Forsberg vs. Fedorov

[OsGOD 3]

Might not but our chances of another haven't looked as promising since he left either!

[glasgowcelticwing 18]

Are you saying we should get him now and take on all of his salary? What exactly is his salary anymore? Is it still over 6 million? If so, don't we have less than 6 in cap space?

His salary is way to much right now , i'm thinking he'd either have to get baught out or we'd have to wait till the deadline and pick him up when his salary won't be that much.

[OsGOD 3]

His salary is from a previous contract... I am sure he will be taking a pay cut to play next year... and he may even take a "previous wing" discount to come back to his NHL roots.

[WingMachine91 0]

first off, i would like to say that i would love to get feds back at the deadline. but i was just thinking, can u imagine if he would of signed with detroit instead of the ducks? how F'd our team would be with his salary. even though we all resent him for leaving, i think it was a blessing in disguise. with him here, who knows, maybe datsyuk or zetter wouldnt of developed quickly enough, or we wouldnt of been able to sign dats, or schnieder after the lockout, and would have no cap room for this offseason either.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

first off, i would like to say that i would love to get feds back at the deadline. but i was just thinking, can u imagine if he would of signed with detroit instead of the ducks? how F'd our team would be with his salary. even though we all resent him for leaving, i think it was a blessing in disguise. with him here, who knows, maybe datsyuk or zetter wouldnt of developed quickly enough, or we wouldnt of been able to sign dats, or schnieder after the lockout, and would have no cap room for this offseason either.

...nobody who is a hockey fan or knows the game resents Fedorov for leaving. He had an opportunity and he took it. He already won numerous trophies and 3 Stanley Cups. He was givin an opportunity to ake TONS of cash, live in the limelight that is So. Cal. (for pete's sake, he dated Tara Reid for a while!) He was a partier, he wanted to live a little. What would you do? Make $10MM a year and spend the night in Detroit or Los Angeles? Cripe, he still lives here in the off-season, he hasn't turned his back on Michigan, he just went a played for fun for a while. After-all isn't it all about making money? He'll be 38 in December and will be looking to try to win one more Cup and then retire by 40 (unless he has a little bit of Larionov in him.) He did us a favor by leaving, now he will come back for about $2-3MM a year and help us out on the O and D...

...this will happen, trust me! When it does, Dats and Zetts will be on the #1 line together and Sergei will be the #2 center. Say what you will about Flips and Huds :puke: Fedorov will step into the #2 center or even a wing on the #1 line. Feds - Dats - Zetts would be DEADLY!!!!

...in all honesty, if they could sign Forsberg as a UFA and then get Fedorov at the deadline this team will be heads and tails better than the team that went to the WCF's last season.

Zetts - Dats - Holmstrom

Fillpula - Feds - Forsberg

Sammy - Drake - Franzen

Cleary - Draper - Maltby

(Kopecky)

Lids - Kronner

Chelios - Rafalski

Lebda - Lilja

(Kindl, Quincey, Ference)

Hasek

Osgood

(Howard)

...that looks fine to me!

...BTW when Feds does come back #91 WILL be lifted to the rafters along with #5 and that is it, no others are deserving, yet...

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Under no circumstance do I ever want to see Peter Forsberg wearing a Red Wing uniform. Not only do I despise Forsberg from his past history with the Avs, I really don't want to sign a guy that is more fragile than a tooth pick. That point per game is not so impressive, when the number of games matches his jersey number. I would rather have Lang back, then to ever watch Peter Forsberg play for the Red Wings.

I would also pass on Fedorov at this point, even though the whole nostalgia thing is quite a story. Fedorov's time here has come and gone. Some of you are forgetting that Fedorov CHOSE to leave. The Red Wings can return the favor and choose to keep it that way. I don't understand why every Red Wing from the glory days has to either return to the team, or be rumored coming back. The past is the past. Sergei Fedorov was great ten years ago, not anymore. I will admit though that Fedorov could still be an asset to the Red Wings from a power-play standpoint.

