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Defenseman13

Kelly Kisio vs. Sersei Fedorov

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Sorry this is a bit off-topic, but around 27 seconds in the first video, they show Dallas Drake on the bench :D

...and I totally don't remember the 2nd vid.

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I could not even imagine what kind of punishment that guy (Kasio?) got from Bob. it should be something like that fight between Steve and Mc(Guire) when Probert went and almost killed that no-namer.,

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Great clip of Sergei!

At 6'2" and 200+ lbs, people forget how big Fedorov is. And that he wasn't a fighter, but he sticks up for himself.

*cough* team toughness *cough*

You might be on to something. Bringing back Fedorov not only solves our tougness problem, but it also satisfies the many nostalgic fans on this board that want Feds back.

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Great clip of Sergei!

At 6'2" and 200+ lbs, people forget how big Fedorov is. And that he wasn't a fighter, but he sticks up for himself.

*cough* team toughness *cough*

That he is. :D

Mickey was great in that clip doing the commentary. I miss the days when the Wings used to play on PASS sports.

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Guest Crymson

Great clip of Sergei!

At 6'2" and 200+ lbs, people forget how big Fedorov is. And that he wasn't a fighter, but he sticks up for himself.

*cough* team toughness *cough*

You must've have been injected with a massive dose of perception-altering nostalgia if you're bringing up Fedorov as an example of prior tough guys on the team.

You might be on to something. Bringing back Fedorov not only solves our tougness problem, but it also satisfies the many nostalgic fans on this board that want Feds back.

I earnestly hope that this is a joke.

Edited by Crymson

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You must've have been injected with a massive dose of perception-altering nostalgia if you're bringing up Fedorov as an example of prior tough guys on the team.

Do you seriously think I'm suggesting Fedorov was an example of a tough guy on the team?

OF COURSE Fedorov was not a tough guy. But he's 6'2 and 200+ pounds. That would make him bigger than only two or three of the players on the Wings regular roster. Compared to the current lineup, Fedorov practically is a tough guy. Who would you pick in a fight between Feds and Lilja?

Everyone remembers how crazy skilled he was, but tend to forget that Feds is a big guy too. And how small this team has gotten.

So no he wasn't a tough guy, but he had a temper at times. Can you imaging if Zetterberg got fed up with someone whacking him all game, turned around and dropped the gloves like Feds did?

It'd just be nice to see someone react to all the crap the Wings put up with last season. If someone turned around and stood up for themselves instead of saying "the power play is our enforcer."

Everyone keeps talking about how much grit they showed in the playoffs and I agree, especially for being undersized, but conveniently forget the way they were knocked around and beat down in many games during the regular season.

Which is why my vote for the 2008 slogan is "Detroit Red Wings: Turning the other cheek."

EDIT: And Fedorov coming back does not solve our toughness problem. He's not been the same player since he left, and I don't think coming back will magically rejuvenate him.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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So are you advocating genetics is more important than hockey skill?

Also, what games were they beaten down in the regular season? I asked this in another thread but got no answer instead they responded to the part that I specifically asked not to mention because it's different from what I'm asking. So which games? The Philly game? That's all I can think off.

Edited by Heaton

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So are you advocating genetics is more important than hockey skill?

Also, what games were they beaten down in the regular season? I asked this in another thread but got no answer instead they responded to the part that I specifically asked not to mention because it's different from what I'm asking. So which games? The Philly game? That's all I can think off.

Yes, I'm obviously advocating genetics is more important than hockey skill. And Fedorov is a perfect example of how skill doesn't matter, you just have to be big. :rolleyes:

Forget it. I don't know how many times I can make a relatively simple point without someone taking my words, twisting them into a ridiculous example and handing them back to me to refute my argument.

All I'll say is this. I've been watching the Wings for 20+ years now, and this is by far the smallest, most pacifist lineup I can remember. I don't know why this is such a hard point for people to understand, unless it's just wrong for me to criticize this "classy" lineup.

