted? He took on 2 legit tuff guys, & held his own to say the least!

Marty hasn't had the line mates on other teams as he had here in Detroit; I'm sure he's quite capable of 15 plus goals while playing on the 3rd line, & getting time on the 2nd pp unit.

Sammy seems to be getting injured alot these past few seasons; Marty from what I recall is pretty healthy, & misses few games.

To me it'd be worth adding Marty since he provides what we need.

i dont think marty would see ppl time but i do think he can get 10-15 goals , i agree with everything else you said , marty and chelios would push eachother at the gym

[Guest Crymson]

i agree with you , sammy coughs up the puck wayyyyyy too many times , especially when they were giving him powerplay time ( god only knows why)

It's interesting that you say this, seeing as that Lapointe is so bad defensively--INCLUDING TURNOVERS--that at the trade deadline he had the worst +/- of the entire Blackhawks team. That's saying a lot.

Honestly, where do you get your rocks off pushing material you know nothing about?

Edited June 24, 2007 by Crymson

[superstarsingh 23]

bertuzzi as big as he is wont drop the gloves and fight , and please stop with the marty is really old comments , hes only 33 ! lol hes still got a few yrs in him and can still fight , hes not the best fighter but can fight , and works out like crazy, he might not be like chelios and play well till 45 but marty trains alot .......i wouldnt mind having bertuzzi back but hes one check away from having another bad back injury and pulling a uwe krupp on us lol (yes i know he faked it lol )

Lapointe does not fight on a regular basis. During the prime Bert years in Vancouver, Bertuzzi fought a bit and held his own. Bert can fight, but I guess only when its necessary. Marty has a few years left, yes, hopefully those years are not played in Detroit.

[Guest Crymson]

Hit, & injured is 1 thing, but what we see how Dats, & Hank get manhandled - that's a whole different story.

Marty @ 33 years of age isn't too old nor worn out; did ya check out the youtube videos I posted? He took on 2 legit tuff guys, & held his own to say the least!

Marty hasn't had the line mates on other teams as he had here in Detroit; I'm sure he's quite capable of 15 plus goals while playing on the 3rd line, & getting time on the 2nd pp unit.

Sammy seems to be getting injured alot these past few seasons; Marty from what I recall is pretty healthy, & misses few games.

To me it'd be worth adding Marty since he provides what we need.

Would you rather spend the $1.2m of extra cap space on Marty--whilst simultaneously trading away an incredibly cheap 20-goal scorer--or use that cap space to sign Bert, Hasek, Schneider and FAs?

Sammy's cough ups are always in the offensive end, he rarely makes a bad play in his own end of the ice! Lapointe on the other hand doesn't even know what his own end of the ice looks like!! These nostalgia trade propositions are getting silly. Just because a guy played good for us 5-10 years ago doesn't mean he will again. Could we use some more grit on this team? we could be it's not a must, we proved we can stand up to teams when we are on our game. If we are going to bring in some gritty forwards we need to bring in guys like the Ducks have ie. Getzlaf, Perry, Penner, young gritty forwards who can put the puck in the net. Lapointe my friend might be good for 10 goals at the most!!

Exactly. If we want grit, we can very well get it from much younger, cheaper, and better players. The thread-starter here only mentioned Lapointe because of nostalgia, but evidently he refuses to accept that.

To help protect guys like Dats, & Hank.

Anyone remember last years game against the Flyers? Wasn't it that game that Hank had injured his back?

I'd rather have Marty whom can play on the 3rd line on our team vs Norton who's a career minor leaguer, & btw cannot punch his way outta a paper bag.

If we purely want a checker, we can find somebody better and cheaper than Lapointe. Wouldn't you agree?

[superstarsingh 23]

Cleary is gritty, and far better than Lapointe. He is also a 20 goal scorer of sorts. I know he is not a fighter, but he is the definition of grit. Oh, he is also a very solid defensive player and a great penalty killer. He was also great in the playoffs he had 12? 13 points? In the 18 games we played.