Edited July 29, 2007 by GoWings1905

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Under no circumstance do I ever want to see Peter Forsberg wearing a Red Wing uniform. Not only do I despise Forsberg from his past history with the Avs, I really don't want to sign a guy that is more fragile than a tooth pick. That point per game is not so impressive, when the number of games matches his jersey number. I would rather have Lang back, then to ever watch Peter Forsberg play for the Red Wings.

I would also pass on Fedorov at this point, even though the whole nostalgia thing is quite a story. Fedorov's time here has come and gone. Some of you are forgetting that Fedorov CHOSE to leave. The Red Wings can return the favor and choose to keep it that way. I don't understand why every Red Wing from the glory days has to either return to the team, or be rumored coming back. The past is the past. Sergei Fedorov was great ten years ago, not anymore. I will admit though that Fedorov could still be an asset to the Red Wings from a power-play standpoint.

...so, you are a really huge fan of Kronwall then!

...Fedorov, 10 years ago, was great. Fedorov, today, is still better than half our team...

...get over your problem with Fedorov choosing to leave, you would do the same in his situation and it had nothing to do with the organization. He was banging Hollywood co-eds for pete's sake. He was given $48MM to come to So. Cal. play a game for a couple of hours and then rub elbows with Hollywood the rest of the evening. Grow up and realize this is a business and when he comes back and helps us to another Cup, you'll be cheering when his #91 goes up next to #19...

[OsGOD 3]

...so, you are a really huge fan of Kronwall then!

...Fedorov, 10 years ago, was great. Fedorov, today, is still better than half our team...

...get over your problem with Fedorov choosing to leave, you would do the same in his situation and it had nothing to do with the organization. He was banging Hollywood co-eds for pete's sake. He was given $48MM to come to So. Cal. play a game for a couple of hours and then rub elbows with Hollywood the rest of the evening. Grow up and realize this is a business and when he comes back and helps us to another Cup, you'll be cheering when his #91 goes up next to #19...

Spot On!

I wonder if Penner is going to get hatred from the Ducks when he goes to the Oils... he chose to leave there as well for a HELLUVA lot more money.

Edited July 29, 2007 by OsGOD

[GoWings1905 2,694]

...so, you are a really huge fan of Kronwall then!

...Fedorov, 10 years ago, was great. Fedorov, today, is still better than half our team...

...get over your problem with Fedorov choosing to leave, you would do the same in his situation and it had nothing to do with the organization. He was banging Hollywood co-eds for pete's sake. He was given $48MM to come to So. Cal. play a game for a couple of hours and then rub elbows with Hollywood the rest of the evening. Grow up and realize this is a business and when he comes back and helps us to another Cup, you'll be cheering when his #91 goes up next to #19...

at the Kronwall comment. No, I am not his biggest fan, but I hope the kid proves everyone wrong and stays healthy. Kronner has a ton of potential.

I don't have a problem with Fedorov choosing to leave honestly. I have a problem if the Red Wings decide to choose to bring him back. Fedorov is still very talented, but in what capacity will he really help the Red Wings? Playing the point on the powerplay is all I can see. We already have a ton of solid defensive forwards. Maybe surrounding Sergei with more (or any) talent around him will revive Fedorov's goal scoring, but that's not a certainty.

I understand that hockey is a business, and I don't blame Fedorov for leaving. Actually, Fedorov leaving helped the Red Wings. I was over Sergei's departure the day after it happened. So, no, I'm not bitter like you make it out to be. The Red Wings haven't exactly struggled since Fedorov left. If he does come back, I would certainly cheer for him. I cheer for anyone who puts on that jersey. I would love to be wrong about this, but adding Fedorov will not guarantee a championship. You are overstating the potential impact he would have.

* By the way, the only jersey going up next to that 19 anytime soon is the number 5.

