Excellent Article on Nashville

[Hank 0]

http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/News...ing/index.shtml

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

http://www.nashvillescene.com/Stories/News...ing/index.shtml

Mostly stuff we all know but a good article, nice find Hank.

I'm sure Legion will be here eventually to debunkify the entire thing and explain how this article is the biggest pile of rubbish ever printed.

[auxlepli 17]

That's a good article. However in the Predators defense, hockey is the only thing that's ever drawn be to Nashville.

I found this article today that's relevant.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news/news.asp?idNews=25998

The facts, however, are simple – Nashville Predators owner Craig Leopold claims to have lost $27 million in two years of the "new NHL."

The prospective new local owners are seeking major concessions from the city or they're threatening to walk away from the deal. If the model were working as promised, the Predators would not be on life support in Nashville. End of story.

Thanks Bettman. I guess you were lying about how the new CBA would cure all the NHL woes.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Move that Goddamn waste of a team already. Preferrably to Vegas.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

That's a good article. However in the Predators defense, hockey is the only thing that's ever drawn be to Nashville.

I found this article today that's relevant.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/news/news.asp?idNews=25998

Thanks Bettman. I guess you were lying about how the new CBA would cure all the NHL woes.

Nashville also has the Titans, and with Vince Young QBing that team for the immediate future, they are going to be a good sell there. They also have an arena football team. So the Predators aren't the only ticket in town.

[Legionnaire11 0]

actually the Arena team just folded a couple of hours ago.

as for the article, I don't have to refute anything in it. This guy is the last one to join the party, he hasn't said anything new and has only rehashed all the same BS that has already been disproved.

I guess he missed all the news about a deal being done within the next week? You know, because the same government people that he was talking about... they actually want to get this deal done.

If you want to read the factual business of the preds and this sale. Check out Richard Lawson of the Nashville Post. It's the business paper in town. He's pretty much debunked all of the myths that the Tennessean has spread by just looking at the actual documents involved. Something the Tennessean has to this point, obviously failed to do. they never include references to the documents, The Post does. Pretty simple to see which source is more credible.

and with all the recent articles on attendance in detroit, you folks oughta know all about how everything in print is 100% factual right?

[TheCaptain19 49]

i say dont move or replace them at all. the last thing this league needs is another team. we need to GET RID of teams. the league is too watered down.

[Kp-Wings 3]

and with all the recent articles on attendance in detroit, you folks oughta know all about how everything in print is 100% factual right?

Touche.

It's a different situation though. The Predators actually have affordable tickets for the average middle-class family. Unlike the Wings, who force you to shell out a home loan just to bring your family to a hockey game and have a good time.

...and before you comment about the Wings supposed $9 tickets, those are nothing more than a myth. They are horribly obstructed seats, located in the far, far end corners of the arena. There are only about 200 or so of them also, which isn't very many in a sports arena with over 20,000 seats in it.

I won't deny the Wings attedance problems one bit, but you can't compare it to Nashville's. The Predators charge decent prices for tickets, and have a fan friendly organization that markets and shares it's players with the fans, not hide them in caves like the Wings do. It's ridiculous how out of touch the Wings organization is with the fans. It's saddening in a way.

Plus, Nashville's economy isn't nearly as bad as Detroit's or Michigan's in general. Michigan is dead last in jobs, and is 1st in home foreclosures. That's a pretty dubious ranking to be in.

But, it's a variety of factors that lead to the Wings not selling out games. Just as it is for the Predators, so it's similar in some cases.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[auxlepli 17]

Nashville also has the Titans, and with Vince Young QBing that team for the immediate future, they are going to be a good sell there. They also have an arena football team. So the Predators aren't the only ticket in town.

Yep, they got all that, Opryland, capitol, Grand Old Opry, Music Row, etc., YET the only thing that's drawn me there has been NHL hockey games.

[Jwo 7]

Touche.

It's a different situation though. The Predators actually have affordable tickets for the average middle-class family. Unlike the Wings, who force you to shell out a home loan just to bring your family to a hockey game and have a good time.

...and before you comment about the Wings supposed $9 tickets, those are nothing more than a myth. They are horribly obstructed seats, located in the far, far end corners of the arena. There are only about 200 or so of them also, which isn't very many in a sports arena with over 20,000 seats in it.