Edited June 24, 2007 by superstarsingh

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

I fail to see how this establishes Marty as better than Samuelsson. Samuelsson scores more, takes less penalties, is better defensively, and costs half as much in a situation in which we have zero cap space to spare. I think that's a no-brainer. What redeems Marty, by the way? That he used to play here?

Samuelsson is far from a complete player, but he's at least Marty's equal at half his price. Have you failed to notice that Marty is an average player at best? Had he not been on the Wings in the past, you'd not have ever thought about this.

You might consider fixing your hideous grammar before you start to make comments about others` intelligence.

yes sammy scores more but you gotta take into consideration that hes playing with detroit and marty has been playing with really awful teams since he left and still scoring 10-15 goals a season , sammy takes less penalties cause well lets face it , hes wimp , marty would cost more i know , and we dont have much cap space to spare........im not suggesting we'd do this immediatley we can wait till the 2nd week of july , youll see most of our guys will be gone we cant afford them

when we'll be at that point i think adding marty for just 1.2 more would be a good asset , hes physical , gets in your face, goes to the corners,can still score the big goal , and stands up for his team and fights if need be , we need that maybe punks like pronger wouldnt of taken a shot at holmstrom , or at the very least he'd have someone who wouldnt take that crap , this has nothing to do with marty being here before

But now that you mention him winning the cup is also a bonus, hes got the experience and knows what to do to win it all , please for the love of god stop saying i just thought of this cause he played here if he played with the avalanche and won 2 cups there and played the same way there as he did here id say the same thing, we got too many skilled wimps on our team we need guys who can play and also hit and fight and be gritty , ill leave my grammer the way it is ......me likes lol

[Guest Crymson]

Id rather have a guy that is going to stick up for our team and takes some penalty minutes than have a guy that gets lots of PP time and gives the puck up and wastes our PP...smae kind og think to me....

I doubt that'd stop your screaming when he constantly put us on the PK with inane penalties.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

If were gonna pick up a former wing who likes to mix it up. It'd be McCarty who'd probably sign for the league minimum.

Lapointe's contract is what I dont want , if he was WAY cheaper I'd consider it.

Also , I'd take Arron Asham over either of them

Cleary is gritty, and far better than Lapointe. He is also a 20 goal scorer of sorts. I know he is not a fighter, but he is the definition of grit. Oh, he is also a very solid defensive player and a great penalty killer. He was also great in the playoffs he had 12? 13 points? In the 18 games we played.

Exactly , Clearys a better younger cheaper version of Lapointe , he doesnt fight but he hits and will stand up for his teamates.

[Guest Crymson]

yes sammy scores more but you gotta take into consideration that hes playing with detroit and marty has been playing with really awful teams since he left and still scoring 10-15 goals a season , sammy takes less penalties cause well lets face it , hes wimp , marty would cost more i know , and we dont have much cap space to spare........im not suggesting we'd do this immediatley we can wait till the 2nd week of july , youll see most of our guys will be gone we cant afford them

Lapointe played with the Bruins from '01-'02 until the start of the lockout. In that time, the Bruins were one of the best teams in the league, consistently finishing in the top three in the east. There you are--wrong again.

Can't you think of anyone better than Marty?

when we'll be at that point i think adding marty for just 1.2 more would be a good asset , hes physical , gets in your face, goes to the corners,can still score the big goal

I find it fairly obvious that you haven't watched Lapointe play since at least 1998.

But now that you mention him winning the cup is also a bonus, hes got the experience and knows what to do to win it all , please for the love of god stop saying i just thought of this cause he played here if he played with the avalanche and won 2 cups there and played the same way there as he did here id say the same thing, we got too many skilled wimps on our team we need guys who can play and also hit and fight and be gritty , ill leave my grammer the way it is ......me likes lol

He doesn't want to leave Chicago.

Exactly , Clearys a better younger cheaper version of Lapointe , he doesnt fight but he hits and will stand up for his teamates.