Edited July 29, 2007 by GoWings1905

[norrisnick 1]

first off, i would like to say that i would love to get feds back at the deadline. but i was just thinking, can u imagine if he would of signed with detroit instead of the ducks? how F'd our team would be with his salary. even though we all resent him for leaving, i think it was a blessing in disguise. with him here, who knows, maybe datsyuk or zetter wouldnt of developed quickly enough, or we wouldnt of been able to sign dats, or schnieder after the lockout, and would have no cap room for this offseason either.

Had Fedorov signed with us we wouldn't have gotten Lang and probably wouldn't have re-signed Schneider.

In other words our team would have been better. Hull was the guy that was really holding the kids back because they felt obligated to funnel everything through him. Fedorov would have been on his own line or possibly with Z on his wing. I don't see how that could possibly have been a bad thing.

The team we have currently (the one Kenny is saying they're probably going to start the season with) could absorb Fedorov's contract with only a minimal amount of salary shaving here or there. Maybe Maltby doesn't re-sign. Maybe Kenny talks Pavel into taking half a million less. Etc... The team wouldn't have been crippled.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

Had Fedorov signed with us we wouldn't have gotten Lang and probably wouldn't have re-signed Schneider.

In other words our team would have been better. Hull was the guy that was really holding the kids back because they felt obligated to funnel everything through him. Fedorov would have been on his own line or possibly with Z on his wing. I don't see how that could possibly have been a bad thing.

The team we have currently (the one Kenny is saying they're probably going to start the season with) could absorb Fedorov's contract with only a minimal amount of salary shaving here or there. Maybe Maltby doesn't re-sign. Maybe Kenny talks Pavel into taking half a million less. Etc... The team wouldn't have been crippled.

Dats would have been with Sergei to learn the language and probably would have roomed with him. Plus, Sergei is a sniper. It probably would have been Feds-Dats-Z once Hull left and Yzerman and Shanny left. It used to be Yze-Feds-Shanny and Hull-Dats-Z.

As for Smyth, eh... we have Homer. I would LOVE to see Feds on D on the PP and the PK. Plus, he had a lot more vision of the ice when he played back there. He was the best end-to-end rush player the Wings ever had, the only one who comes close to him is Lebda and that is sad.

Fedorov @ the trade deadline is my dream. Re-sign him next season for around $2-2.5 mil and let him retire a Wing.

[vangvace 12]

Fedorov @ the trade deadline is my dream. Re-sign him next season for around $2-2.5 mil and let him retire a Wing.

$3.5 mil will prob be his asking price. And unless we see another jump in the cap next offseason, which I hope not, then the Wings may have to pick three of the following four Fedorov, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, and a goalie to be named later as their upcoming large contract signings.

My nightmare is that he does come back and Detroit wins the cup. Then he, Lidstrom, Chelios, Draper and Hasek all announce retirement.

Edited July 29, 2007 by vangvace

[Kp-Wings 3]

Do you consider Scott Niedermayer a great defenseman? The way Fedorov plays center and the way Niedermayer plays defense is nearly identical with the difference that at the faceoff Scott lines up closer to his own net and Sergei takes the draw.

Fedorov has better defensive awareness than 90% of the blueliners in the league. That is not something that goes away with age or declining physical ability (it's the same reason Chelios is still effective now). Jimmy Devellano has stated at many different occasions that had Fedorov played defense full time he'd have won himself a Norris or two. And I fully agree. Niedermayer has won one and finished 2nd twice. Fedorov in his prime was everything Niedermayer is/was and more.

I know a lot of people hate him, and some love him, but the extreme viewpoints being taken are just idiotic. He's not the Fedorov of '94 (no one in the league is) but he's also not Kris ******* Draper.

What's the difference if he hates playing the position though?

You said it yourself. Fedorov hated playing defense. If he is brought in to do that, he'll have a bad attitude about it, and things won't go well.

I am just surprised that people still can't get over him leaving Wings for Anaheim.

Yeah, well I'm surprised people are so nice to forgive him over that.

I'd like to disgress that I don't go out and boo the guy everytime he touches the puck like some do, but I certainly don't like him. I'll remember all the great things he did for the Wings, but the current Sergei Fedorov is not someone that I really care for.

