Phoenix Coyotes

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Ok, Now I really like some of the guys on Phoenix, and there defence core isnt bad. But there goalies and forwards are just terrible IMO. I was thinking about it today watching the NHL Networks season preview. Look at the depth chart for a second.

LW:

Steve Reinprecht: Decent top 6 guy, top line LW? I think not.

Fredrik Sjostrom: More of an energy guy, cant put up more then 40-45 points tops imo.

Mathias Tjarnqvist: AHLer, part of the Nagy deal, but not a good player.

Daniel Carcillo: He's a rookie, and has the potential to be much better,but for right now, not a great NHLer.

C:

Peter Mueller: He's a young guy, but with a supporting cast that isnt great, I dont know if he can do it (Be a number 1 centermen that is)

Mike York: Ask Keith Jones how bad this guy was this year, I dont think playing with Sjostrom and Vrbata will help him at all.

Mike Zigomanis: AHLer, may be on an all AHLer line this year with Tjarnqvist and Thomas.

Niko Kapanen: He's ok, got some skill, but on the Yotes, I think he wont be much if anything this season.

RW:

Shane Doan: Great guy, good for 30 goals, but cannot do it all by himself.

Radim Vrbata: I dont think he's very good, he's soft but has some skill, with York feeding him the puck, he may put up decent numbers.

Bill Thomas: AHLer, has potential to be better, but right now, not a very good player.

Josh Gratton: Love the guy, he's a great enforcer, and I hear he's a laugh. But other then Doan, and maybe Jovo/Boynton, is gonna have to the one tough guy on this team.

D:

Ed Jovanovski: Best defenceman on there team, is a number one guy.

Keith Ballard: Has alot of potential, he's tough and a good defenceman.

Zbynek Michalek: Alright player, it'll depend on how Morris does.

Derek Morris: I like him, but if he and Michalek dont get good chesmitry, there in trouble.

Nick Boynton: I'm not even sure he'll be playing, but good tough guy, and an alright d-man.

Matt Jones: No idea who he is, I doubt he'll round out this d-corps well.

G:

David Aebischer: He off season in Montreal will hurt him, 10-15 wins in probable IMO.

Mikael Tellqvist : He played great for the Yotes last year, not sure about this year.

Alex Auld: Probably the best goalie they've got, his season in Florida will hurt him, He could have 10-15 wins this year.

Add into all this, LA, Anaheim, San Jose and Dallas are in there division. And there in a very tough western conference.

My prediction: They come in last in the league, but Wayne survives, they take a pretty good player with there pick (Steven Stamkos or Alex Peterangelo). Bring in Turris and who knows for the 08/09 season. But for now, this is gonna be a long year for the 'Yotes.

Thoughts?

Edited October 2, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[MacK_Attack 108]

They'll be competing with the Oilers in the Steven Stamkos sweepstakes.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Sadly, Phoenix is doomed to spend most of their season bent over a table, courtesy of Calgary, Vancouver, San Jose, Anaheim, and probably LA too. They have a half dozen good players to build around, if they made the right moves they could have a nice-looking team in just 2-3 years. Unforunately they are a poorly-managed team and play in a very tough division, so I think they will continue to languish near the bottom of the league for the forseeable future.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Phoenix probably will be very bad this season. Gretzky is still the coach.

I have some notes on their players though. While the talent level is pretty thin on that team, you are rating some of those guys pretty bad.

Mike York was bad last year because he played on a very bad team. While I really don't care for him all that much, I firmly believe he's better then what his stats show. He scored 26 goals his rookie season, and has had solid production in his career on plenty of non-playoff teams (NY Rangers, Edmonton, and NY Islanders).

Mike Zigomanis is not stricly an AHL player. He's a good defensive forward, and probably the best PK player the Coyotes have. I like him personally, and he's not as bad as you say. He wasn't an all AHL'er last year, either, considering he played 75 games.

Sjostrom was a high end 1st round pick a few years ago. I believe on a good team he could put up decent numbers. Playing on Phoenix won't get him anywhere, but if he was given a decent supporting cast, you would see his numbers improve greatly.

