Devils sign Arron Asham

[Kp-Wings 3]

Why do you continually speak as if you are the authority on such matters?

Authority on what matter?

I'll be impressed if you've managed to survey the majority of Wings fans.

Oh, right. Because you think the team is perfect, everybody else does too.

I really don't think it's worth his time to do this to please you, and only you.

That's exactly what he does. If somebody actually says something negative, he comes in and starts pointless arguments while being an ******* at the same time.

I was under the opinion this was an actual forum, where you speak your mind and opinions. I had no idea that we had to be a bunch of blind homers and Ken Holland slappies at the same time.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

That's exactly what he does. If somebody actually says something negative, he comes in and starts pointless arguments while being an ******* at the same time.

I was under the opinion this was an actual forum, where you speak your mind and opinions. I had no idea that we had to be a bunch of blind homers and Ken Holland slappies at the same time.

I don't think anybody's being a Holland slappie, but that's a debate for another time I guess...

Would you feel differently Kp about the makeup of this team though, given that they don't drop the gloves that much, if they won the Cup last year or advanced to the SCF?

[sticknmove 0]

"I'll be impressed if you've managed to survey the majority of Wings fans."

Crymson Crymson Cryson,

"A poll conducted by The Hockey News supported Deford’s statement with 75% of those surveyed saying they liked or loved fighting in the NHL (Miller and Heika). In an article from Marketing, Wayne Karl asks if the NHL wants these types of fans “associated with this product, if these people are conducive to a long-term marketable demographic†(9). This concern has yet to present itself to the league since the NHL has managed to remain marketable throughout its 89-year history and is currently generating more revenue than ever before. Multiple studies have shown that attendance, a key source of revenue for a hockey team has a positive correlation with fighting in games."

you can now remove the foot from your mouth. moreover i found some nice stuff on Asham:

2006-07 NYI 80 games played 11 goals 12 assists 23 point +3 63 PM

Now I am not going to take the time but you should look up Drakes, Maltbys, Asham blows them out of the water, and while Hudler and Franzen have noticebly better +/- the point production is very similar. Yes Asham would have been a PERFECT fit here there is no argument, would have cost aprox $150,000.00 more then Drake which is not much in comparison of the two's production. Also remember ASham put up these numbers with the Islanders who were not terrible but not close to the talent and skill the Red Wings have so one can only imagine what ASham could have done here. I understand he is signed and its not going to happen but I figure I mine as well toss it out there in an effort to open the eyes of some here. Will it work? probably not, but its worth a try

[Kp-Wings 3]

I don't think anybody's being a Holland slappie, but that's a debate for another time I guess...

Would you feel differently Kp about the makeup of this team though, given that they don't drop the gloves that much, if they won the Cup last year or advanced to the SCF?

It's a hard call for me...

I grew up watching the Wings during the time when they had guys like McCarty, Kocur, Probert, etc. I'm used to seeing the Wings be a tough, blue-collar type team. And, believe it or not to the people who want to deny it (not saying you are SWF) the Wings were successful when they had toughness.

This team did play well in the rounds against Calgary and San Jose. But, if you watched closely, you would see that Anaheim was much, much more physical than the Wings, and wore them down. Plus, when Corey Perry went and gave Hasek a nice old punch in the face, I didn't see anyone go after him. Point proven.

I really don't care for the makeup of the team, to be honest. It's not just because there are no fighters either. This team has lost a lot of the charecter guys over the years, like Yzerman, Shanny, McCarty, and a whole list of others. I mean, we still have Chelios, Draper, Maltby, and Holmstrom, but after that it get's pretty bare.

Plus, the guys we have now really aren't that likeable, at least for me. Guys like Samulesson, Hudler, Kopecky, etc. They aren't entertaining players, or charecter guys, or really bring anything important to the table at all. Their a waste of space in my opinion, and my criticism towards Holland is him relying on these guys.