I won't deny the Wings attedance problems one bit, but you can't compare it to Nashville's. The Predators charge decent prices for tickets, and have a fan friendly organization that markets and shares it's players with the fans, not hide them in caves like the Wings do. It's ridiculous how out of touch the Wings organization is with the fans. It's saddening in a way.

Plus, Nashville's economy isn't nearly as bad as Detroit's or Michigan's in general. Michigan is dead last in jobs, and is 1st in home foreclosures. That's a pretty dubious ranking to be in.

But, it's a variety of factors that lead to the Wings not selling out games. Just as it is for the Predators, so it's similar in some cases.

Speaking about the Middle Class. It is slowy being shrunk here in Michigan. Not sure if the same thing is happening around the country. It scares me when they talk about their will be no more Middle Class.

[2probert4 8]

actually the Arena team just folded a couple of hours ago.

as for the article, I don't have to refute anything in it. This guy is the last one to join the party, he hasn't said anything new and has only rehashed all the same BS that has already been disproved.

I guess he missed all the news about a deal being done within the next week? You know, because the same government people that he was talking about... they actually want to get this deal done.

If you want to read the factual business of the preds and this sale. Check out Richard Lawson of the Nashville Post. It's the business paper in town. He's pretty much debunked all of the myths that the Tennessean has spread by just looking at the actual documents involved. Something the Tennessean has to this point, obviously failed to do. they never include references to the documents, The Post does. Pretty simple to see which source is more credible.

and with all the recent articles on attendance in detroit, you folks oughta know all about how everything in print is 100% factual right?

John Glennon, like the guys on 104.5, are puppets of the Predators .....Willie Dunnic especially.. Guy tried arguing with me during the teams first season that Yzerman was signed as a free agent, that he played for the Nucks prior to being a Wing...haha The Titans hold the city hostage on money more than the Predators ever have, but the NFL rules in that town.

Yep, they got all that, Opryland, capitol, Grand Old Opry, Music Row, etc., YET the only thing that's drawn me there has been NHL hockey games.

Ive lived there for a few years, its a nice city. Cost of living is reasonable, lots to do around the town, lots of places to eat, and lots of music types to choose from, not just a country music city. Night life is good, and you can walk around the downtown area and feel safe, so its not all bad.

[lfd250 1]

The fact that this just keeps going cracks me up. I was a big supporter of keeping nashville, but now not so much. You can only beat a dead horse so much until it throws you off. It hasn't worked in 9 years, it isn't going to work. The few people that love the team and support it are the ones that I feel sorry for. You were promised a team, fell in love with it, and now love it so much you can't pull the plug on it. Basically your team is like a company that loses money and instead of folding and getting what you can for it, you change the name (owners) and keep trying, and when it doesn't work, because face it, it isn't going to. You'll try and change the name (owners) again. I hope there's an out for the new owners because there was a lot of hype this year, and I doubt it will be there next year. Try re-nameing the team after something that isn't extinct.

[2probert4 8]

The fact that this just keeps going cracks me up. I was a big supporter of keeping nashville, but now not so much. You can only beat a dead horse so much until it throws you off. It hasn't worked in 9 years, it isn't going to work. The few people that love the team and support it are the ones that I feel sorry for. You were promised a team, fell in love with it, and now love it so much you can't pull the plug on it. Basically your team is like a company that loses money and instead of folding and getting what you can for it, you change the name (owners) and keep trying, and when it doesn't work, because face it, it isn't going to. You'll try and change the name (owners) again. I hope there's an out for the new owners because there was a lot of hype this year, and I doubt it will be there next year. Try re-nameing the team after something that isn't extinct.

Theres about 15000 in that area that actually care about the Predators, most people would have preferred the NBA or MLB over hockey to be honest. Im sure Legionairre will dispute this, but that city for the most part could care less. The upper level ticket prices in Nashville are what separates them from other teams, Im not sure what they raised the lower levels to, I know that you could get a glass seat for around 90 - 100 USD when I was there. Only reason there is a fight for them to stay has nothing to do with the love of hockey, but the economic impact losing those game night dollars spent on meals, parking, etc etc.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Touche.

