Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 Kronwall is no replacement for Markov. If he is expected to fill his ice time, than we're in trouble. I'd be very surprised to see him actually stay healthy for a full season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feldmarschall 9 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) I think it's time for scouts and fans alike to re-evaluate Kronwall's potential. It's not as a #2 or #3 guy. He's a solid #4 when healthy, and that means we should keep Markov. As it stands, we've got two solid all-around non-physical defensemen and then a large gap from Rafalski's talent down to Kronwall/Lebda/Lilja/Chelios. Markov helped fill that gap with smart defensive play and some physicality. I'm happy that we're still in the market for him. I think he's quietly useful and effective, and helps Lids bring out the best of his offensive game. Edited July 14, 2007 by Feldmarschall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captainsubtext 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 I'd be very surprised to see him actually stay healthy for a full season. That's why adding Markov or Sopel would be a good choice at this moment. Anyway I expect both of them to join a team that came short in the Souray negotiations. Maybe Buffalo, NYI or San Jose. There is still a lot of money out there for decent players like Danny or Brent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chase 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 Good, I liked Markov. I have a sneaky suspicion that he will be back next season, considering he hasnt signed elsewhere yet. Although we do need a forward, you can still never be to deep on D. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lou_Siffer 1 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 That's why adding Markov or Sopel would be a good choice at this moment. Anyway I expect both of them to join a team that came short in the Souray negotiations. Maybe Buffalo, NYI or San Jose. There is still a lot of money out there for decent players like Danny or Brent. I think its a given that San Jose will overpay for either Sutton, Markov, or Sopel....probably more likely the first two. They were already shaky on defense and lost their best defenseman, actually i wouldnt be surprised to see them end up with two of the 3 if the cap permits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
superstarsingh 23 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 I would rather have Markov than Sopel, I hope that we can bring him back but he will probably get a considerable offer thats pays well over our offers from some other team. But as Kp said, Kronner is probably not going to be there for the whole year so we need to have that depth. Hopefully Kronner plays the whole year, but yeah...we need to be prepared for when the inevitable happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) Could someone refresh my memory? I think I recall that Markov shoots left, but I'm not sure on that. I recall the "L" boys (Lebda, Lilja, Lidstrom, Kronwall- 2 l's on the end) are all lefties, and Cheli and Quincey shoot right. I remember reading that Rafalski also shoots right. Any help here would be appreciated. Thanks. As long as we're on the topic, to what extent do you think it helps to have a natural leftie and rightie paired? Enough to say that if Markov is a leftie that we pass, and aim for more righties? Or is it kind of a nice thing to have them paired, but not that big of a deal? Personally, I never was as big of a Markov fan as many, but I sure wouldn't send him packing if we can get him for a deal. You are right - Markov shoots left-handed. Quincey, however, though is also a lefty. Chelios and Rafalski are the righties. As far as the topic goes, I'm all for bringing Markov back for the right price. I'm thinking the longer this drags out, the better chance the Red Wings have at keeping him. I'm not sure how badly Markov even wants to stay here though. While I would be pleased to see Markov return, it won't devastate me or the team if he doesn't. Edited July 14, 2007 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airborn 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 As for whos going to pair with Lidstrom, are we so quick to forget? Lilja will likely see most of his Even Strength shifts with Lidstrom. And if he plays like he did in the playoffs - physicality and all - it might not be that bad of an idea. If we have to start the season with Lilja pairing with Lids, I'm OK with that. However, we have to make a move before the playoffs. There is no way Lilja should be matched up aginst the other teams top line on a regular basis. Lilja did good in the playoffs, because he was in the 2nd pairing (playing against the other teams 2nd and 3rd lines), and he was playing with Scheids who helped him out. He definitely fell off in the Anaheim series (even before the terrible giveaway) when the talent got better and he lost his partner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) If Kronwall stays healthy (big if), my guess would be that Lidstrom and Kronwall would be paired together in even-strength situations. As good as Lidstrom is, playing with Lilja all the time could bring out the worst in anyone. I just hope Kronwall can stay healthy this season, or else that contract extension may start to look like a big mistake. At some point, potential needs to turn into results. Edited July 14, 2007 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Airborn 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 If Kronwall stays healthy (big if), my guess would be that Lidstrom and Kronwall would be paired together in even-strength situations. As good as Lidstrom is, playing with Lilja all the time could bring out the worst in anyone. I just hope Kronwall can stay healthy this