Younger and cheaper? Yes, also better defensively, better offensively, better-skating and harder-working. He's superior to Lapointe in every way.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

It's interesting that you say this, seeing as that Lapointe is so bad defensively--INCLUDING TURNOVERS--that at the trade deadline he had the worst +/- of the entire Blackhawks team. That's saying a lot.

Honestly, where do you get your rocks off pushing material you know nothing about?

ya and you know everything right ? give me a break dude , you make me laugh ...........how many times do i have to tell you that his numbers wont be as great since he played with really bad teams since he left the wings ????? he had one minus season with the wings but you dont post that , please save the , it was 10 yrs ago bs, i never said he was amazing defensivly but hes a guy we need , who can hit , fight and be in players faces , heres sportsnets comments on marty

Assets

Is extremely industrious, tough and usually disciplined. Can score big goals and plays a strong two-way game. Has excellent leadership skills.

Flaws

Isn't the big-time scorer he once was as a junior player. Hasn't come close to living up to the pressure of a big contract.

Career potential

Third line right wing.

the flaws written is cause the bruins were dumb enough to give him all that cash

plays a strong "two" game ...........gee i guess sportsnet is really stupid cause they dont see he's a minus player , stop looking at stats ! theres more to a player then how many goals he scores , but then again i thought youd know that since you seem to believe you know everything there is about hockey, im pretty sure you dont order the nhl center ice package unless i do , if you did youd stop paying attention to stats so much

[Guest Crymson]

i like quincey too, and i really like hudler but i dont think he will get a fair shot here and his value is pretty good cause teams can see the potential , pitkanen is really young only 23 and hes a big guy who can hit and be gritty but can produce offensivly

Have you gotten these ideas from franchise mode, or something? They bear no connection to reality.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

I doubt that'd stop your screaming when he constantly put us on the PK with inane penalties.

if it was cause he stood up for his teammates then id be more then fine with it

If were gonna pick up a former wing who likes to mix it up. It'd be McCarty who'd probably sign for the league minimum.

Lapointe's contract is what I dont want , if he was WAY cheaper I'd consider it.

Also , I'd take Arron Asham over either of them

Exactly , Clearys a better younger cheaper version of Lapointe , he doesnt fight but he hits and will stand up for his teamates.

mccarty has been getting injured last few seasons

[Guest Crymson]

ya and you know everything right ? give me a break dude , you make me laugh ...........how many times do i have to tell you that his numbers wont be as great since he played with really bad teams since he left the wings ????? he had one minus season with the wings but you dont post that , please save the , it was 10 yrs ago bs, i never said he was amazing defensivly but hes a guy we need , who can hit , fight and be in players faces , heres sportsnets comments on marty

And how many times do I have to tell you that three of those season were with the Bruins, who were a GREAT team back then?

Assets

Is extremely industrious, tough and usually disciplined. Can score big goals and plays a strong two-way game. Has excellent leadership skills.

Flaws

Isn't the big-time scorer he once was as a junior player. Hasn't come close to living up to the pressure of a big contract.

Career potential

Third line right wing.

the flaws written is cause the bruins were dumb enough to give him all that cash

plays a strong "two" game ...........gee i guess sportsnet is really stupid cause they dont see he's a minus player , stop looking at stats ! theres more to a player then how many goals he scores , but then again i thought youd know that since you seem to believe you know everything there is about hockey, im pretty sure you dont order the nhl center ice package unless i do , if you did youd stop paying attention to stats so much

I live in Colorado, and I watch every Wings game. Make the connection. Yes, I do get Blackhawks games.

SportsNet's description really doesn't mean much to me at all. Look at it this way: is he the best move for our team? Can we get somebody better? Are you only bringing up Marty because of nostalgia?