It's a different situation though. The Predators actually have affordable tickets for the average middle-class family. Unlike the Wings, who force you to shell out a home loan just to bring your family to a hockey game and have a good time.

...and before you comment about the Wings supposed $9 tickets, those are nothing more than a myth. They are horribly obstructed seats, located in the far, far end corners of the arena. There are only about 200 or so of them also, which isn't very many in a sports arena with over 20,000 seats in it.

I won't deny the Wings attedance problems one bit, but you can't compare it to Nashville's. The Predators charge decent prices for tickets, and have a fan friendly organization that markets and shares it's players with the fans, not hide them in caves like the Wings do. It's ridiculous how out of touch the Wings organization is with the fans. It's saddening in a way.

Plus, Nashville's economy isn't nearly as bad as Detroit's or Michigan's in general. Michigan is dead last in jobs, and is 1st in home foreclosures. That's a pretty dubious ranking to be in.

But, it's a variety of factors that lead to the Wings not selling out games. Just as it is for the Predators, so it's similar in some cases.

Oh, I wasn't comparing the situations. I was just comparing the media coverage. Everyone knows the reasons for not selling out in Detroit, but you're getting articles there talking about fan interest and other BS stuff. I was just pointing out that the media doesn't always portray a situation accurately, but they will always write a story that creates controversy and gets people reading.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Theres about 15000 in that area that actually care about the Predators, most people would have preferred the NBA or MLB over hockey to be honest. Im sure Legionairre will dispute this, but that city for the most part could care less. The upper level ticket prices in Nashville are what separates them from other teams, Im not sure what they raised the lower levels to, I know that you could get a glass seat for around 90 - 100 USD when I was there. Only reason there is a fight for them to stay has nothing to do with the love of hockey, but the economic impact losing those game night dollars spent on meals, parking, etc etc.

there are a lot more than 15,000 who care about hockey here. But there are probably only 15,000 who care enough to buy a ticket package.

Season before the lockout (first playoff season) the prices were incredibly affordable. But they've shot way up since then.

03-04 ......... 07-08

$95 ............. $150

$85 ............. $115

N/A ............. $110

N/A ............. $81

$60 ............. $75

$50 ............. $49-69

$26 ............. $34-40

$19 ............. $26-29

$12 ............. $17-19

I think it's crazy. The object should have been to get people in the doors first and get them hooked on hockey. And then when you have consistent good crowds that need their hockey fix, then you raise prices. But just look at those seats on the glass, they've gone up about $18 each year.

Well here... just take a look at the league averages...

03-04 Season

05-06 Season

06-07 Season

-------------------------------------------------

Now tell me how it makes sense for Nashville to be only $3 behind Detroit in average ticket price? Leipold can cry about losing money and poor attendance, but it's pretty obvious that he's not the greatest businessman in the world. He has ruined several companies in the past and now ruined the Predators. Hopefully the new local owners will be able to pull this thing together and get this whole mess under control. It can work here, but they have to be smart about it.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Now tell me how it makes sense for Nashville to be only $3 behind Detroit in average ticket price? Leipold can cry about losing money and poor attendance, but it's pretty obvious that he's not the greatest businessman in the world. He has ruined several companies in the past and now ruined the Predators. Hopefully the new local owners will be able to pull this thing together and get this whole mess under control. It can work here, but they have to be smart about it.

Legion, i'm a little hazy on some of the facts, maybe you can clarify

1. Is anyone refuting Liepold's claims that he lost 27mil over 2 years

2. Do the Predators get more revenue sharing than any other team in the league?

3. The new owners, are they asking for any concessions from the taxpayers? If so, what are they? I thought I read they wanted more cash for upgrades to the facility, something to do with keeping all the parking receipts, etc.....

Is any of this stuff Tennessean lies?

[Legionnaire11 0]

Legion, i'm a little hazy on some of the facts, maybe you can clarify

1. Is anyone refuting Liepold's claims that he lost 27mil over 2 years

2. Do the Predators get more revenue sharing than any other team in the league?

3. The new owners, are they asking for any concessions from the taxpayers? If so, what are they? I thought I read they wanted more cash for upgrades to the facility, something to do with keeping all the parking receipts, etc.....