season, or else that contract extension may start to look like a big mistake. At some point, potential needs to turn into results. Keep in mind, whoever pairs with Lidstrom is going to do the bulk of the corner work, because teams will try and dump the puck aways from Lids. I wouldn't want to subject Kronwall to that kind of pounding knowing his injury history. If the season started today, I'd pair Lids with Lilja or Chelios. I like Chelios better, but you also don't want to wear him down before the playoffs. He's in his mid 40s afterall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) Keep in mind, whoever pairs with Lidstrom is going to do the bulk of the corner work, because teams will try and dump the puck aways from Lids. I wouldn't want to subject Kronwall to that kind of pounding knowing his injury history. If the season started today, I'd pair Lids with Lilja or Chelios. I like Chelios better, but you also don't want to wear him down before the playoffs. He's in his mid 40s afterall. Good point. I'm not crazy about playing Chelios with Lidstrom at all. I agree with you about resting him for the playoffs. At some point, Kronwall needs to get involved in physical play, regardless of his injury history. Every year is supposed to be Kronwall's breakout year and then the injuries come. I feel bad for the guy because he has had some freak injuries, but I want to see him live up to the hype at some point. I think Kronwall is the best candidate to play with Lidstrom, just because I don't trust Lilja enough, despite a stellar playoff run. Edited July 14, 2007 by GoWings1905 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kozac 10 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 Markov would be a solid #3 as our roster stands right now. Knonvall is not at his level. I really hope that this is the season Nik can finally break out and live up to his potential, but i don't think any of us have real confidence in him. Singning Markov would be a good safe move, and i'm all for it, but at the same time I don't think we'll suffer TOO much if we don't, as long as Lilja can stay at the level he played during the playoffs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaynardJKeenan 1 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 We need to sign Danny. It will be alot cheaper now than if we try to pick a D up at the deadline. We got money and no good forwards to spend it on. Let's beef up on D, and maybe have a few bucks to spend at the deadline. If our D stays healthy, maybe we have some trade bait if our O is slumping too badly. Saving our money for the deadline is not a good idea because it is too costly, draft pick wise, to try and get a big name. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 We need to sign Danny. It will be alot cheaper now than if we try to pick a D up at the deadline. We got money and no good forwards to spend it on. Let's beef up on D, and maybe have a few bucks to spend at the deadline. If our D stays healthy, maybe we have some trade bait if our O is slumping too badly. Saving our money for the deadline is not a good idea because it is too costly, draft pick wise, to try and get a big name. If we signed Markov to a 4 million dollar contract, we would have no room for any moves at the deadline. We'd have to move quite a few main players off the roster to do anything. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaynardJKeenan 1 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 If we signed Markov to a 4 million dollar contract, we would have no room for any moves at the deadline. We'd have to move quite a few main players off the roster to do anything. My bad, I thought we had 6 million left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 If we signed Markov to a 4 million dollar contract, we would have no room for any moves at the deadline. We'd have to move quite a few main players off the roster to do anything. IF we sign Markov to a 4M contract - which we won't because we wouldve already signed him if we were willing to pay that - then Holland and co. would defer Hasek's 2M bonus to the following season, which IMO is a bad idea. Personally, I think if we sign a Dman it cant be for anything more than 3M per AND we should trade Lilja. Then wed still have 2M for the deadline PLUS Haseks bonuses to defer til next year if we needed to. Remember how pissed Lilja was when he was pulling 7th duty at the beginning of the season?? Well, then trade him to Chicago who is looking for a depth veteran Dman if we sign another guy. That still leaves Detroit with Quincey and/or Meech as viable options for the 7th position and injury duty. As for Kronwall, people need to be patient with the guy. He is a little reckless with his body at times, but how can you blame the guy for catching a rut in the ice and breaking his leg? or for getting his nose cut off with a skate and having to go a few months with a fricking cage when you arent used to it? Does anybody realize that this past season was really only his first season in the NHL? He played 20 games as an injury call-up in 03/04, broke his leg. He played 27 games in his "rookie" season, tore his ACL. Then we had this past years debacle. The funny thing is, Kronwall played his best in his call-up year in 03-04. He was a beast in the lineup and was everything he was cracked up to be, just like Fischer was in the season before his ACL tear. After Fischer tore his ACL, he had an abysmal season. See the trend? If the pattern continues, it serves that Kronwall should start to get his game back this year. I really dont see how anyone can judge his potential at this point. IMO, his potential should read: N/A until hes played another 65+ game season (hopefully more). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regwinguofmfan 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) Well, Even though Markov kinda looks like Vlady, Id bail on him and go for Sopel. PS- My problem with Kronner is he may be a little Fragile. He hasnt completed a season in the NHL yet and should be in his prime as far as that goes. Edited July 14, 2007 by regwinguofmfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanBarnes! 293 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/rumors/post/Re...F?urn=nhl,39024 I'm suprised that Holland is even keeping him in mind still. We have enough defensmen, and were arguably one of the best (if not the single greatest) defensive team for the upcoming season as it. We're tight on cash, and we could still use another forward. I say better luck somewhere else, big guy And the possibility that Markov was a big part of the success didn't appear to you? I'd take Markov over Schneider (or Sopel) in a heartbeat. He's a great fit with Lidstrom. Edited July 14, 2007 by RyanBarnes! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mjolman 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) resign him Edited July 14, 2007 by Mjolman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Dynasty 267 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 This guy is stil avaliable. If we can't get Markov or Sopel, he is my #1 choice. Hits big and fights. Plus, he is 6'6". This guy would shut a lot of negative-Nancy's mouths about size and grit. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRMfBUTaoM4&NR=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsnut25 10 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 Remember people defence wins championships, you think the Rags are gonna win the cup because they have all the big name forwards NO. I would much rather have Markov on the D then add some big named forward, dont get me wron we need the scoring but that wasnt our problem in the playoffs. The more Depth at D the better chance we have if some one goes down. GO WINGS The wings had the best D inh the league last season, they still had the best d after losing Kronvall, and after losing Schnieder that arguably still would have the #r1 or #2 defense. And they did not win the championship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) The wings had the best D inh the league last season, they still had the best d after losing Kronvall, and after losing Schnieder that arguably still would have the #r1 or #2 defense. And they did not win the championship. The Red Wings D was obliterated when they lost Kronwall and Schneider. Detroit was able to carry on because Babcock's system is a benefit to defenseman, but NO NHL D squad that only has 1 offensive Dman and the other 5 being defensive Dmen is even in the top 10. One of the biggest things that makes a D squad good is its balance, and Detroit had absolutely none of that. The outlet passes suffered, the offense all around suffered, and most importantly, the PP suffered as a result of having to use Sammy with Lidstrom, and Chelios and Lebda as the 2nd unit. We let it slip in Anaheim in Game 5 when we couldnt put the final nail in the coffin with 1, 2, 3 long-lived 5 on 3s. IMO, Detroit should not risk being in that situation again. Lidstrom and Rafalski are machines, buts its still yet to be seen if Kronner can pull off an entire 82+ games. Knowing that, Sopel would be a good choice for the Wings. Hes a good puck mover like Danny, but he has a heck of a shot. If/when Kronwall goes down, Sopel would be a helluva choice over Lebda, Chelios, or Lilja, and better than Sammy as well. I love Sutton's physical game, but people are seriously overlooking his defensive game. Hes not a fit for the Detroit system at all. Edited July 14, 2007 by YoungGuns1340 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanBarnes! 293 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 The Red Wings D was obliterated when they lost Kronwall and Schneider. Detroit was able to carry on because Babcock's system is a benefit to defenseman, but NO NHL D squad that only has 1 offensive Dman and the other 5 being defensive Dmen is even in the top 10. One of the biggest things that makes a D squad good is its balance, and Detroit had absolutely none of that. The outlet passes suffered, the offense all around suffered, and most importantly, the PP suffered as a result of having to use Sammy with Lidstrom, and Chelios and Lebda as the 2nd unit. We let it slip in Anaheim in Game 5 when we couldnt put the final nail in the coffin with 1, 2, 3 long-lived 5 on 3s. IMO, Detroit should not risk being in that situation again. Lidstrom and Rafalski are machines, buts its still yet to be seen if Kronner can pull off an entire 82+ games. Knowing that, Sopel would be a good choice for the Wings. Hes a good puck mover like Danny, but he has a heck of a shot. If/when Kronwall goes down, Sopel would be a helluva choice over Lebda, Chelios, or Lilja, and better than Sammy as well. I love Sutton's physical game, but people are seriously overlooking his defensive game. Hes not a fit for the Detroit system at all. You mention balance YG, but someone like Sopel would make Detroit's defense awfully unbalanced in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aeothe Kaear 0 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 Sopel sucks, and so does Sutton, neither can play a legit top four role like Markov can. Come on guys, enough blustering and negotiating, meet in the middle like always and ink Danny for a couple years at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puckloo39 5,686 Report post Posted July 14, 2007 (edited) Sopel sucks, and so does Sutton, neither can play a legit top four role like Markov can. Come on guys, enough blustering and negotiating, meet in the middle like always and ink Danny for a couple years at least. FWIW, I agree. Edited July 14, 2007 by puckloo39 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites