man do i miss stuff like this,....

[Opie 308]

About time I see someone else who thinks Reed Low would be a good addition. I mentioned this in a different group and was lambasted with people saying fighting is not an important part of the game. Anywas another reason a fighter would be good is that violence sells. The Joe looked empty most of last season.

Much like it had nothing to do with the wings losing the series to Anaheim, fighting has nothing to do with those empty seats. Sure maybe a few people would say that if there were more fights they would go more. But those seats were empty due to:

economic distress

Corporations owning a lot of the lower bowl.

Fighting is not the reason for every short coming the wings may have experienced in the past 10 years.

[eva unit zero 271]

"Because he doesn't encourage fighting when it isn't necessary?

Or because he disagrees with you......"

Neither smarta*s, because he disregards 7 examples of how the wings stood by and DID NOTHING after a teamate was absolutely run over and jumps to the Markov Stoll incident. Moreover I am going to go further in saying you are worse then him, you actually make him look like a hockey scholar.

"I think they are all a vital element to any team and something you can never have enough of. I just don't see the logic in dedicating a roster spot to a guy whos only going to dress 10-15 games when it could be better served to a rookie. If we lacked depth and no one was ready to step in, than ok maybe to fill the roster but we've got guys knocking on the door. "

How long was Liv on the Roster? Or Meech, or Ellis or some other WASTE as you like to call it. Why not fill one of those spots with a guy that can police for our team.

"I know you guys dont think we're tough enough because we don't have anybody known for fighting, but what practical solution do you offer up to fix that? Naming off unavailable players does not help your cause."

No no no, i dont think that we are not tough enough, I know we arent tough enough. Well my practical solution would have been to sign Aaron Asham before he was signed, since that happened I have yet to bring up any names but now that you ask I will give you some UNSIGNED names. I pick Reed Low, yes cause he can fight, but more to see ppl like you on this forum cry like 8 year olds.

Asham looks like a good fit on the surface, but as Ihave said many times since he signed with the Devils for LESS THAN HE WAS MAKING BEFORE, there are one of two situations that caused Asham to sign the deal with the Devils. Either he wanted to stay in the NY area and was willing to take a pay cut to do it, which meant Detroit had NO CHANCE at signing him, or he had locker room issues and the cap-troubled Devils were the only team willing to take a chance on him. I would bet on the former, but either way, he wasn't coming to Detroit. He was no more available than Chris Neil is now. A fourth-line, part-time enforcer who only plays games when the opponent is a 'tough' team and only plays a few minutes will likely spend most nights in the playoffs in a suit, not a uniform. The Wings need players who can contribute in more ways than just fighting. Players like those are generally hard to come by, and despite popular opinion Holland has made efforts to acquire those guys (Clark, Chelios, Bertuzzi, Witt, etc.)

[sticknmove 0]

"Ummm Liv was a goaltender, are you suggesting the wings cut a player who at the time was the supposed future of the wings in the net, to get a fighter on the ice."

You are a retard, I am sorry thats all I can say. First off Liv was never looked at as the wings future. Second of all he was one of the 3 or four people I used as an example of taking up a roster spot yet didnt dress every night thus supporting my argument that just b/c you have an enforcer does not mean he has to play every regular season game, only the ones where it look like he may be needed.

"Maybe he actually considers things in hockey OTHER THAN fighting. You know, like good goaltending, having a few good scorers, decent coaching, etc."

I take back what I said about the post above, YOU take the cake when it comes to absolute asinine comments that really hold zero substance. Let me begin with garunteeing you that I have forgotten more about hockey then you will ever know. It is quite evident you never played hockey, at least at a competitive, non pickup/beer league level. Maybe in am focusing on the enforcer aspect more then the others because we allready have the other areas covered you twit. Goaltending=no worries, skill players/goal scorers=no worries, coaching=no worries, toughness/enforcer=NONE ON THE ROSTER.

[Heaton 1]

skill players/goal scorers=no worries

Are you sure you're looking at the 2007-2008 Detroit Red Wings roster? There's more worries about skill players and goal scorers than almost anything else this year.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I take back what I said about the post above, YOU take the cake when it comes to absolute asinine comments that really hold zero substance. Let me begin with garunteeing you that I have forgotten more about hockey then you will ever know. It is quite evident you never played hockey, at least at a competitive, non pickup/beer league level. Maybe in am focusing on the enforcer aspect more then the others because we allready have the other areas covered you twit. Goaltending=no worries, skill players/goal scorers=no worries, coaching=no worries, toughness/enforcer=NONE ON THE ROSTER.

You have FORGOTTEN about hockey?

Ah, the old "I know more about you comment" since I've played, or FORGOTTEN in this case, about hockey and you haven't.

And nope, I've never played hockey because there's no ice down here. You want to supply some from up north? I'd appreciate it!

I guess because I've never played hockey, I know so little about it. Let's see, the game starts at center ice with a face-off. The puck has to be the first object across the blue line or it's offside. The team that scores the most goals wins the game. A minor penalty is worth 2:00, a major penalty is worth 5:00.