Is any of this stuff Tennessean lies?

absolutely.

First, they haven't asked for any more money from tax payers. They've simply asked that they be able to keep more of the tax money that they generate, which wouldn't be there anyway if the team left. Right now I believe the team pays the city something like 10% of every ticket sold. Whereas concerts at Sommet only pay the city 3%.

Parking is not part of this. Parking in Nashville is not part of the city, and the only parking area that the Predators own is the garage that is built into Sommet. Central Parking Systems is an independant parking management company that runs all of the downtown lots. They set the prices and get the money. Not the preds, not metro government. Central Parking is one of the biggest complaints people have here in Nashville. Not just preds fans, but anyone who comes here. Hopefully nashville can get out of that deal down the road and get something more favorable to the citizens.

No one disputes that Leipold lost all that money. But the thing is, no one is feeling sorry for him for spending so unwisely. The Predators reportedly have spent more money on marketing and advertising than any team in the league since the franchise was born... you'd never believe that if you lived here. Advertising has been sparse at best. And now that Leipold is just playing the waiting game to get out of town there is NO advertising at all. He lost a lot of money, but it's his fault. Attendance wasn't great before the team got good, but he went out and increased the payroll anyway, that was his choice that he can't blame on anyone else. We went from a $23M payroll and 12-13k attendance and we lost money then... so how is it logical for him to increase the payroll to $39M when we still had 13k attendance? there's $16M in losses right off the top. He was concerned with winning a cup, when he should have been focused on building the fan base with better ticket prices and better marketing. Where he spent the $50M in marketing, we'll never know, but it was obviously money that was not well spent.

The Predators did recieve the most revenue sharing money last season. So what? that's the rules that every team in the league agreed on. The Preds met every criteria to receive the money, so they got it. Part of revenue sharing requirements is that teams meet a certain attendance mark. It was something like 13k last season. If they were absolutely pitiful and only drew 10k, they wouldn't have gotten the money. So yes, the teams at the bottom are getting free money, but they aren't total charity cases, they still have to meet certain goals to recieve the money. This season the mark is up to like 13.5k and next season it will be 14k. That's the 14k that everyone is tossing around. It's the same number for the out clause in the lease, which is what all of the media has been talking about. But truthfully the local group has no plans on breaking the lease, otherwise they wouldn't be putting their necks out there to save the team. They're working on a new lease agreement in fact. The reason 14k is still out there is simply to qualify for full revenue sharing.

oh yeah, and the money for upgrades is already budgeted for several years in advance. they want a little bit more, but not much more than is already on the books.

The titans get a lot more money from the city, but no one questions that.

[2probert4 8]

there are a lot more than 15,000 who care about hockey here. But there are probably only 15,000 who care enough to buy a ticket package.

Season before the lockout (first playoff season) the prices were incredibly affordable. But they've shot way up since then.

03-04 ......... 07-08

$95 ............. $150

$85 ............. $115

N/A ............. $110

N/A ............. $81

$60 ............. $75

$50 ............. $49-69

$26 ............. $34-40

$19 ............. $26-29

$12 ............. $17-19

I think it's crazy. The object should have been to get people in the doors first and get them hooked on hockey. And then when you have consistent good crowds that need their hockey fix, then you raise prices. But just look at those seats on the glass, they've gone up about $18 each year.

Well here... just take a look at the league averages...

03-04 Season

05-06 Season

06-07 Season

-------------------------------------------------

Now tell me how it makes sense for Nashville to be only $3 behind Detroit in average ticket price? Leipold can cry about losing money and poor attendance, but it's pretty obvious that he's not the greatest businessman in the world. He has ruined several companies in the past and now ruined the Predators. Hopefully the new local owners will be able to pull this thing together and get this whole mess under control. It can work here, but they have to be smart about it.