I know the answer to question #3 is a big 'yes,' because you're very stuck on this idea for no viable reason.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Lapointe does not fight on a regular basis. During the prime Bert years in Vancouver, Bertuzzi fought a bit and held his own. Bert can fight, but I guess only when its necessary. Marty has a few years left, yes, hopefully those years are not played in Detroit.

we dont need marty to fight on a regular basis , just be there incase we need it , but at the same time he can play , not like norton , and bertuzzi i dont think will fight anymore he will get in peoples faces and stick out his arm but thats about it

Cleary is gritty, and far better than Lapointe. He is also a 20 goal scorer of sorts. I know he is not a fighter, but he is the definition of grit. Oh, he is also a very solid defensive player and a great penalty killer. He was also great in the playoffs he had 12? 13 points? In the 18 games we played.

i got nothing but good things to say about cleary , but marty will drop them if need be and will get in peoples faces , as good as cleary has been players know he wont fight and wont have nothing to worry about , which is why teams can take cheap shots like pronger did without having anyone on our team go up to him .

trust me other teams will pay attention to that and youll see teams take shots and zetterberg and datsyuk unless we got someone to stand up for us , the reason i say marty is cause he can also play hockey , not cause he played with the wings as crymson so desperatly wants to believe

[Guest Crymson]

Well I'd make the trade for Marty (would much rather have the Blackhawks buy him out, & Holland picks him up for not much $$$) after I attempt to re-sign Dom, Matty, Bert, & any other potential UFA's.

Sammy has hit the 20 goal mark once in 5 years of NHL play; not saying that he's not capable of getting us 20 for the 2007-2008 season, but he's certainly not a "natural" goal scorer.

That said Lapointe isn't any better in the goal scoring department, but while here in Detroit he actually played "okay" defensively - the teams he's been on since leaving have been dreadfull.

Reason why I'd like him back is for the fact that he can still play the game, will stand up for teammates, is a team leader (actually we have enough of them already), & IMHO is a "horse apiece" when comparing Sammy, & Marty in their hockey ability.

Marty has already stated that he does not want to leave Chicago, in any event.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Lapointe played with the Bruins from '01-'02 until the start of the lockout. In that time, the Bruins were one of the best teams in the league, consistently finishing in the top three in the east. There you are--wrong again.

Can't you think of anyone better than Marty?

I find it fairly obvious that you haven't watched Lapointe play since at least 1998.

He doesn't want to leave Chicago.

Younger and cheaper? Yes, also better defensively, better offensively, better-skating and harder-working. He's superior to Lapointe in every way.

they had good regular seasons but they sucked in the playoffs being exited by mtl , if your gonna use that season for saying marty sucks then you might as well say joe thornton sucks cause he wasnt playing that good and didnt show up in the post season which lead to him being traded

Trust me i seen marty play since he left us , hes still gritty and physical and can fight , able to chip in some goals

your the one so hell bent on not wanting marty lapointe here , you tell me a player you think can come here not only be able to fight if need be and be physical and hit and stil be able to score 10 to 15 goals a season

of course hes gonna say he doesnt wanna leave chicago , you should know what people tell the media and what they really feel are 2 different things

samuelsson is superior to marty in every way ?? LOL sure .......if thats true in 2 yrs when hes a free agent some stupid team will at least offer him 2.5-3 million per , before samuelsson came here his nhl career was going nowhere , hes just lucky to be on a great team

Have you gotten these ideas from franchise mode, or something? They bear no connection to reality.

whatever you say , torres is god ........meanwhile you got a guy from edmonton on the board who watched torres and says the city wants him gone cause he sucks , but your right ........hes amazingggg cause he had one good playoff run, hes only one mind you

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

And how many times do I have to tell you that three of those season were with the Bruins, who were a GREAT team back then?

I live in Colorado, and I watch every Wings game. Make the connection. Yes, I do get Blackhawks games.

SportsNet's description really doesn't mean much to me at all. Look at it this way: is he the best move for our team? Can we get somebody better? Are you only bringing up Marty because of nostalgia?