Yep, I know or have FORGOTTEN some things about this game, probably just as much as you know and have FORGOTTEN about this game!

Edited August 24, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

You are a retard, I am sorry thats all I can say.

I take back what I said about the post above, YOU take the cake when it comes to absolute asinine comments that really hold zero substance. Let me begin with garunteeing you that I have forgotten more about hockey then you will ever know. It is quite evident you never played hockey, at least at a competitive, non pickup/beer league level. Maybe in am focusing on the enforcer aspect more then the others because we allready have the other areas covered you twit. Goaltending=no worries, skill players/goal scorers=no worries, coaching=no worries, toughness/enforcer=NONE ON THE ROSTER.

You dont have anything else to say because calling people names is the most intelligent thing you can come up with to try and prove your point. Works wonders by the way.

The rest of your post shows your somewhere around puberty I PLAY HOCKEY AND YOU DONT!!! hahaha

[gbdet 0]

Agreed. Those players are few and far between these days. The ones who are out there aren't going to be had for anything less than top dollar. Who or what would we be willing to give up to get such a player? Would it be worth it?

As for toughness and the playoffs, I am sure someone said it before, but there is a distinction between someone who can get dirty in the corners, take crosschecks and cheap shots, and come back for more and someone who throws right hands like Kocur used to. Do I wish we had a fighter? Sure, but he better be able to do more than fight.

After Homer took that hit from Pronger and Neidemayer, got stitched up, came back in the 3rd period and made the impact that he did in the game, I would take a team full of guys like Homer and Cleary rather than guys like Laraque and Boogaard. Homer IS a tough SOB.

I would also take a team full of Cleary's and Homer's over Boogaard's or Laraque's.... but I would denfinetly take Boogaard over Kopecky or Maltby... playoffs or not...

like Scneider said about "Nuclear weapons"(enforcers)... if the other team has 1 you want to have 2, maybe that has something to do with why he chose to go to Anaheim.

Does anyone remember Lecavalier vs Iginla in the finals? Oh wait... I forgot there's no fighting in the playoffs...

[norrisnick 1]

Does anyone remember Lecavalier vs Iginla in the finals? Oh wait... I forgot there's no fighting in the playoffs...

That is the perfect example of fighting having a place in hockey. Two elite players and intense competitors going at each other so much it comes to blows. That is something I have no problem with at all. The problem I have is with guys clamoring for fighters just for the sake of having a fighter. Or the 90% of hockey fights that serve no further purpose than two talentless hacks trying to justify their existence in the league by squaring off. The goon/enforcer system is dying. And I say good riddance.

[norrisnick 1]

Again that's just settling for scraps just because they can/will fight.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

That is the perfect example of fighting having a place in hockey. Two elite players and intense competitors going at each other so much it comes to blows. That is something I have no problem with at all. The problem I have is with guys clamoring for fighters just for the sake of having a fighter. Or the 90% of hockey fights that serve no further purpose than two talentless hacks trying to justify their existence in the league by squaring off. The goon/enforcer system is dying. And I say good riddance.

Yeah sure, good riddance. Now we can finally watch baseball on ice.

[Opie 308]

Basketball would have been a better reference in that argument GMRwings.

I know you were exaggerating but the only time in baseball anyone person competes against another is pitcher and batter.

Plus in basketball last year Steve Nash (a canadian no wonder he took it so well) took a wicked check from Robert Horry although the fights in Baseball are a little more like hockey fights, in basketball it is a bunch of guys looking to sucker punch and run.

I agree with NN, having a fighter to have a fighter is bad business practice. This is why Sean Avery got what he got for money and why many of you think he deserves more. He has shown offensive talent (with more than just his mouth) and he will agitiate, however he fights about as often as Maltby.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Basketball would have been a better reference in that argument GMRwings.

I know you were exaggerating but the only time in baseball anyone person competes against another is pitcher and batter.

Plus in basketball last year Steve Nash (a canadian no wonder he took it so well) took a wicked check from Robert Horry although the fights in Baseball are a little more like hockey fights, in basketball it is a bunch of guys looking to sucker punch and run.

I agree with NN, having a fighter to have a fighter is bad business practice. This is why Sean Avery got what he got for money and why many of you think he deserves more. He has shown offensive talent (with more than just his mouth) and he will agitiate, however he fights about as often as Maltby.

Baseball fights are like watching 2 girls trying to scrape each other's eyes out. Don't get me wrong, I don't expect it to be Hagler v. Hearnes when those idiots throw down, but to even call baseball altercations fights is a disgrace to anyone who's ever been in a real fight.

[Opie 308]

That was sort of the point F.

[sticknmove 0]

"That was sort of the point F."

What exactly is the point, Maltby does fight? Avery doesnt? They both dont? I mean do you watch hockey? There is absolutely NO COMPARISON between Avery and Maltby when it comes to fighting, zero.