Bill Thomas has decent scoring potential... not stricly an AHL player.

Michalek can be a good defenseman without Morris, although he's playing with him anyways, so that doesn't matter. He has a good mix of offensive and defensive capabilities, which makes him a versitile player. His stats would probably improve if he played on a good team.

I don't think you are giving some of their players enough credit. Some of these guys are decent players: their stats just don't show it because the Coyotes suck so much.

With that said: my personal prediction is a dead last finish for Phoenix. If not dead last, then at least 15th in the West, and somewhere like 28th or 29th overall.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[TheBadOne 0]

Well, I live in Phoenix and have been following the Coyotes since I've gotten here. That said, they weent 3-2-3 in the pre-season, which was good enough to be tied for 6th in the conference. There's a few players missing from your list, as well as those who've had a good camp and have convinced me the Coyotes will show improvement from last season. That said, here's the players that made the team and where I'd like to see them at (and my justifcations as to why):

First Line: York-Kapanen-Doan

- York didn't manage to score any goals during the preseason. He did, however, have 4 assists in 5 games and come out +3. It's also worth noting that he developed better chemistry with the team as the pre-season progressed.

- For being subjected to 3rd line minutes, Kapanen made the best of his camp and preseason. He put up 4 points in 4 games (1-3) and held for an even plus/minus.

- Doan was the only player on the Coyotes team during the preseason that exceeded a point per game, putting up 5 points in 4 games with a +1.

Second Line: Carcillo-Hanzal-Vrbata

- Martin Hanzal, a 20 year old who's definitely got size, had an impressive camp, posted 6 pts in 7 games (3-3) while having an even plus/minus.

- Vrbata was the second leading scorer for the Blackhawks last year and has every indication of keeping up the trend, posting 5 points in 6 games. However, his -3 could stand to be improved.

- Carcillo, while a rookie, has a hard-nose for the net and seems to find anyway possible to score. He very well could be the breakout player of the year. He was -2, but put up 5 points in 6 games in addition to two fighting majors. He's going to emerge in the mold of a Shanahan, Avery, or Tucker. Should be entertaining.

(this line in particular showed a great deal of energy during the pre-season.)

Third Line: Reinprecht - Tjarnqvist - Sjostrom

- Reinprecht was invisible during the preseason and couldn't seemingly contribute offensively or defensively. They'll probably put him on the first line in place of Kapanen, whether or not he should rightfully be there is another story.

- Tjarnqvist didn't put up electrifying numbers, but he did maintain a postive plus/minus.

- Same goes for Sjostrom, and he's a relatively young player.

Fourth Line: Gratton - Zigomanis - Weller

- Gratton won't be on the ice opening night because his hands are both in casts. However, Gretzky really likes the guy's role as the team enforcer. He can be interchanged in and out of the lineup, but has his spot on the 4th unit to make sure no one else is abused. He had two fighting majors in one game before breaking his hand.

- Zigomanis is a decent 4th liner and an excellent penalty killer for the Coyotes. He ended the preseason with an even plus/minus.

- Weller is also not one likely to be on the ice opening night. He has been a career minor-leaguer, but could be a suitable backup to Gratton. He had two fighting majors in the preseason and finished the preseason +2.

Forward Reserves: Winnik will likely be on the 4th line during opening night. He was a 9th rounder that's fitting the mold of a role player at the highest level. With his big body, they hope he can develop other tools at the NHL level.

I purposely omitted Mueller from this list. Based on what I've seen, he isn't ready to compete at the NHL level. He has all the physical tools, but I doubt he has the mental maturity for it. What I'd like to see is for him to take the place of Gratton on the 4th line until he returns from injuries, and then go to junior until their season is over. I'd like to see him fight for a top-6 position next season than for Gretzky to continue to experiment with him and hinder his development.

As for Defense:

First Line: Jovanovski - Michalek

- JovoCop had a decent preseason. He wasn't the most prolific defenseman, but kept his plus/minus in positive terrirotry. A healthy JovoCop will mean a better season for the Desert Dogs.

- Michalek is not a top 4 in his prime, but is young and still getting his game together. JovoCop can act as an efficient mentor to him and can look to make him improve.

Second Line: Morris - Ballard

- Morris was the most prolific defenseman in terms of points, but his -5 is frightening for a defenseman. He needs to work on his defensive abilities in addition to his offensive prowess.

- Ballard is a great defenseman who didn't have a spectacular camp. He isn't proven, but the future is bright for him.

Third Line: Boynton - Jones

- Boynton had a respectable camp as a defensive defenseman. He also brings an element of toughness to the squad as well.

- Jones is an adequate 6th defenseman, nothing more, nothing less.

Since the Coyotes are only carrying 6 defensemen, I'll stop there.

Goaltenders:

Starter: Tellqvist

Backup: Auld

Guy in press box waiting for a trade: Aebischer

- Tellqvist commanded a respectable 2.76 GAA and a .905 save percentage while being able to lead the team to victory. The team plays well in front of him.

- The numbers were deceiving for Auld. Though he had the best GAA and save percentage of any other goalie competing for an NHL job (1.9 and .918, respectively) he went 0-1-2. His rebounds were his biggest problem and the team didn't necessarily prepare to have to compensate for them. If he works on that, he could take the starting job away from Tellqvist.

- While the team won a game with Aebischer in net, his .86 save percentage and 3.21 GAA is inexcusable for an NHL goaltender. He was the weakest goaltender of the camp and isn't showing anyone that he's the goalie he used to be in Colorado, pre-lockout.

In terms of who they face, I'm really only concerned with Anaheim and San Jose. L.A. looks a lot better than they did last year, but may still face consistency issues, while Dallas is appearing to be a fading team to me (and most likely the first team Phoenix will supplant in their rise in the rankings.) Anaheim is downgraded from last year, but still has a great line up, while SJ is picked by many to go all the way this year. They were able to beat Anaheim in pre-season action, but may not be able to have that same intensity all the way through the regular season. The secret in that lies in how many fighters they can dress against Anaheim. San Jose however, they're just going to have to be very cunning.

Once more of their prospects pan out, I think the Coyotes can start entertaining the idea of entering the playoffs. It's a longshot for them to even get the 8th seed this season, but if they manage to pull it off, I can't say I'd be entirely surprised. They're starting to look like the Penguins of the West to me, and I think that's how things are going to end up for them.

[Hank 0]

They'll be competing with the Oilers in the Steven Stamkos sweepstakes.

Or the John Tavares sweepstakes.

But I really like Hanzel and Mueller. The Coyotes have some bright spots. But it'll be a while before they're a good team. They could even be the Hamilton Coyotes by then.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

TheBadOne- thanks for the local run down. I lived in Phoenix up until 2004, so I've been a Coyotes fan as well as a Wings fan since they changed from the Jets.

I really hope they improve from the season they had last year, but I really wonder how that's possible. Maybe a healthy Jovo will help. But poor Doan, he really doesn't have much of a supporting cast.

I would be shocked if they were anything but at the bottom of the league again. Especially with Gretzky behind the bench. Of course he doesn't have much to work with.

Edited October 2, 2007 by Wings_Fan_In_Exile

[Winged Scooter 0]

I think Phoenix really is the most irrelevant team in the league right now.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

They can't be any worse then they've been the last few years. You never know, maybe they'll develop some team chemistry with these jobbers and overachieve a little. However, I don't see Gretzky as the kind of coach that can bring this group together. Well, at least no one can say they'll underachieve anymore.

[union drone 0]

My prediction: Gretzky realizes that Phoenix is going to be a doormat. Either he decides to go to a front office position (more likely), or quit altogether. If he stays on as head coach (barring any major changes), he really is a gutton for punishment.

[TheBadOne 0]

TheBadOne- thanks for the local run down. I lived in Phoenix up until 2004, so I've been a Coyotes fan as well as a Wings fan since they changed from the Jets.

I really hope they improve from the season they had last year, but I really wonder how that's possible. Maybe a healthy Jovo will help. But poor Doan, he really doesn't have much of a supporting cast.

I would be shocked if they were anything but at the bottom of the league again. Especially with Gretzky behind the bench. Of course he doesn't have much to work with.

Its funny, I never thought I'd follow another team aside from the Wings. Yet after seeing the Coyotes determination to better themselves in addition to how well they treat their fans, I have to say that I respect them enough now to root for them. If either the Wings or Coyotes play against any of the other 28 teams in the league, I'd pull for them. When they face each other, however, I just hope to see a hell of a hockey game. I'm always going to be a Wings fan, but the Coyotes have a lot of youth and like 4-5 guys on their roster who are capable of fighting!

The one thing that gets me is how they keep the prices for the Wings games higher than any of the other ticket prices, including tickets to see the Ducks. How the hell are you going to better yourself in the league when your front office concedes that there's a team that's better than you? I don't understand that logic, so I think I'll call their front office to complain (no s***, the team president here takes phone calls.)

As for them relocating, I don't see that happening and I hope it doesn't. Major league hockey hasn't been here for long (11 years), but man alive is the game starting to blossom out here. The area now has ice and roller rinks to play at, which the locals are starting to embrace, as well as an expanding growth in hockey programs and shops. Many liken the experience of a hockey game like going to a rock concert, so if the Yotes can put a playoff-contending team on ice, I think you'd see more fannies in the seats.

Edited October 2, 2007 by TheBadOne

[Heaton 1]

How could the 2nd toughest team in the league be the worst team? It's impossible!

[evilmrt 636]

First Line: York-Kapanen-Doan

Guy in press box waiting for a trade: Aebischer

Yeah, they're going to be bottom of the barrel again this year. Look at that first line! WTF KIND OF FIRST LINE IS THAT? Sad, sad sad.

On the bright side, more draft picks!

As far as Aebischer goes, someone remind me what hes even doing here.

Wake me up when the Wings come to town.

Edited October 2, 2007 by evilmrt

[MacK_Attack 108]

With that said: my personal prediction is a dead last finish for Phoenix. If not dead last, then at least 15th in the West, and somewhere like 28th or 29th overall.

There's nobody in the East as bad as the Coyotes. I predict the Islanders will be in last in the East and I think they're quite a bit better than the Coyotes.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Their blue line isn't half bad, although Jovo is a shell of his former self. But with maybe 5 or 6 legitimate NHLers up front that would play on most teams, and three backup goalies competing for the starting job, things look pretty bad in the desert this year.

They badly need to trade Doan for some prospects.

[SweWings 45]

Well...the sun never seems to shine on Phoenix...

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

Their blue line isn't half bad, although Jovo is a shell of his former self. But with maybe 5 or 6 legitimate NHLers up front that would play on most teams, and three backup goalies competing for the starting job, things look pretty bad in the desert this year.

They badly need to trade Doan for some prospects.

I feel bad for poor Doaner. For the most part, the only quality player on the team. And loyal too, just signed a contract extension. If they trade him away, me and a lot of fans would be fed up with the Coyotes. Although I think he'd absolutely flourish with the Wings.

[Viperar 16]

Its funny, I never thought I'd follow another team aside from the Wings. Yet after seeing the Coyotes determination to better themselves in addition to how well they treat their fans, I have to say that I respect them enough now to root for them. If either the Wings or Coyotes play against any of the other 28 teams in the league, I'd pull for them. When they face each other, however, I just hope to see a hell of a hockey game. I'm always going to be a Wings fan, but the Coyotes have a lot of youth and like 4-5 guys on their roster who are capable of fighting!

The one thing that gets me is how they keep the prices for the Wings games higher than any of the other ticket prices, including tickets to see the Ducks. How the hell are you going to better yourself in the league when your front office concedes that there's a team that's better than you? I don't understand that logic, so I think I'll call their front office to complain (no s***, the team president here takes phone calls.)