My number came from an estimate from your Nashville Sports Authority group. Maybe your circle loves the sport, but not many more than that care about an NHL team, especially now that they are threatening to move unless the city coughs up more money, and they gutted the roster somewhat, and they have some impact players that will deserve a substantial raise on the FA horizon. If they dont try to keep some of those guys, people will get ticked and say forget it. Boots will end up being the primary owner down the line, dont kid yourself. Those other guys in that group will jump ship eventually , some of that group have acknowledged that it's not the best hope to make any money, which was what Leopold was in this to do, make money. The local banks agreed also, that was why there were so many owners involved, they had difficulty getting the money to pay Leopold. Also remember this....Detroit 17K and change sells out many arenas around the league, but Illitch will have to address ticket prices, with the economy being down , and with the other local teams in Detroit doing well (Tigers and Pistons) Lions sell out regardless of their play. Titans suck up more money in Nashville than you think, keep that in mind .....

[Legionnaire11 0]

My number came from an estimate from your Nashville Sports Authority group. Maybe your circle loves the sport, but not many more than that care about an NHL team, especially now that they are threatening to move unless the city coughs up more money, and they gutted the roster somewhat, and they have some impact players that will deserve a substantial raise on the FA horizon. If they dont try to keep some of those guys, people will get ticked and say forget it. Boots will end up being the primary owner down the line, dont kid yourself. Those other guys in that group will jump ship eventually , some of that group have acknowledged that it's not the best hope to make any money, which was what Leopold was in this to do, make money. The local banks agreed also, that was why there were so many owners involved, they had difficulty getting the money to pay Leopold. Also remember this....Detroit 17K and change sells out many arenas around the league, but Illitch will have to address ticket prices, with the economy being down , and with the other local teams in Detroit doing well (Tigers and Pistons) Lions sell out regardless of their play. Titans suck up more money in Nashville than you think, keep that in mind .....

15k package holders goes something like this...

We have almost 10k full season ticket equivilents. 6k full season tickets.

So that leaves the other 4k to be divided up by 21 game packs and 13 game packs. Mostly 13 games.

roughly 3k half season (21) packages, plus the 6k full season makes 9k people and 7.5k full seasons.

and then we're left with 2.5k to be made up of 1/4 season (13) packages. which would actually add another 10k people with some kind of ticket package. Total of 19k people holding 10k full season ticket equivilents.

19k ticket holders. give them more time to get into the game more, and build their desire for hockey more. they'll buy more games, bigger packages. and then there is no problem.

------------------------------------------------------------

as for the new owners making money here. They have said already that they will make no money from the team. if and when they ever make a profit, it will go right back into the team. they are prepared to lose money, but they are also prepared to sell to boots down the road (probably farther than most people outside of nashville think) if the situation becomes unworkable.

I'd say they'll give it another 6-8 years to try and get the paid attendance up to 16k per game ever night. At that point they'd be making good money and icing a higher payroll.

They will do a better job of selling the team and sport to this city. They will do a better job of managing the arena and booking other events there. In fact, the major portion of the renovation money they're asking for right now is to turn an unused rehearsal hall on the back of the building into a smaller (2-3k seat) concert venue so they can book more acts there that wouldn't otherwise be able to play a 10k seat arena setup.

Will it all work? who knows, i'd like to say it will, given time. More and more kids growing up and being able to afford tickets. That's the biggest area of the fan base right now are the kids. There are too many older folks around town who will just never get into hockey because they were never exposed to it. But the generation growing up with it now, they need more time before they can become the ticket holding core.

Which really kills me when you hear people in places like Detroit saying that hockey will never work in Nashville. They're basing it on 9 years of existence and comparing to places where, not only have they had enough time for a generation to grow up with the team and become ticket buyers, they've had entire generations born, live a full life and die all while the team has been in town. If we're supposed to be held to the same standard as those markets, then you'd have to say that we haven't done too bad really.

Edited October 11, 2007 by Legionnaire11

[betterREDthandead 58]

Which really kills me when you hear people in places like Detroit saying that hockey will never work in Nashville. They're basing it on 9 years of existence and comparing to places where, not only have they had enough time for a generation to grow up with the team and become ticket buyers, they've had entire generations born, live a full life and die all while the team has been in town. If we're supposed to be held to the same standard as those markets, then you'd have to say that we haven't done too bad really.

I agree with this 100%. The biggest reason hockey is behind the other sports is because the NHL had six teams when the others were carrying around 16. The NHL had 12 teams when the other leagues had 24. The NHL had 21 teams when the other leagues had 28. The NHL had 26 teams when the other leagues had 30. It took until 2000 for the NHL to finally catch up to everyone else.

