Kronwall At It Again

[betterREDthandead 58]

Somebody said that Lebda is outplaying him, but I don't see how that's the case offensively or defensively. Just look at that goal the other night. Yes, you're supposed to take away the pass alternatives on two-on-ones, but good defensemen cancel out both the pass and the shot. Lebda just backed off.

I really don't think you can expect the defenseman to cancel both the pass and the shot. Lebda did his job there. Ozzie needed to trust Lebda to stop the pass - he didn't, he was cheating over to the wrong side and wasn't in position to react to the deke.

I don't think Lebda's exactly outplaying Kronwall, but Lebda hasn't had a high-profile mistake that led to a goal like Kronwall did. Unfortunately, Kronwall is prone to those and he needs to fix them.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I cannot beleive what Im seeing, people actually raggin on Kronwall, it took longer then I thought.

Surprisingly, I wont. I've loved the way he has played the first three games, I said before the season Lilja's play will hurt Kronwall because of his love to hit, Lilja cannot handle 2 on 1's, or help out when those turnover's happen.

Kronwall needs to smarten up a bit, but with time he'll get better. He needs a better partner, until then, everyone will rag on him for everything, and they'll also rag on Lilja.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Kronwall needs to smarten up a bit, but with time he'll get better. He needs a better partner, until then, everyone will rag on him for everything, and they'll also rag on Lilja.

Like I said before: Kronwall should be at the point now where he is expected to bring his partner up to a higher level of play, not be needing a better partner to raise his own play.

[adamic 0]

Kronwall would have saved the goal Lebda let in the other night. He had all the time in the world to at least let Ozzie have a chance. All he had to do was fall down and Osgood would have covered for the rest. I like Lebda too but Kromwall can improve and will. Bowman, the coaching staff, and Lindstrom really like him and I would say they know better than any of us. I think the team looks really good, so far. Give the kid a break, he's been injured most of his NHL career. Also, putting him with Lindstrom would mean we got Rafalski for nothing. IMHO

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Like I said before: Kronwall should be at the point now where he is expected to bring his partner up to a higher level of play, not be needing a better partner to raise his own play.

He should be, but he isnt. I really dont think he has the potential to make his partners better anymore, too many injuries early on in his career. He'll be a fine 3rd defenceman, as long as his partners are at least as good as he is. I think you were the one that said, Lebda should be playing with Kronwall, and I agree with that, IMO Lebda>Lilja, and Lebda's speed and ice sense can help out Kronwall when he goes for big hits/gets out of position.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Kronwall has played 119 NHL games and Id venture a guess that a good 1/3 of those games were wasted by getting back up to game speed post-injury. Thats the equivalent to a Dman in the middle of his sophomore year.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

if kronwall was on another team he would be on the top pair IMO because he is a good defenseman and he just hasnt been able to showcase it when he is uncomfortable out there

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Man I really do not like this kid especially after we paid him so much for his potential!

He really is not good and has been a professional too long to make plays like that.

We should trade him and move on to some new talent. Lebda is a much better defenseman that Kronwall!

Okay, trade him FOR WHO?!?!?!?

While I don't feel the same way you do about Kronwall, my beef isn't with that as he does commit brainfart turnovers every now and then.

Anybody can through a 1-line rant about how we need to trade this player or that player sucks. Anybody can do that. What is irritating as hell is just ranting and not providing solutions. Give us substance or examples.

WHO SHOULD WE GET, OR WHO/WHAT DO YOU WANT TO GET, IN RETURN FOR KRONWALL?

Edited October 13, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Man I really do not like this kid especially after we paid him so much for his potential!

He really is not good and has been a professional too long to make plays like that.

We should trade him and move on to some new talent. Lebda is a much better defenseman that Kronwall!

Huh? We're not going to get a defenseman of Kronvall's potential for quite a few years. He's still oozing with potential even after 3 seasons of consecutive disruptive injuries. That sets back any player. Just look at the talent in Chicago. Havlat should be 4xbetter out there but he's been injury prone and that's set his career back- no argument there.

Sorry dude, but Lebda's NOT a much better defenseman. You're nuts if you think Lebda would get the Wings a better return on the trade block then Kronvall would.

And what the f***? Have you been watching this preseason and season so far? Kronvall's been fantastic. Every defenseman makes mistakes- just like every forward does. Just because Lidstrom makes the right move 99.9999999% of the time doesn't mean you can ask that of any other defenseman in the league.

Zetterberg's missed an open net more times then I can count. Same goes for Pavel. s***- Wayne Gretzky scored on his own damn net back when he played in L.A.

If you scream for a player's head every time he screws up you're bound do be disappointed in every team in the league. The fact is that no one on this team other than Lidstrom is superman.

Okay, trade him FOR WHO?!?!?!?

While I don't feel the same way you do about Kronwall, my beef isn't with that as he does commit brainfart turnovers every now and then.