I know the answer to question #3 is a big 'yes,' because you're very stuck on this idea for no viable reason.

how many times do i have to tell you that joe thornton and his other teammates did nothing in the post season ??? takes more then just marty lapointe to win in the post season , its a team game , and i told you so many times marty lapointes role isnt to score 10-15 goals in the post season , but he is able to score 10-15 in the regular season

you get hawks games what , when they play eachother during the year ? 8 games ? i catch the season so i watch alot of hockey and hes not as awful as you so desperatly wanna believe , stop bringing up nostalgia, he can still hit and be physical and fight , we dont have a fighter ....this has nothing to do with him being a past redwing , if i was sentimental id being back darren instead .

.if you think we can bring someone up whos better then tell me and stop being unrealistic like most people here and mention smyth , im aware we got some guys to resign but im also aware thanks to the flyers , thats unlikely to happen

Marty has already stated that he does not want to leave Chicago, in any event.

hes there , of course he will say that .........he's got ties to the wings ,and his son is a redwings fan despite the fact he plays for the hawks he cheers against his dad , he would come here trust me

Edited June 24, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[ltgator333 3]

lets find out first who we arent signing before we start trading Sammy

I would agree with that.

Do you intentionally start threads with idiotic ideas just to get a responce from people?

Why not?

[scotzman 29]

Would you rather spend the $1.2m of extra cap space on Marty--whilst simultaneously trading away an incredibly cheap 20-goal scorer--or use that cap space to sign Bert, Hasek, Schneider and FAs?

Exactly. If we want grit, we can very well get it from much younger, cheaper, and better players. The thread-starter here only mentioned Lapointe because of nostalgia, but evidently he refuses to accept that.

If we purely want a checker, we can find somebody better and cheaper than Lapointe. Wouldn't you agree?

Thank you.

I grow weary of the "let's bring ____ back to the Wings," talk.

Fedorov - gone.

McCarty - gone.

Shanahan - gone.

Kozlov - gone.

Marty - gone.

Never to return again (at least we hope).

Even if Yzerman wanted to comeback (which he won't), it's time to turn the page on yester-year. These are today's Red Wings... stop with the re-treads.

Beyond that, Sammy is just a better fit at this point and time in the organization. Marty does not fit because of salary and style of play. That's it. Plus, we have no room for him on the roster. If/when Bert resigns, we don't need him or have room for him. We can't have it both ways... either we infuse this team with some youth or reassemble the '97/'98 Cup teams.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

Thank you.

I grow weary of the "let's bring ____ back to the Wings," talk.

Fedorov - gone.

McCarty - gone.

Shanahan - gone.

Kozlov - gone.

Marty - gone.

Never to return again (at least we hope).

Even if Yzerman wanted to comeback (which he won't), it's time to turn the page on yester-year. These are today's Red Wings... stop with the re-treads.

Beyond that, Sammy is just a better fit at this point and time in the organization. Marty does not fit because of salary and style of play. That's it. Plus, we have no room for him on the roster. If/when Bert resigns, we don't need him or have room for him. We can't have it both ways... either we infuse this team with some youth or reassemble the '97/'98 Cup teams.

you guys are hard headed, this has nothing to do with bringing back old players , marty is the type of player i think we need, someone else mentioned asham , if he can fight too then get the guy , you guys keep saying we can get a marty type player but besides that one person who said asham no one else here has come up with another name, your sammy is a better play cause his style fits here , we got enough soft skilled players

i just noticed this ..........

TheFourthPeriod.com

According to the Chicago Daily Herald, the Blackhawks are actively shopping veteran forward Martin Lapointe.

Lapointe served as the Hawks' captain last season in several instances when Adrian Aucoin was hurt. With Aucoin now in Calgary, the paper claims Lapointe won't get the full-time captain's gig.

The Daily Herald reports Lapointe is currently on the trade block in an attempt to get the last year of his contract [$2.4 million] off the books.

Edited June 25, 2007 by kindlwillbegreat

[Dominator2005 558]

Yeah - Lapointe for Sammy - anytime!!!

[Echolalia 2,961]

because I'm too lazy to read through the entire topic right now, I'm just going to throw my opinions out there on what little I've read and assume that it hasn't been resolved yet.

Most of us would probably trade Lapoint for Sammuelson in a heartbeat. The problem is nobody would be willing to give away Lapoint for Sammuelson. In a lifetiime.