And not only that, but the NHL never had a presence in the same places the other leagues have had. Everywhere there's a hockey team, save those places that have nothing but a hockey team, there's been another team entrenched in place for at least a full generation prior. Philadelphia had the Phillies for over 80 years before the Flyers showed up and the Eagles for over thirty years, and we think of the Flyers as a very old team rich in tradition. While the NHL was dicking around and screwing up the management of the Seals, the San Francisco Giants and Oakland A's were winning the hearts of Bay Area fans. While the Raiders and Niners were dominating the NFL, the closest hockey team was the Kings in LA. When the Capitals arrived on the scene, the Senators and Redskins had been around for two generations. By the time the Stars moved to Dallas, the Cowboys and Rangers were already well in place. See where I'm going? The NHL needs to be in a place for a good 20 years. Long enough for kids to grow up with the team. The NHL didn't get on the expansion train until almost the 1970's, and has been catching up ever since. This crap about getting rid of teams because the league is too "watered down".....boo-hoo. It's a joke and it's dead wrong. People in Nashville aren't saying, "oh, the quality of play just isn't what it was in the 80's, I'm not going any more."

[vladdy16 2,154]

The NHL needs to be in a place for a good 20 years. Long enough for kids to grow up with the team. The NHL didn't get on the expansion train until almost the 1970's, and has been catching up ever since. This crap about getting rid of teams because the league is too "watered down".....boo-hoo. It's a joke and it's dead wrong. People in Nashville aren't saying, "oh, the quality of play just isn't what it was in the 80's, I'm not going any more."

Fine. Give them another 40 years to grab a fan base - just quit making me pay for it. You want the team, you support it. Or sell it to someone who has the pockets and the inclination to support it and grow it until such a time the team generates fans to help financially. I'm tired of the whining of "We can't compete. We don't have the money." If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Fine. Give them another 40 years to grab a fan base - just quit making me pay for it. You want the team, you support it. Or sell it to someone who has the pockets and the inclination to support it and grow it until such a time the team generates fans to help financially. I'm tired of the whining of "We can't compete. We don't have the money." If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

there has to be a better financial structure in place for that. Or you have to cut 1/3 of the league, of course, when you do that then the media brings a s*** storm on the league even bigger than what they pulled out on the XFL.

The salary cap is great, but it is majorly flawed. The PA is really to blame for this. Their only interest is in growing their bank accounts as fast as they can right now. If you took the PA out of the equation, and then realistically looked at the NHL's finances and standing in the sports world, you would probably come up with a hard cap of about $19M and an individual player cap at about $2M. And it would have strict limits on when it can raise and by how much it can raise.

Instead, to get the PA to agree with it (and yes, it's a good first step), we had to take this floating cap/floor deal that has already priced the bottom 1/3 of the league out of competition again. How many teams were able to spend $35-40M under the uncapped system? now they're being forced to spend it because of the floor. Not only that, but the wealthy teams are able to spend up to the cap and still make a boat load of profit.

which is another thing, all the complaining about paying into revenue sharing. Look at New York, Toronto and Detroit. Teams that were spend in the past at least $20M over the current cap and still making profits back then. These guys are making a lot of money now with the cap in place and are still able to spend above and beyond the bottom rung teams. Given the choice, all of these owners would take the current system and pay a little into revenue sharing.

----------------------------------------------------

as for what BRTD said about the league killing itself by not expanding sooner and reaching more areas sooner. That is a dead on analysis. As much as the original 6 is talked up around the league for their history, that group did more harm to the league than anyone is willing to admit. I think at one time 4 of the 6 teams (including the Red Wings) were all under the same ownership family. And when expansion was brought up, they quickly nixed the ideas or made their demands impossible to meet. They concealed hockey in the northeast until the late 60's and farted away precious years of expansion and visibility that the other leagues were building up.

[vangvace 12]

The salary cap is great, but it is majorly flawed. The PA is really to blame for this. Their only interest is in growing their bank accounts as fast as they can right now. If you took the PA out of the equation, and then realistically looked at the NHL's finances and standing in the sports world, you would probably come up with a hard cap of about $19M and an individual player cap at about $2M. And it would have strict limits on when it can raise and by how much it can raise.