As for them relocating, I don't see that happening and I hope it doesn't. Major league hockey hasn't been here for long (11 years), but man alive is the game starting to blossom out here. The area now has ice and roller rinks to play at, which the locals are starting to embrace, as well as an expanding growth in hockey programs and shops. Many liken the experience of a hockey game like going to a rock concert, so if the Yotes can put a playoff-contending team on ice, I think you'd see more fannies in the seats.

its been the same way for me and the Capitals here. Luckily the caps have more promise so I respect your admiration for the Coyotes. Caps vs Red Wings, I will always be a red wings fan and root for them, but the caps are my team that I can actually see play live and they treat their fans great, and the games are a lot of fun

[Lou_Siffer 1]

How could the 2nd toughest team in the league be the worst team? It's impossible!

I'll have to look through some finalized rosters, but Phoenix definitely isnt 2nd toughest. If Philly keeps Boulerice in addition to Riley Cote, then Anaheim actually takes that honor! And in an amazing, stunning, out of this world coincidence, thats also my prediction for the Stanley Cup Finals

Expecting a massive bounce back year for the Flyers.

[norrisnick 1]

They'll be competing with the Oilers in the Steven Stamkos sweepstakes.

Or the John Tavares sweepstakes.

But I really like Hanzel and Mueller. The Coyotes have some bright spots. But it'll be a while before they're a good team. They could even be the Hamilton Coyotes by then.

Victor Hedman.

We need to figure out a way to draft this kid. 16yo defenseman, 6'6" 235lbs, great skater, physical, good offensive and defensive. He's playing for Modo in the SEL.

EDIT - Hedman is in the draft that Tavares is supposed to be in, not the attempt to get into the '08 draft. My bad on that. Still, I'd take Hedman over the other two if at all possible!

[TheBadOne 0]

If anyone cares, Phoenix did release their official opening night roster today:

Vrbata - Kapanen - Doan

Carcillo - Reinprect - York

Winnik - Hanzal - Weller

Tjarnqvist - Mueller - Zigomanis

Sjostrom will sit, Gratton is injured.

JovoCop - Michalek

Morris - Ballard

Boynton - Jones

Tellqvist

Auld

Aebischer will enjoy the game with some popcorn and soda while listening to Dave Strader (!!!!) call the game.

Personally, I don't like that they took Hanzal off the second unit and put Reinprecht there instead, but all and all, I'm glad they turned out the way they did. That's my perspective on it.

Edited October 3, 2007 by TheBadOne

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Victor Hedman.

We need to figure out a way to draft this kid. 16yo defenseman, 6'6" 235lbs, great skater, physical, good offensive and defensive. He's playing for Modo in the SEL.

EDIT - Hedman is in the draft that Tavares is supposed to be in, not the attempt to get into the '08 draft. My bad on that. Still, I'd take Hedman over the other two if at all possible!

The Wings would take him because he's swedish. But he's not the best defenceman in the draft. Alex Peterangelo will be a star in the NHL and will be a top 2 pick this year. I'd give up alot top get him, with Peterangelo, Quincey, Kindl and Ericcson as our future top 4, no one could touch us.

[norrisnick 1]

The Wings would take him because he's swedish. But he's not the best defenceman in the draft. Alex Peterangelo will be a star in the NHL and will be a top 2 pick this year. I'd give up alot top get him, with Peterangelo, Quincey, Kindl and Ericcson as our future top 4, no one could touch us.

Hedman is in the '09 draft. Got the years mixed up when Tavares was tossed into the mix. Many scouts believe he could be playing in the NHL now and he's still two years from draft age. He's bigger and a better skater than Pronger. And he's only 16. I'm not sure if there is anyone coming down the pipe in the next 2-3-4 years that'll be better than Victor. He's a massive, mobile franchise defenseman in the making.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Hedman is in the '09 draft. Got the years mixed up when Tavares was tossed into the mix. Many scouts believe he could be playing in the NHL now and he's still two years from draft age. He's bigger and a better skater than Pronger. And he's only 16. I'm not sure if there is anyone coming down the pipe in the next 2-3-4 years that'll be better than Victor. He's a massive, mobile franchise defenseman in the making.

I do like size that can play. But by the sounds of the scouts, he'll be a top round draft pick. And unfornately for the both of us, Hedman and Peterangelo probably wont be taken by the Wings .