Last year Wings get Bertuzzi and people cheered.

Bertuzzi had no emotional connection to the Wings, other than the fact that he and Chelios did not get along. Bad example.

[norrisnick 1]

What's the difference if he hates playing the position though?

You said it yourself. Fedorov hated playing defense. If he is brought in to do that, he'll have a bad attitude about it, and things won't go well.

I also said that Fedorov wouldn't be brought in to play defense. He'd be a forward. BUT... should the need arise and we're short a few defensemen, as we were last playoffs, he'd be more than capable of stepping in and doing something about it. He's the most versatile player in the league. Even in his diminished state. Scoring line, checking line, blueline, PK, PP, etc...

During his tenure as a Red Wing there was not a single player in the league I'd have traded him for. Some, possibly you, might see this as some sort of grossly inflated opinion of him, but I stand by it. Not Jagr. Not Sakic. Not Lemieux. Not Bourque. Not Forsberg. No one.

[Izzy24 44]

...nobody who is a hockey fan or knows the game resents Fedorov for leaving. He had an opportunity and he took it. He already won numerous trophies and 3 Stanley Cups. He was givin an opportunity to ake TONS of cash, live in the limelight that is So. Cal. (for pete's sake, he dated Tara Reid for a while!) He was a partier, he wanted to live a little. What would you do? Make $10MM a year and spend the night in Detroit or Los Angeles? Cripe, he still lives here in the off-season, he hasn't turned his back on Michigan, he just went a played for fun for a while. After-all isn't it all about making money? He'll be 38 in December and will be looking to try to win one more Cup and then retire by 40 (unless he has a little bit of Larionov in him.) He did us a favor by leaving, now he will come back for about $2-3MM a year and help us out on the O and D...

Who hasn't?

[Kp-Wings 3]

During his tenure as a Red Wing there was not a single player in the league I'd have traded him for. Some, possibly you, might see this as some sort of grossly inflated opinion of him, but I stand by it. Not Jagr. Not Sakic. Not Lemieux. Not Bourque. Not Forsberg. No one.

Well, it depends. If you're talking about the old Sergei Fedorov, then I can actually agree with you. He certainly was a special player in his day. I wouldn't have traded him either.

Now, though, he isn't. I really don't want him here. But, if it came down to it, and he was the best name left... and we wouldn't have to give up too much for him... I might think differently...

[norrisnick 1]

Well, it depends. If you're talking about the old Sergei Fedorov, then I can actually agree with you. He certainly was a special player in his day. I wouldn't have traded him either.

Now, though, he isn't. I really don't want him here. But, if it came down to it, and he was the best name left... and we wouldn't have to give up too much for him... I might think differently...

Fedorov from '90-'91 to '02-'03. I wouldn't trade his contributions for anyone else. No one else would have made the Wings a better team.

As for the Fedorov of now... as the last deadline showed us (and our own acquisition) odds are Sergei will be the best option to be had. Kenny won't want to be fleeced for "safer" names and Fedorov is still leaps and bounds better than the Bertuzzi we were treated to.

[FinRedWing 172]

All this homerism is turning me into anti-Feds.

And he was my favourite player AND the reason I started to support the Wings in the first place.

Nice going folks...

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Who hasn't?

I haven't dated her, or else I would have remembered. But seriously, we need a top 6 forward, and Feds isn't at that level anymore. Yeah Columbus still uses him as a 1st line center, but we're not trying to be like Columbus.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

During his tenure as a Red Wing there was not a single player in the league I'd have traded him for. Some, possibly you, might see this as some sort of grossly inflated opinion of him, but I stand by it. Not Jagr. Not Sakic. Not Lemieux. Not Bourque. Not Forsberg. No one.

Feds needs to have his number in the rafters. I'd be there with a tear in my eye for that.

All this homerism is turning me into anti-Feds.

And he was my favourite player AND the reason I started to support the Wings in the first place.

Nice going folks...

Typically "homerism" and nostalgia aren't considered interchangeable.