...and yes, my other complaint is the lack of fighting. I like fighting. I'm sorry if that upsets everyone around here, which it seems to for some reason. You know, if we had a couple fights once in a while, it would make these monday night matchups against Columbus just a little bit more enjoyable to watch. Some of the regular season games are just patheticly boring sometimes, and it shows with just how little the crowds at the Joe ever get exited. I mean, they do in the playoffs, but that's another story all together.

As a fan, is it so ridculous to want to watch something that's exiting for me? Everyone acts like I'm asking for the world just because I want the Wings to fight more, because that's exiting. If I wanted to watch an ass boring team that does nothing, then I'd be a New Jersey Devils fan. And even they have players that fight.

I will always be a Wings fan, no matter how Holland continues to build the team. That said, I'm not going to kiss the guys ass like some do around here, because I don't think it's warranted.

Going back to your original question: If the Wings did win the Stanley Cup, I'd probably not complain as much for not having as much toughness or fighting, but I still would. I don't care what anyone thinks of it, I still would. I like fighting, and I always have.

[eva unit zero 271]

It's a hard call for me...

I grew up watching the Wings during the time when they had guys like McCarty, Kocur, Probert, etc. I'm used to seeing the Wings be a tough, blue-collar type team. And, believe it or not to the people who want to deny it (not saying you are SWF) the Wings were successful when they had toughness.

This team did play well in the rounds against Calgary and San Jose. But, if you watched closely, you would see that Anaheim was much, much more physical than the Wings, and wore them down. Plus, when Corey Perry went and gave Hasek a nice old punch in the face, I didn't see anyone go after him. Point proven.

I really don't care for the makeup of the team, to be honest. It's not just because there are no fighters either. This team has lost a lot of the charecter guys over the years, like Yzerman, Shanny, McCarty, and a whole list of others. I mean, we still have Chelios, Draper, Maltby, and Holmstrom, but after that it get's pretty bare.

Plus, the guys we have now really aren't that likeable, at least for me. Guys like Samulesson, Hudler, Kopecky, etc. They aren't entertaining players, or charecter guys, or really bring anything important to the table at all. Their a waste of space in my opinion, and my criticism towards Holland is him relying on these guys.

...and yes, my other complaint is the lack of fighting. I like fighting. I'm sorry if that upsets everyone around here, which it seems to for some reason. You know, if we had a couple fights once in a while, it would make these monday night matchups against Columbus just a little bit more enjoyable to watch. Some of the regular season games are just patheticly boring sometimes, and it shows with just how little the crowds at the Joe ever get exited. I mean, they do in the playoffs, but that's another story all together.

As a fan, is it so ridculous to want to watch something that's exiting for me? Everyone acts like I'm asking for the world just because I want the Wings to fight more, because that's exiting. If I wanted to watch an ass boring team that does nothing, then I'd be a New Jersey Devils fan. And even they have players that fight.

I will always be a Wings fan, no matter how Holland continues to build the team. That said, I'm not going to kiss the guys ass like some do around here, because I don't think it's warranted.

Going back to your original question: If the Wings did win the Stanley Cup, I'd probably not complain as much for not having as much toughness or fighting, but I still would. I don't care what anyone thinks of it, I still would. I like fighting, and I always have.

The Wings' level of toughness had no bearing on the loss to Anaheim. The biggest single factor in determining that the Wings lost was the combination of injuries to Schneider and Kronwall. Both injuries had nothing to do with 'toughness' and more to do with freak luck.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Plus, the guys we have now really aren't that likeable, at least for me. Guys like Samulesson, Hudler, Kopecky, etc. They aren't entertaining players, or charecter guys, or really bring anything important to the table at all. Their a waste of space in my opinion, and my criticism towards Holland is him relying on these guys.

Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting. Fourth liners that would probably never have a permanent role on the Wings. Hudler and Kopecky are both young players that could possibly have a future with the Wings, while Samulesson is an inexpensive goalscorer.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting. Fourth liners that would probably never have a permanent role on the Wings. Hudler and Kopecky are both young players that could possibly have a future with the Wings, while Samulesson is an inexpensive goalscorer.