Bertuzzi is a tough power forward, but his timidness is more than just the result of his back injury. Hes been a bit more shy ever since the Moore incident, but occasionally will throw a good hit in

People will always say the wings could use a bit more toughness, but I think its good to keep one thing in mind when saying this. We didn't loose the playoffs because we weren't tough. In fact, I think we were the toughest team out of all 16 teams to play. We stepped up to Calgary and they couldn't keep up with our physicality. We stepped up to San Hose, and they were all beasts. We stepped up to Anaheim, too. So its not that the Wings NEED another gritty player, even to win a stanley cup, and I personally think our money would be better spent on a sniper. Especially with Babcock's motivation. Hell, he got Datsyuk throwing the body around. With Babs behind the bench, we have 18 power forwards.

[kindlwillbegreat 0]

because I'm too lazy to read through the entire topic right now, I'm just going to throw my opinions out there on what little I've read and assume that it hasn't been resolved yet.

Most of us would probably trade Lapoint for Sammuelson in a heartbeat. The problem is nobody would be willing to give away Lapoint for Sammuelson. In a lifetiime.

Bertuzzi is a tough power forward, but his timidness is more than just the result of his back injury. Hes been a bit more shy ever since the Moore incident, but occasionally will throw a good hit in

People will always say the wings could use a bit more toughness, but I think its good to keep one thing in mind when saying this. We didn't loose the playoffs because we weren't tough. In fact, I think we were the toughest team out of all 16 teams to play. We stepped up to Calgary and they couldn't keep up with our physicality. We stepped up to San Hose, and they were all beasts. We stepped up to Anaheim, too. So its not that the Wings NEED another gritty player, even to win a stanley cup, and I personally think our money would be better spent on a sniper. Especially with Babcock's motivation. Hell, he got Datsyuk throwing the body around. With Babs behind the bench, we have 18 power forwards.

sniper would be nice but adding a guy who can not only play hockey and fight would be a GREAT asset , then maybe punks like pronger will think twice before cheap shotting our guys , and lets not kid ourselves we were lucky holmstrom came back , we might not be so lucky next year, its always good to have a guy step up for us ,the fact that we let pronger get away with that s*** without even going up to him was pathetic

[EstonianWingsFan#1 0]

No way, I like Sammy, I remember how people bashed him at the beginning of playoffs and then he seriously bloomed. I like his style, he may not be hitting around all the time but he isn't exactly a soft player. I mean he was grittier than Bert. But thats another story, Bert will improve, it isn't easy to jump into playoffs after being out all season. Lapointe is overpaid aging punk, who doesn't have the scoring touch anymore. I mean when he went to Bruins he was great, then he faded, all he did was asking for a bigger paycheck - for nothing. Rather I'd give a go to some younger player and actually Grigorenko has bulked during last couple of years and is little bit like Holmer. Good scorer and passes, drives hard to net, strong in traffic, great on powerplay.. I've waited too many years to see what he can do, now we have a chance.. I think the Wings old strategy doesn't work anymore. It's not the 1995 - 2002 period, when team was pretty much built on Stevie, Shanny, Fedorov, Lidström etc.. Wings should concentrate on rebuilding with younger players and it's working already, we got Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kindl is coming up, Howard, Franzen, Filppula. Hudler has improved, Grigs is coming. I must say that I am quite surprised that Detroit hasn't suffered at all during the changes, because Detroit has been one of the top teams every year, despite relatively weak playoffs most of the last 5 years.

I wonder how much Wings average age drops when Cheli and Dominator retire?

[Lilja 0]

What do you all have against Sammy? He works hard every shift and he can score goals and his contract is cheap. He is a steal! He played the point because he was the best option available. Also he looks like he enjoys when the play gets a bit dirty which is a rare quality in the team.

The expert here in sweden had him as favorite player. Someone with very unbiased opinions, calle johansson. Do we see something that you dont?

So I agree with some others, lets save the space for something greater.