Sean Avery season fight count:

2002-2003 Regular Season (11)

2003-2004 Preseason (2)

2003-2004 Regular Season (14)

2005-2006 Regular Season (8)

2006-2007 Preseason (1)

2006-2007 Regular Season (4)

2006-2007 Postseason (1)

TOTAL SINCE 02-03= 41 Fighting Majors

Kirk Maltby season fight count:

2002-2003 Regular (1)

2003-2004 Regular Season (2)

2003-2004 Postseason (1)

2005-2006 Regular Season (1)

TOTAL since 02-03= 5 Fighting Majors.

*Wow great comparison bro, I think you should double check before you make such asinine comparisons, or as you put is "points"

"I guess because I've never played hockey, I know so little about it. Let's see, the game starts at center ice with a face-off. The puck has to be the first object across the blue line or it's offside. The team that scores the most goals wins the game. A minor penalty is worth 2:00, a major penalty is worth 5:00."

You said it not me, however I was correct in assuming you had never played the sport, the rest of your reply is abble rhetoric that to tell you the truth i did not take the time to really read. Thank you for the penalty minute times, you forgot to metion that the vast majority of minor penaltys are not matching, where as the vast majortiy of fighting majors are in fact matching, meaning, you do not put your team a man down. But it was a cute attempt to be witty.

Found this interesting, an archive article from mlive.com. I mean the players want an enforcer, why do some here not?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, October 01, 2006

Players prefer Norton

The Wings will make their final cuts Monday and it's anybody's guess who will get the 13th forward spot, the only roster spot up for grabs. Krys Kolanos, Matt Hussey and Brad Norton are competing for it.

I was talking to a few players who said they hope Norton gets the job. They think they need a big, tough guy on the roster. Even if he only plays 3-4 minutes a night and sits out a lot of games, they feel they need that kind of presence.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edited August 26, 2007 by sticknmove

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

You said it not me, however I was correct in assuming you had never played the sport, the rest of your reply is abble rhetoric that to tell you the truth i did not take the time to really read.

So because someone didn't play hockey they are less knowledgeable about the game? I guess you don't think much of Scotty Bowman then. lol

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

You said it not me, however I was correct in assuming you had never played the sport, the rest of your reply is abble rhetoric that to tell you the truth i did not take the time to really read. Thank you for the penalty minute times, you forgot to metion that the vast majority of minor penaltys are not matching, where as the vast majortiy of fighting majors are in fact matching, meaning, you do not put your team a man down. But it was a cute attempt to be witty.

I could list some more things in showing a know the sport a little bit, since you acknowledged my witty attempt.

A double minor penalty is 4:00, often the result of a high sticking penalty where a player gets cut on the face.

There are plenty of common penalties in hockey, such as hooking, interference, goalie interference, high sticking, cross checking, slashing, and tripping.

There are a few variety of ways to shoot a puck, including a slap shot, wrist shot, snap shot, and backhander.

The goalie crease area is usually blue (hey had to throw a "cute" and witty smart-ass reference in there )

Icing occurs when a player in possession with the puck behind the center ice line shoots it down the ice and it goes past the goal line behind the net, preventing the opposing team from realistically playing the puck.

A professional game at least consists of 3 20-minute periods.

A one-timer results from the receiver of a pass immediately shooting the puck while it was still in motion.

I could list some more for ya if you want. Hopefully this proves that even though I don't play hockey, I've seen enough of it to show that I can discuss with people that have played it and have "high standards" about discussing it with people who don't play the sport. But, it could just serve as another cute and witty post with gibberish where you will only take the time to selectively read what you want.

Edited August 26, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[sticknmove 0]

Ok, you showed me I guess. That last post gave you and all your furile arguments a lot more credit.

Ok, you showed me I guess. That last post gave you and all your futile arguments a lot more credit. And by the way you are acting now, and that last post, you are about 10-11? You still have some time to give hockey a shot, you should try it out

Edited August 26, 2007 by sticknmove

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Ok, you showed me I guess. That last post gave you and all your furile arguments a lot more credit.

Ok, you showed me I guess. That last post gave you and all your futile arguments a lot more credit. And by the way you are acting now, and that last post, you are about 10-11? You still have some time to give hockey a shot, you should try it out

Nah, 26.

I tore my ACL/MCL playing pickup basketball in college so any sports are out of the question. *shrugs*

[DaKineMaui 8]

That is the perfect example of fighting having a place in hockey. Two elite players and intense competitors going at each other so much it comes to blows. That is something I have no problem with at all. The problem I have is with guys clamoring for fighters just for the sake of having a fighter. Or the 90% of hockey fights that serve no further purpose than two talentless hacks trying to justify their existence in the league by squaring off. The goon/enforcer system is dying. And I say good riddance.

I have always enjoyed your cogent posts.....and this is still the issue that we'll never get square.

Shame.

I'd offer you a big manly hetero-hug right now, but I think you'd call for a 10 game suspension.

Listen to the last 1/2 minute of that #24 v Domi footage: "um who knows, if I go and run someone on his team he'll be right there in my face, and vice versa".

I think the ones that accept the blows to the forehead/nose/chin/neck/ears/eye/brow/nose and nose again know better than you or I.

Maybe you're right and these guys are buggy-whips today. Then I'm sad.

I'm gonna watch that Bruins v. Wings youtube instead of any upcoming preseason s***.

aloha