People still talk fondly about the wars with Colorado in the 90s. Those would never ever happen with this team. Ever. Larionov fought Forsberg for chrissakes. (which is a perfect example of team toughness. a non-fighter sticking up for himself and his teammates when needed). Draper would've had his face smashed in and that would've been the end of it, other than the threads here saying how Lemieux served a suspension so the matter was handled, and the Wings shouldn't lower themselves to retaliate in any way shape or form.

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I do think coming back would magically rejuvenate him.

*kinda off topic*.. the ill will showed by many fans is not shared by the team, players or front office.....

In a 2006 interview, former Red Wing head coach Scotty Bowman said, "[Federov was] one of my favorite players as a coach because he can do anything [asked of him on ice]." Bowman experimented by using Fedorov on defense Jim Devellano said, "I’m convinced if we left him there, he’d have won a Norris Trophy".

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Yes, I'm obviously advocating genetics is more important than hockey skill. And Fedorov is a perfect example of how skill doesn't matter, you just have to be big. :rolleyes:

I'm not twisting anything, I've read things that the Wings need to get bigger, tougher and stronger. Well, that's easy to fix. What ISN'T easy to fix is getting those same qualities and being able to play hockey at a high level while fitting into our system.

You've never said you wanted the system to change, I'm not saying you have, but at the same time saying we need to get bigger and stronger gets us no where. Who should the Wings get? I've read what you've posted, things such as a different philosophy in drafting and starting there, that's fine.

As for this team being the smallest Red Wings team you've ever seen? Well, I assume you're coming from a place that believes that we need to get bigger to compete with the rest of the league? Or get bigger to get over the hump? Or what? If we can win with our current gameplan, does it really matter how tall or how much the players weigh?

Look, Harold, we have a difference in opinions and that's fine. I'm not one to come here and be dense on purpose, but after seeing the same recycled garbage (not implying you) spewed over and over it gets old. If this team can compete the same level with who they have, but they don't fight? I don't care. I guess I'm different, while I like the fights I don't watch hockey because of it, never have. That's not what drew me in.

If we win the cup and had 0 fights during the regular season, I couldn't care less. I also don't see what fighting would do to help this team win games. But don't get me wrong, I love the brawls, I love the fights filled with passion, I loved March 26th 1997. I'm not anti-fighting, I would love to see the instigator rule get elminated. I'd be all for the Wings players fighting, I'd love in Franzen dropped the gloves once in a while, I'd love to see that kind of stuff. But I don't believe our teams success is linked to it.

The team outhit Calgary and SJ in the playoffs, I see ZERO reason why it won't continue next year. Zero. Will it go on all through the regular season? No, and I don't expect it to. I don't look at the regular season to validate what this team did in the playoffs.

Edited by Heaton

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Yes, I'm obviously advocating genetics is more important than hockey skill. And Fedorov is a perfect example of how skill doesn't matter, you just have to be big. :rolleyes:

Forget it. I don't know how many times I can make a relatively simple point without someone taking my words, twisting them into a ridiculous example and handing them back to me to refute my argument.

All I'll say is this. I've been watching the Wings for 20+ years now, and this is by far the smallest, most pacifist lineup I can remember. I don't know why this is such a hard point for people to understand, unless it's just wrong for me to criticize this "classy" lineup.

People still talk fondly about the wars with Colorado in the 90s. Those would never ever happen with this team. Ever. Larionov fought Forsberg for chrissakes. (which is a perfect example of team toughness. a non-fighter sticking up for himself and his teammates when needed). Draper would've had his face smashed in and that would've been the end of it, other than the threads here saying how Lemieux served a suspension so the matter was handled, and the Wings shouldn't lower themselves to retaliate in any way shape or form.