Yes, they are (especially Janssen). What is so hard to understand about that? Some people love physical, tough hockey...while others dont. You may think the world of a Datsyukian deke, whereas a Janssen fight is what does it for me.

And please dont respond with the old cliche "I like fights just as much as the next guy, BUT..."

You dont.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes, they are (especially Janssen). What is so hard to understand about that? Some people love physical, tough hockey...while others dont. You may think the world of a Datsyukian deke, whereas a Janssen fight is what does it for me.

And please dont respond with the old cliche "I like fights just as much as the next guy, BUT..."

You dont.

My worldview allows for equal enjoyment of both sicks dekes and monster haymakers.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

My worldview allows for equal enjoyment of both sicks dekes and monster haymakers.

So that means you're only halfway entertained by the WIngs?

I think the misconception by alot of people about guys like myself is that we need to see a fight every single game in order to be happy. Thats not true. Just the mere possibility that one COULD happen is sometimes all it takes! Constantly watching who's out there and the anticipation factor is a game within the game for me. If Janssen were in our lineup, I'd be glued to him every second. Whether or not he even fights, it entertains me regardless. And at the same time, it also makes everything else going on in the game, including those dekes and goals, seem more exciting! So you could say having a couple fighters is like the straw that stirs the drink. Without their presence, the games become boring...and in some cases, unwatchable.

[sticknmove 0]

"Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting"

Yes they are, I am curious to how much hockey you watch.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

"Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting"

Yes they are, I am curious to how much hockey you watch.

Just because somebody might not think some players as are exciting or don't fight as much doesn't mean that person doesn't watch hockey.

[Barnes52 0]

Man, talk about living in the past. I highly suggest you get NHL Center Ice then, and tune in for every Ducks game, will that make you happy? Jayzus, what a caveman. Wings haven't been about fighting for some time. Accept the team Holland assembles, and be happy they are a perennial contender. f***.

Talk about living in the past? Signing guys like Maltby when Cleary, Kopecky and Draker can do as much for less? Signing him was living in the past. How about Holland saying he has to save money to sign Draper? Talk about living in the past. Holland signs former Wings players because he's living in the past....

[Kp-Wings 3]

Yet fringe players like Asham and Cam Janssen are exciting. Fourth liners that would probably never have a permanent role on the Wings. Hudler and Kopecky are both young players that could possibly have a future with the Wings, while Samulesson is an inexpensive goalscorer.

Man alive. I can't believe the amount of people brainwashed by Holland.

What's the point of having guys like Hudler, Kopecky, or Samulesson on the 4th line when they don't do anything? Why not have someone like Asham or Janssen play that role and at least make the game exiting?

...and please, I don't want to here the old, famous LGW cliche "You don't think a Datsyuk deke is exiting?????!!!!!11", because that's the lamest comeback I've ever seen, and is nowhere close to the level of a good scrap.

Also, I'm curious to know how you think Hudler, Kopecky, and Samulesson are more exiting players then Asham or Janssen. Please tell me. Kopecky and Samulesson are not even NHL calibre players, especially Kopecky. He's a useless as Josh Langfeld. What the hell has this world come to when a guy is 6'3, and yet, doesn't play an ounce of a physical game at all?

Same applys for Samulesson. Inexpensive goalscorer? Yeah, so was Jason Williams, and everyone hated him too. You're not taking into account that while Samulesson may be a 20 goal scorer (just like Williams), he's so useless in every other catagory of the game.

As for Hudler, I think he's just as useless, and is not needed on this team. Is that what we really need, is another small center? Besides that, he would be totally useless in a playoff series against someone like Anaheim. So why exactly should we keep him on the roster, and not have a fighter?

Ugh, I swear. Holland has most of you guys all brainwashed. Either that, or you didn't become a Wings fan until 2005, and aren't used to seeing physical hockey.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Man alive. I can't believe the amount of people brainwashed by Holland.

Brainwashed? That's a strong word.

What's the point of having guys like Hudler, Kopecky, or Samulesson on the 4th line when they don't do anything? Why not have someone like Asham or Janssen play that role and at least make the game exiting?

Because Hudler still did make the game exciting to an extent when he was out there. Samulesson to a lesser extent. You can't tell me those other two guys would make the game significantly more exciting than the others to get me to say, "Damn, I got to see a Red Wings just because Asham and Janssen are on the team!"

...and please, I don't want to here the old, famous LGW cliche "You don't think a Datsyuk deke is exiting?????!!!!!11", because that's the lamest comeback I've ever seen, and is nowhere close to the level of a good scrap.

Great goals and fights are both entertaining in their own ways.

Also, I'm curious to know how you think Hudler, Kopecky, and Samulesson are more exiting players then Asham or Janssen. Please tell me. Kopecky and Samulesson are not even NHL calibre players, especially Kopecky. He's a useless as Josh Langfeld. What the hell has this world come to when a guy is 6'3, and yet, doesn't play an ounce of a physical game at all?

See above on my excitement reasons...

Kopecky, the verdict is still out on him, but Samulesson has proven he can be a respectable 2nd/3rd line guy. Not the main goal scorer, but these past two seasons he's found a decent role for himself and the Wings, his first full seasons of respectable production in his career I think.

Same applys for Samulesson. Inexpensive goalscorer? Yeah, so was Jason Williams, and everyone hated him too. You're not taking into account that while Samulesson may be a 20 goal scorer (just like Williams), he's so useless in every other catagory of the game.

Perhaps. The verdict would still be out. Williams was on the Wings longer than Samuelsson right now, so we'll wait and see.

As for Hudler, I think he's just as useless, and is not needed on this team. Is that what we really need, is another small center? Besides that, he would be totally useless in a playoff series against someone like Anaheim. So why exactly should we keep him on the roster, and not have a fighter?

Sorry, but 15 goals scored in the extremely limited time he had is far from useless. He made some pretty good use of his limited time I think, which was often chump change. Nobody is saying he's the next Mario Lemieux but I think his value is a bit higher than a fighter who is only going to play 3-4 minutes a game and net 3-4 goals a year.

Ugh, I swear. Holland has most of you guys all brainwashed. Either that, or you didn't become a Wings fan until 2005, and aren't used to seeing physical hockey.

I've watched hockey since the mid-90s, I've seen the more "physical" team from 1997-98 win a Cup, I've seen the less "physical" team win a Cup in 2002.

Brainwashed would mean that there's a cult invovled. I don't think there is a Red Wings or Holland cult. You like the team to be built a bit differently, that's fine. Some are pretty content seeing the roster as is, and you know this roster made a pretty deep run to win the Cup. We just don't know if a "fighter" is just going to make that much of a difference to all of a sudden say, "HOLY S**T! Asham has just made the Wings Cup contenders even more!"

Again, people aren't brainwashed. They just view the team differently than you. And , when I hear from other credible NHL sources (players/coaches throughout the year) that Holland is one of the better GMs in the league, I'm taking their words over the words of sport forum armchair GM QBs who have no experience in running a sports franchise. I don't have links/sources off the top of my head as I know you and others are going to ask, "Who said this and that about Holland?", but I have read them in the past.

Edited August 11, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[HenryMalredo 2]

Ugh, I swear. Holland has most of you guys all brainwashed. Either that, or you didn't become a Wings fan until 2005, and aren't used to seeing physical hockey.

Maybe you don't remember, but the physical players that the Wings had during their prime in the nineties actually could play hockey, unlike the fringe players that many are clamoring for the Wings to sign.

[Doctor G 0]

Maybe you don't remember, but the physical players that the Wings had during their prime in the nineties actually could play hockey, unlike the fringe players that many are clamoring for the Wings to sign.