Instead, to get the PA to agree with it (and yes, it's a good first step), we had to take this floating cap/floor deal that has already priced the bottom 1/3 of the league out of competition again. How many teams were able to spend $35-40M under the uncapped system? now they're being forced to spend it because of the floor. Not only that, but the wealthy teams are able to spend up to the cap and still make a boat load of profit.

Yes, but the one of the main reasons that the cap has risen that dramatically is because of the downturn of the US dollar, esp. compaired to the Loonie. When (if?) the US dollar recovers the salary cap will start to shrink again if my understanding of the CBA is sound. Downside is that I don't see it happening until after the current CBA is set to expire.

It's also why teams like Edm. aren't whining anymore that they don't have the money to compete. Instead they are putting money into revenue sharing.

Side note - TB deal is getting shaky too, but it's less drama than Nashville so far. Which reminds me... I think I'm going to start making popcorn to eat before reading Nashville threads from now on.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

absolutely.

First, they haven't asked for any more money from tax payers. They've simply asked that they be able to keep more of the tax money that they generate, which wouldn't be there anyway if the team left. Right now I believe the team pays the city something like 10% of every ticket sold. Whereas concerts at Sommet only pay the city 3%.

Parking is not part of this. Parking in Nashville is not part of the city, and the only parking area that the Predators own is the garage that is built into Sommet. Central Parking Systems is an independant parking management company that runs all of the downtown lots. They set the prices and get the money. Not the preds, not metro government. Central Parking is one of the biggest complaints people have here in Nashville. Not just preds fans, but anyone who comes here. Hopefully nashville can get out of that deal down the road and get something more favorable to the citizens.

No one disputes that Leipold lost all that money. But the thing is, no one is feeling sorry for him for spending so unwisely. The Predators reportedly have spent more money on marketing and advertising than any team in the league since the franchise was born... you'd never believe that if you lived here. Advertising has been sparse at best. And now that Leipold is just playing the waiting game to get out of town there is NO advertising at all. He lost a lot of money, but it's his fault. Attendance wasn't great before the team got good, but he went out and increased the payroll anyway, that was his choice that he can't blame on anyone else. We went from a $23M payroll and 12-13k attendance and we lost money then... so how is it logical for him to increase the payroll to $39M when we still had 13k attendance? there's $16M in losses right off the top. He was concerned with winning a cup, when he should have been focused on building the fan base with better ticket prices and better marketing. Where he spent the $50M in marketing, we'll never know, but it was obviously money that was not well spent.

The Predators did recieve the most revenue sharing money last season. So what? that's the rules that every team in the league agreed on. The Preds met every criteria to receive the money, so they got it. Part of revenue sharing requirements is that teams meet a certain attendance mark. It was something like 13k last season. If they were absolutely pitiful and only drew 10k, they wouldn't have gotten the money. So yes, the teams at the bottom are getting free money, but they aren't total charity cases, they still have to meet certain goals to recieve the money. This season the mark is up to like 13.5k and next season it will be 14k. That's the 14k that everyone is tossing around. It's the same number for the out clause in the lease, which is what all of the media has been talking about. But truthfully the local group has no plans on breaking the lease, otherwise they wouldn't be putting their necks out there to save the team. They're working on a new lease agreement in fact. The reason 14k is still out there is simply to qualify for full revenue sharing.

oh yeah, and the money for upgrades is already budgeted for several years in advance. they want a little bit more, but not much more than is already on the books.

The titans get a lot more money from the city, but no one questions that.

Thanks for that.

I guess my only comments to this would be that I think sloughing off the fact that they got the most money from the NHL welfare system, yet that didn't even make a dent towards profitability when you had a great on-ice product is something you can't just say "so what" to.

"they want a little bit more but not much more", again, I think you trivialize alot fo the criticisms. You know more about it than me but I tend to think the truth lies somewhere in the middle between what you tell us is so blatantly false and what most of the press keeps spouting off. Just my 2 cents.

[2probert4 8]

15k package holders goes something like this...

We have almost 10k full season ticket equivilents. 6k full season tickets.