Anybody can through a 1-line rant about how we need to trade this player or that player sucks. Anybody can do that. What is irritating as hell is just ranting and not providing solutions. Give us substance or examples.

WHO SHOULD WE GET, OR WHO/WHAT DO YOU WANT TO GET, IN RETURN FOR KRONWALL?

I definitely don't advocate trading Kronvall in any situation other than a "home run" trade. But I'm still kinda chapped in the ass that the Wings didn't get Pitkinen from Philly this summer given how cheaply they gave him away to Edmonton.

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

Kronwall would have saved the goal Lebda let in the other night. He had all the time in the world to at least let Ozzie have a chance. All he had to do was fall down and Osgood would have covered for the rest.

that goal was ozzy's fault. oz should have been hugging the post. anytime somebody scores a goal from behind the red line it's the goaltender's fault. lebda was there to take away the pass, play the middle, which is exactly what he did. osgood, no matter what, has to play the shooter and absolutely needs to be hugging the post in that situation.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I definitely don't advocate trading Kronvall in any situation other than a "home run" trade. But I'm still kinda chapped in the ass that the Wings didn't get Pitkinen from Philly this summer given how cheaply they gave him away to Edmonton.

I wouldnt say cheaply..not by a long shot! I think Philly won that trade actually. Jason Smith is damn good, and brings them the leadership they really need. Which explains why he was made captain! Lupul was good in Anaheim and has potential, he didnt work in Edmonton for whatever reason but he's a really good gamble to take on.

In terms of trade return....Smith/Lupul >>>> Kronwall. It would obviously have to be something pretty good in addition to Kronwall (not just a draft pick)

Edited October 13, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I wouldnt say cheaply..not by a long shot! I think Philly won that trade actually. Jason Smith is damn good, and brings them the leadership they really need. Which explains why he was made captain! Lupul was good in Anaheim and has potential, he didnt work in Edmonton for whatever reason but he's a really good gamble to take on.

Add in that Sanderson was scratched quite a bit last season and Pitkanen played like s*** for them last year, I really like Phillys deal, because Smith with Timonen will be good, and Lupul with Richards and Carter will be a pretty good line.

[Mors 201]

I'm usually on the Kronwall hater train with the likes of em, but I actually don't think he's been that bad so far in the first 5 games, and certainly not our worst defensemen (:cough: LILJA :cough:)

Rafalski has looked good offensively, but I'm not impressed by his defensive play at all...either he's not fully adjusted yet, or all the people who were hating on Schneider talking about how Rafalski is better in every respect need to reassess the situation more honestly. At least when Schneider was pissed he could lay someout out...Rafalski has gotten punked several times in the first 5 games.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Add in that Sanderson was scratched quite a bit last season and Pitkanen played like s*** for them last year, I really like Phillys deal, because Smith with Timonen will be good, and Lupul with Richards and Carter will be a pretty good line.

Good point, Smith is the perfect compliment to having Timmonen.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Kronwall needs to be paired with another solid defenseman. Lilja is obviously not a solid defenseman, which explains some of his bad play last night.

I was absolutley fuming when I saw that pairing to start the game. Those two should never under any circumstance being playing on the same pairing.

Babcock really confuses me sometimes. He is a good coach in every aspect except the way he puts lines together. Zetterberg and Datsyuk should never even be considered to be broken up. Kronwall and Lilja should never be on the same defensive pairing.

And why, oh why is Kopecky still in the lineup? He has been one of the worst players on the Wings, and the most useless, since the season started. Bench him for a few games so he maybe steps it up or something. The ideal situation would be to give Downey the spot full-time, and let Ellis and Kopecky battle it out for the final spot, but I know that will never happen in a million years.

I'm not ragging on Babcock or anything, since he is a good coach, but he needs to do a better job of his line combinations. Sometimes he really doesn't put the right players together.

[Heaton 1]

Kronwall needs to be paired with another solid defenseman. Lilja is obviously not a solid defenseman, which explains some of his bad play last night.

I was absolutley fuming when I saw that pairing to start the game. Those two should never under any circumstance being playing on the same pairing.

Babcock really confuses me sometimes. He is a good coach in every aspect except the way he puts lines together. Zetterberg and Datsyuk should never even be considered to be broken up. Kronwall and Lilja should never be on the same defensive pairing.

And why, oh why is Kopecky still in the lineup? He has been one of the worst players on the Wings, and the most useless, since the season started. Bench him for a few games so he maybe steps it up or something. The ideal situation would be to give Downey the spot full-time, and let Ellis and Kopecky battle it out for the final spot, but I know that will never happen in a million years.

I'm not ragging on Babcock or anything, since he is a good coach, but he needs to do a better job of his line combinations. Sometimes he really doesn't put the right players together.