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

i love feds, i hope he comes back but no way in hell does he deserve his number in the rafters HELL NO! Lidstrom will be the only other red wing out of the era that will see there number rise!!

[LeftWinger 5,152]

i love feds, i hope he comes back but no way in hell does he deserve his number in the rafters HELL NO! Lidstrom will be the only other red wing out of the era that will see there number rise!!

...but he does deserve it and he will see it happen. It's already set in stone..

[Kp-Wings 3]

...but he does deserve it and he will see it happen. It's already set in stone..

It would have been set in stone had Fedorov not decided to leave.

Now, it's up in the air...

[eva unit zero 271]

I haven't dated her, or else I would have remembered. But seriously, we need a top 6 forward, and Feds isn't at that level anymore. Yeah Columbus still uses him as a 1st line center, but we're not trying to be like Columbus.

Last season for Fedorov went in three stages:

Stage 1: Healthy and playing center, Oct 23-Jan 6th

Stage 2: Playing below 100%, playing center, Jan 16th-Mar 10th

Stage 3: Playing below 100%, playing defense, Mar14th-end of season

For purposes of determining whether Fedorov is still a first line center, we'll examine his numbers during Stage 1. He played 36 games, scoring 13 goals and 15 assists. Double that, and you get almost the amount of games Fedorov actually played, with 26 goals and 30 assists for 56 points. 30th in center scoring was defensively deficient Scott Gomez with 13 goals and 60 points in 72 games. Can you SERIOUSLY suggest that Gomez' 4 point advantage makes up for Fedorov's IMMENSE advantage defensively? Hell, I would argue that the 17-22-39 in 60 games (projects to 20-26-46 over 72 games) makes Fedorov a better center than Gomez, even having played 24 of those 60 games nursing injury. Figure that's about 30% extra production. Consider that Henrik Zetterberg scored 68 in 63, which projects to 89 over 82 games. Add 30%, and you get to 116 points. Now, if you assume physical play is basically even as with Gomez v. Fedorov, would you want Zetterberg, Thornton, or Lecavalier? Zetterberg is the pretty obvious answer.

So yes, Fedorov is still a first-line caliber center. And even if he's not...he's a top end second line center...which last I checked means he's still easily a top six forward.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Last season for Fedorov went in three stages:

Stage 1: Healthy and playing center, Oct 23-Jan 6th

Stage 2: Playing below 100%, playing center, Jan 16th-Mar 10th

Stage 3: Playing below 100%, playing defense, Mar14th-end of season

For purposes of determining whether Fedorov is still a first line center, we'll examine his numbers during Stage 1. He played 36 games, scoring 13 goals and 15 assists. Double that, and you get almost the amount of games Fedorov actually played, with 26 goals and 30 assists for 56 points. 30th in center scoring was defensively deficient Scott Gomez with 13 goals and 60 points in 72 games. Can you SERIOUSLY suggest that Gomez' 4 point advantage makes up for Fedorov's IMMENSE advantage defensively? Hell, I would argue that the 17-22-39 in 60 games (projects to 20-26-46 over 72 games) makes Fedorov a better center than Gomez, even having played 24 of those 60 games nursing injury. Figure that's about 30% extra production. Consider that Henrik Zetterberg scored 68 in 63, which projects to 89 over 82 games. Add 30%, and you get to 116 points. Now, if you assume physical play is basically even as with Gomez v. Fedorov, would you want Zetterberg, Thornton, or Lecavalier? Zetterberg is the pretty obvious answer.

So yes, Fedorov is still a first-line caliber center. And even if he's not...he's a top end second line center...which last I checked means he's still easily a top six forward.

What makes you think that he will be healthy here since you just pointed out how he wasn't healthy for most of the year. As for his defensive prowess, we have more top notch defensive forwards than anyone else in the league with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper, Maltby, Cleary, Fillpulla, and Franzen. We don't need help there. I don't know what kind of 2nd line center Fillpulla will be, but at this point I'm more willing to give him a shot than Feds.