I may be speaking out of turn, or interpreting his posts badly, but I doubt, even given the tough talk, that Harold is talking less about "fighting", per se, than he is about the "possibility thereof".... Wings had next to nothing to counter the Dirrty Dux, and there was a parallel in the SC finals against Ottawa (Ottawa having been, heretofore, the BadBoyz of the East, until they ran up against a BiggerBadder). I think he said it very well when he posted the size of former Red Wing Stanley Cup winners.

It's obviously not about fighting or enforcers any more (Pronger seems to be grandfathered in, damn his black hockey heart), but it seems to be about size AND talent AND toughness. And SIZE.... TALENTED size. There weren't any FA's on the market this season that we could afford that fit the bill, so whachagonna do, if yer Kenny? The best he could, considering his limited options, and I for one am THRILLED, because this year's cautious spending means a Zetterberg in Wing Future.

In case it's unclear, I agree with Harold, Wings've gotten skilled but weak against physical play (thank you expansion/salary cap for that)... but with a nod to some points that Heaton made as well. Dunno why you guys got so testosterone with each other, your POV's really aren't that far apart from each other's. :sly:

Harold, if I've misunderstood/misinterpreted you, then just lay it off to the Canadian Jagermeister I drank 10 years ago (brain cell loss, doncha know).

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I do think coming back would magically rejuvenate him.

*kinda off topic*.. the ill will showed by many fans is not shared by the team, players or front office.....

In a 2006 interview, former Red Wing head coach Scotty Bowman said, "[Federov was] one of my favorite players as a coach because he can do anything [asked of him on ice]." Bowman experimented by using Fedorov on defense Jim Devellano said, "I’m convinced if we left him there, he’d have won a Norris Trophy".

Oh, those rosy-coloured Fedorov glasses!

I wear them too, and always have (back in the Infamous Negotiation Days, I was nearly THE lone pro-Fed voice on the WingsList to which I subbed, and I subsequently took a lot of abuse-- when I say "a lot" I'm referring to threatening hate mail -- but now... I'd love him back, but I doubt he'd be "magically rejuvenated."

He's older, he's had injuries, he'd be playing with a different coach, under a new system, with mostly unfamiliar players...

Kinda OT as well: I've lurrvved what Offsides and Hubby (that pirate guy, y'know who I mean) have said about seeing Sergei in COL-- how he lights up when DET is mentioned... awwww....

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Do you seriously think I'm suggesting Fedorov was an example of a tough guy on the team?

OF COURSE Fedorov was not a tough guy. But he's 6'2 and 200+ pounds. That would make him bigger than only two or three of the players on the Wings regular roster. Compared to the current lineup, Fedorov practically is a tough guy. Who would you pick in a fight between Feds and Lilja?

Everyone remembers how crazy skilled he was, but tend to forget that Feds is a big guy too. And how small this team has gotten.

So no he wasn't a tough guy, but he had a temper at times. Can you imaging if Zetterberg got fed up with someone whacking him all game, turned around and dropped the gloves like Feds did?

It'd just be nice to see someone react to all the crap the Wings put up with last season. If someone turned around and stood up for themselves instead of saying "the power play is our enforcer."

Everyone keeps talking about how much grit they showed in the playoffs and I agree, especially for being undersized, but conveniently forget the way they were knocked around and beat down in many games during the regular season.

Which is why my vote for the 2008 slogan is "Detroit Red Wings: Turning the other cheek."

EDIT: And Fedorov coming back does not solve our toughness problem. He's not been the same player since he left, and I don't think coming back will magically rejuvenate him.

:clap: but, alas, Fedorov will be back!

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I think more over his pride would prevent him from rejoining the wings. I think he felt spited that they didn't offer what Anaheim did. But I could be wrong.

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good stuff :clap: who is Sersei?

rumor has it Feds might be offered a contract to come back home to Detroit. He wouldn't comment exacly to the press about it but was in Detroit recently and I guess Columbus is going to buy out his contract either way. only rumors but I would love to see Feds play for the Wings again.

and that video with him and Shanny never gets old. " I love you to my brother" :clap:

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