True the Red Wings touch guys through the years could provide some solid goal scoring and play good hockey when needed. I artibute that to Jimmy D., he had a very good eye for fighters who could play the game. But I hate to say this you do not see as many of that type of player that you used to. There is a few, but you have to really look..

KP: I agree with what you have said in this post, but even your solid arguments will not convince these guys. You have a faction on this site that dislikes fighting and no matter what you say will make them change their minds. But as I have said before you will not see an enforcer type on this team until Holland moves on.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Maybe you don't remember, but the physical players that the Wings had during their prime in the nineties actually could play hockey, unlike the fringe players that many are clamoring for the Wings to sign.

You keep acting like Arron Asham has no ability. Do you not realize he's scored over 10 goals in 3 of the last 4 seasons? And the one where he had 9, he missed around 20 games. I challenge you to find another player, aside from Chris Simon, who's as tough as Asham and can make a similar claim?

[Guest Crymson]

You keep acting like Arron Asham has no ability. Do you not realize he's scored over 10 goals in 3 of the last 4 seasons? And the one where he had 9, he missed around 20 games. I challenge you to find another player, aside from Chris Simon, who's as tough as Asham and can make a similar claim?

Jarome Iginla,

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Jarome Iginla,

Nope, Asham's tougher than Iginla.

(and Shanahan too, if thats where you're going next)

[Guest Crymson]

Nope, Asham's tougher than Iginla.

(and Shanahan too, if thats where you're going next)

Please qualify your 'toughness meter.'

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Please qualify your 'toughness meter.'

Well since we're talking about fighting in this thread, its toughness as in who's the better fighter.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Talk about living in the past? Signing guys like Maltby when Cleary, Kopecky and Draker can do as much for less? Signing him was living in the past. How about Holland saying he has to save money to sign Draper? Talk about living in the past. Holland signs former Wings players because he's living in the past....

Exactly! Signing Maltby for 3yrs was absolutely ridiculous, and there is nothing anyone can say to make me feel otherwise. And saving money for Draper? You dont not acquire players because of Draper. If its manageable to keep him, then re-sign him, but you dont avoid signing a free agent that can have an impact on the future because you need to save money for Draper. Come on...

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

True the Red Wings touch guys through the years could provide some solid goal scoring and play good hockey when needed. I artibute that to Jimmy D., he had a very good eye for fighters who could play the game. But I hate to say this you do not see as many of that type of player that you used to. There is a few, but you have to really look..

KP: I agree with what you have said in this post, but even your solid arguments will not convince these guys. You have a faction on this site that dislikes fighting and no matter what you say will make them change their minds. But as I have said before you will not see an enforcer type on this team until Holland moves on.

What you just said is probably the best answer to sum up this whole discussion thread. Every time a fighting argument is brought up, most people here will instantly say that an enforcer takes up roster spots, and that in today's league there's no need for an enfocer, or that it doesn't fit with the Wings' plans, etc. I am convinced, though, that if we were to sign an enforcer, all the anti-fighting people would immediately jump to the other side of the fence and embrace the fact that we would finally have an enforcer.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

What you just said is probably the best answer to sum up this whole discussion thread. Every time a fighting argument is brought up, most people here will instantly say that an enforcer takes up roster spots, and that in today's league there's no need for an enfocer, or that it doesn't fit with the Wings' plans, etc. I am convinced, though, that if we were to sign an enforcer, all the anti-fighting people would immediately jump to the other side of the fence and embrace the fact that we would finally have an enforcer.

I agree 100%. I mean, look at the complete flip flop towards Lilja after he fought Moen and then Sharp. Everyone hates him, he fights, then suddenly he has fans. People act like fighting doesnt matter, yet when one of the Wings does it, they love it.

[Guest Crymson]

Exactly! Signing Maltby for 3yrs was absolutely ridiculous, and there is nothing anyone can say to make me feel otherwise.

Ouch, close down the polls, we lose.