So that leaves the other 4k to be divided up by 21 game packs and 13 game packs. Mostly 13 games.

roughly 3k half season (21) packages, plus the 6k full season makes 9k people and 7.5k full seasons.

and then we're left with 2.5k to be made up of 1/4 season (13) packages. which would actually add another 10k people with some kind of ticket package. Total of 19k people holding 10k full season ticket equivilents.

19k ticket holders. give them more time to get into the game more, and build their desire for hockey more. they'll buy more games, bigger packages. and then there is no problem.

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as for the new owners making money here. They have said already that they will make no money from the team. if and when they ever make a profit, it will go right back into the team. they are prepared to lose money, but they are also prepared to sell to boots down the road (probably farther than most people outside of nashville think) if the situation becomes unworkable.

I'd say they'll give it another 6-8 years to try and get the paid attendance up to 16k per game ever night. At that point they'd be making good money and icing a higher payroll.

They will do a better job of selling the team and sport to this city. They will do a better job of managing the arena and booking other events there. In fact, the major portion of the renovation money they're asking for right now is to turn an unused rehearsal hall on the back of the building into a smaller (2-3k seat) concert venue so they can book more acts there that wouldn't otherwise be able to play a 10k seat arena setup.

Will it all work? who knows, i'd like to say it will, given time. More and more kids growing up and being able to afford tickets. That's the biggest area of the fan base right now are the kids. There are too many older folks around town who will just never get into hockey because they were never exposed to it. But the generation growing up with it now, they need more time before they can become the ticket holding core.

Which really kills me when you hear people in places like Detroit saying that hockey will never work in Nashville. They're basing it on 9 years of existence and comparing to places where, not only have they had enough time for a generation to grow up with the team and become ticket buyers, they've had entire generations born, live a full life and die all while the team has been in town. If we're supposed to be held to the same standard as those markets, then you'd have to say that we haven't done too bad really.

....People in Detroit arent the only ones saying hockey wont work in Nashville, its the entire NHL, and the majority (99.9%)of the media people around the league that cover this sport, please dont make this into a Detroit hates Nashville thing again, face it, youre not above water yet. The figures that you just posted don't match what I was told earlier. As for not asking for tax money, why did they ask the city for 4 million more dollars, which one way or another would involve taxes ? What the Predators front office is saying and what's really been sold are different, and its not like the Preds office hasnt lied before about numbers, just to get more of that revenue sharing money. Its not a rip on you, but even youve said you cant believe whats in the press.... 19K ticket holders, thats a laugh. But im assuming you read that in a press release eh ? But as you say, can't believe everything you read in the press.

I agree with this 100%. The biggest reason hockey is behind the other sports is because the NHL had six teams when the others were carrying around 16. The NHL had 12 teams when the other leagues had 24. The NHL had 21 teams when the other leagues had 28. The NHL had 26 teams when the other leagues had 30. It took until 2000 for the NHL to finally catch up to everyone else.

And not only that, but the NHL never had a presence in the same places the other leagues have had. Everywhere there's a hockey team, save those places that have nothing but a hockey team, there's been another team entrenched in place for at least a full generation prior. Philadelphia had the Phillies for over 80 years before the Flyers showed up and the Eagles for over thirty years, and we think of the Flyers as a very old team rich in tradition. While the NHL was dicking around and screwing up the management of the Seals, the San Francisco Giants and Oakland A's were winning the hearts of Bay Area fans. While the Raiders and Niners were dominating the NFL, the closest hockey team was the Kings in LA. When the Capitals arrived on the scene, the Senators and Redskins had been around for two generations. By the time the Stars moved to Dallas, the Cowboys and Rangers were already well in place. See where I'm going? The NHL needs to be in a place for a good 20 years. Long enough for kids to grow up with the team. The NHL didn't get on the expansion train until almost the 1970's, and has been catching up ever since. This crap about getting rid of teams because the league is too "watered down".....boo-hoo. It's a joke and it's dead wrong. People in Nashville aren't saying, "oh, the quality of play just isn't what it was in the 80's, I'm not going any more."

Most of the people in Nashville in the 80's had never seen a hockey game.... Unless you want to count that ECHL team they used to carry, the South Stars , Knights and whatever else they were called.

Edited October 11, 2007 by 2probert4