To be honest if Drake keeps playing like he's playing he needs to be benched quicker than Kopecky. Obviously Drake plays twice as much as Kopecky, but Kopecky at very least is on the + side where Drake has the worst +/- on the team. His fights mask the problem and that's what savvy veterens do when their skills are all but gone.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

To be honest if Drake keeps playing like he's playing he needs to be benched quicker than Kopecky. Obviously Drake plays twice as much as Kopecky, but Kopecky at very least is on the + side where Drake has the worst +/- on the team. His fights mask the problem and that's what savvy veterens do when their skills are all but gone.

I dont agree. Should Kronwall, Draper, Cleary and Lebda all be benched because of a bad +/-? No, Drake is playing well, it isnt his fault we cant score 5on5, once we start, these bad +/-'s will be gone.

http://redwings.nhl.com/team/app?gameType=...page&srt=pm - Stat sheet

[lets go pavel 2]

Okay, trade him FOR WHO?!?!?!?

WHO SHOULD WE GET, OR WHO/WHAT DO YOU WANT TO GET, IN RETURN FOR KRONWALL?

Okay, long way off and purely hypothetical, but if Kronner continues with the up and down season (and i realize it's barely begun) I would consider including him in a package for Hossa at the deadline, assuming we can lock him up for a couple years. Hossa would bring us the much-needed goal-scoring forward, and it's decent odds that Atlanta won't make the playoffs and Hossa could want out ... and we've got some young D-guys waiting in the wings (no pun intended), particularly Quincey ... don't know if we can afford Hossa though ...

[Heaton 1]

I dont agree. Should Kronwall, Draper, Cleary and Lebda all be benched because of a bad +/-? No, Drake is playing well, it isnt his fault we cant score 5on5, once we start, these bad +/-'s will be gone.

http://redwings.nhl.com/team/app?gameType=...page&srt=pm - Stat sheet

Well, Babcock disagrees since he was benched last night due to poor play.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I was reading about that today, I guess your right, Drakes gotta pick it up.

[Heaton 1]

I was reading about that today, I guess your right, Drakes gotta pick it up.

I appreciate what he's trying to do, I really and honestly truly do, I understnad he's trying to bring something that the Wings don't have but if he hadn't fought 3 times people wouldn't be nearly as high on him when you're looking at the brass tax.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I wouldnt say cheaply..not by a long shot! I think Philly won that trade actually. Jason Smith is damn good, and brings them the leadership they really need. Which explains why he was made captain! Lupul was good in Anaheim and has potential, he didnt work in Edmonton for whatever reason but he's a really good gamble to take on.

In terms of trade return....Smith/Lupul >>>> Kronwall. It would obviously have to be something pretty good in addition to Kronwall (not just a draft pick)

Well I dunno about Lupul being that big of a deal- his stock was the lowest it's probably ever been at the time of that trade. Smith is good, yeah, but he's not a highly-touted future franchise defenseman the way Pikinen is/was.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Well I dunno about Lupul being that big of a deal- his stock was the lowest it's probably ever been at the time of that trade. Smith is good, yeah, but he's not a highly-touted future franchise defenseman the way Pikinen is/was.

I agree it was at its lowest, but still fairly high though as it had only been one down year after joining a new team. Its not out of the realm of possibilities at all that he could bounce right back up to his 28 goal form. Still just turned 24 years old. But whether or not Philly or Edmonton won that trade isnt really the point i was trying to make, it was just that the package of Smith and Lupul is far superior to the trade value Kronwall had at the time of the deal. I took your post as meaning had we offered Kronwall for Pitkanen that Philly wouldve taken that trade instead. If thats not the case then my fault!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I agree it was at its lowest, but still fairly high though as it had only been one down year after joining a new team. Its not out of the realm of possibilities at all that he could bounce right back up to his 28 goal form. Still just turned 24 years old. But whether or not Philly or Edmonton won that trade isnt really the point i was trying to make, it was just that the package of Smith and Lupul is far superior to the trade value Kronwall had at the time of the deal. I took your post as meaning had we offered Kronwall for Pitkanen that Philly wouldve taken that trade instead. If thats not the case then my fault!

Yeah- I was just saying that I thought Edmonton got a decent deal given how good Pitkanen could end up being. Lupul could very well return to his Mighty Duck form, in which case Philly did pretty well. If not they traded Pitkanen for Smith and Edmonton wins . Of course that speculates that Pitkanen lives up to his potential.

s***, trades really are tough to guage without the benefit of hindsight. I guess that's why the Panthers hate themselves...

We'd have to pair someone else up with Kronvall if we wanted to trade for Pitkanen in Edmonton's place over the summer, but I don't think that trade would really be worth it. Kronvall is just as likely to become a number one defenseman as Pitkanen is at this point, no?

[Guest Lebda4Pres]

Send Kronwall to the minors we have to much talent to be wasting a roster spot on a s***ty swede. Either that or trade him for a low draft pick cause thats about all hes worth.

Edited October 14, 2007 by Lebda4Pres