NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) It's only silly if you think personal achievement is the only thing that factors in. Statistically, yes, Fedorov has a much more solid case. Again, I wasn't arguing that the Wings should or should not retire either. I'm speculating what they are likely to do, for all sorts of reasons beyond just stats and personal awards. If anything, I think too many numbers are retired (see Bourque in Colorado after only one season), and they probably should retire neither. Neither is in the same category as Lids. You say you are "speculating what the Wings are likely to do" is to retire both Fedorov and Shanny. What basis do you have to make that statment? Edited October 19, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 In my opinion Lids will be the next wing to have there number up in the rafters. I see no reason why not. The wings have had lot of great players over the years, but only a small hand full had been great enough to get there number retired, and i think lids belongs in that category. He's one of the best defenseman to ever have played in the the game of hockey. He's won 3 cups and many awards. But most important of all is, lids has been a wing his whole carere, a true wing. here's a list of some things that i think qualify him to have His number retired. -he's won 5 of the last 6 norris trophies, only doug harvy and bobby orr have won more. plus he was nominated a total of eight times for the norris, and he is the first European player in NHL awarded the Norris Trophy. -there are 73 defenseman in the hockey hall of fame. only 21 defenseman have ever won the trophy Norris. so it's easy to say, one day his name will be there. -nominated a total of eight times for the Norris -he was second best his rookie year. -3 cups -Played in NHL All-Star Game in 1996, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 and 2007 -15-year of being a wing, plus more to come. -the best replacement for captian after Steve left. -he plays 20+ minutes a game -14th defenseman to ever record 600 assists -he's been one of our alternate captian since the 97-98 season -the whole league recognizes him as one of the best in the NHL. -Gold medal at the 1991 World Championship. -Named to the NHL All-Rookie Team in 1992 -he has one Conn Smythe Trophy -Olympic gold medal with Sweden in 2006 -Detroit Red Wings' franchise record for points in a season for a defenseman, 2005-06 (he had 81 points) I know i missed some things, but you get the point. So......what do you guys think, do you agree his number should be retired and sent up to the rafters? This isn't even debateable. HIs number will be retired and he will enter the HOF as soon as he is eligeable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingsgirl001 983 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 If Lids's number ISN'T retired...then there is something seriously wrong with Detroit. It should almost be a given, just like it was with Stevie. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Lidstrom (#5) --> Unequivocally, yes, his number gets retired Shanahan (#14) --> A lot of the arguments that apply against Fedorov also work against Shanny, he didn't retire as a Wing, and he occasionally bitched at the organization (he complained about playing time during the '02 Playoffs!). Still he won 3 Cups... Fedorov (#91) --> In my opinion, Fedorov is more deserving than Shanahan. Yes, Shanny was "the missing piece," but the missing piece to what? Right...Fedorov and Yzerman brought this team out of the dark ages, and Fedorov was putting up MVP type numbers as a Wing before Shanny even joined the team. Putting aside the attitude and the Russian-ness, you look at what he actually did for the Wings, and I think he should be strongly considered. Chelios (#24) --> See, herein lies the problem...great Hall of Fame player, but which team should he be remembered with? Although he won more with the Wings, his best years were certainly as a Blackhawk, no way he gets his # retired. Konstantinov (#16) --> On merit and longevity alone, there's no way he deserves his number retired. But if the legendary Brett Hull won't even wear your number out of respect, who will? #16 is a de facto retired number, and one wonders if that will ever change. With any great player, you have to ask "Does this person deserve to have their # retired somewhere?" If the answer is yes, then: "Where?" For #91, the answer is Detroit, though I'm not sure it will ever happen. Guys like Chelios, who is more deserving than Paul Coffey, for example, should probably have their # retired elsewhere. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Yes, and I believe it will as long as he retires a Wing, and I don't say that lightly. Keep in mind I don't think Federov or Shanny should have their numbers retired in Detroit even though for some reason a good number of people around here do. One of the GR kids was wearing #14 in preseason. I disagree neither #14 nor #91 should be retired. They were both great for us when they were here but they weren't in the same category as Lindsay, Delvecchio, Yzermann, Howe, Sawchuck or Abel (or Lidstrom). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flip-check 6 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 What?!?! How can you put Lids in the same category as Federov or Shanny? I'm really questioning your sanity here. NFM: TMI said Neither is in the same category as Lids. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyukian Geek 2 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 No question in my mind, this will happen and SHOULD happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) NFM: TMI said Neither is in the same category as Lids. WOW! I need to stop working 50 hour weeks! For some reason I read it wrong. Thanks for the correction FC, I'll make the edit. One of the GR kids was wearing #14 in preseason. I disagree neither #14 nor #91 should be retired. They were both great for us when they were here but they weren't in the same category as Lindsay, Delvecchio, Yzermann, Howe, Sawchuck or Abel (or Lidstrom). Nobody is questioning whether or not Fedorov and Shanny were great for the Wings. The question here is about the standard Detroit uses to determine the numbers that get retired. The numbers that do get that honor are a higher standard than most of league. Edited October 19, 2007 by Never Forget Mac #25 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincanni 1 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) I say he ends his career playing one year for the Avalanche then gets his jersey raised to the rafters of the Pepsi Center after he wins the cup! Edit: If any one takes this post seriously they need to step outside, take a long walk and recontemplate their life. Edited October 19, 2007 by Vincanni Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flip-check 6 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 WOW! I need to stop working 50 hour weeks! For some reason I read it wrong. Thanks for the correction FC, I'll make the edit. No prob, I figured it was just a bad read. We like to argue here, but I know you haven't lost your mind to LGW - yet. Edit: If any one takes this post seriously they need to step outside, take a long walk and recontemplate end their life. Mean? Yes. Appropriate? Depends who you ask! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Yes, he should. But, if he wins the Norris and we win the cup, then it's a no brainer that he'll be up there. 4 cups and 6 norris trophys, oh man, DO IT NICK! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest jaytan Report post Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) I just wasn't sure on your post. It sounded like you were inferring the Avs haven't been around long enough to raise Sakic up, but good, that can of worms is not opened. I didn't even know Roy had been retired until about fifteen minutes ago. At least the Avs have one credible retiree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Wah (yup, that really redirects to it) The Wings effectively ended his career with the 7-0 Game 7 in '02. He played the next year for some reason, but then called it quits. Apparently, they've retired his number already while the Habs haven't. Chelios (#24) --> See, herein lies the problem...great Hall of Fame player, but which team should he be remembered with? Although he won more with the Wings, his best years were certainly as a Blackhawk, no way he gets his # retired. what's to stop chris chelios from forcing the nhl to retire both numbers 7 and 24 leaguewide in his honor? Edited October 19, 2007 by jaytan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Absolutely, his number will be retired. He's been the most consistent athlete in any sport over the last 10 plus years. With everything that he's done for the Wings, if they don't retire his number, then they'll never retire anyone after Yzerman. Lidstrom is as good as it gets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnnyoski 0 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Is this really a question that needs to be asked? The achievements you listed in the original post gives anyone that doesn't even know hockey the answer. Nic will be the last Red Wing to have his number retired for quite some time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 When it comes to retiring numbers, only one standard need apply: It should be blatantly obvious that the player in question deserves it. If there's debate, as in the case of Shanny or Fedorov, the answer is no. If the best you can say is that it should be strongly considered, the answer is no....you shouldn't have to consider. Retiring a number is an even greater honor than the Hall of Fame. I think even Vladdy's #16 should return to circulation eventually - IMO the proper tribute is to leave his number out of circulation until the last player who was a teammate of his retires. Then return it to the locker room. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 One of the GR kids was wearing #14 in preseason. I disagree neither #14 nor #91 should be retired. They were both great for us when they were here but they weren't in the same category as Lindsay, Delvecchio, Yzermann, Howe, Sawchuck or Abel (or Lidstrom). It's not just one of the GR kids during preseason. Meech is with the roster now and his number is #14. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hiei 192 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 Lidstrom: If his number ain't retired, i'm walking right up to the PizzaMan's house and i'm gonna ***** him out. Shanahan: nah, not really. Sorry shanny. Fedorov: No. This'd be like debating who to retire for #24, Chelios or Probert? Chelios #24: No. he played some good years for Montreal and Chicago before going to Detroit. That, and the Probert Fight Fans may not be too happy...Retire it under both??? Konstantinov: no. Although Brett Hull took #17 in Konstantinov's Honor, it'll eventually fade from memory... Osgood: I dunno. I'm thinking if Jimmy Howard is as good as they say, he's next. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Izzy24 44 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 what's to stop chris chelios from forcing the nhl to retire both numbers 7 and 24 leaguewide in his honor? Nothing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingnut40 176 Report post Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) If Lids's number ISN'T retired...then there is something seriously wrong with Detroit. It should almost be a given, just like it was with Stevie. Exactlly. It's not a matter of if it will happen, but when will it happen. Nick is sick. Plane and simple. If that diving save he made in game 6 of the Shark series doesn't scream "I'm the best skater/european/defenceman to ever put on skates and my number should be retired.", then I don't know what does. I'm diggin' the fact that Cheli is the Chuck Norris of the LGW boards. Edited October 19, 2007 by wingnut40 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
omnipotent_hudler 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 Detroit has always been stingy in the way they retire their numbers... I like that; alot. I think it says something about the organization that the only two players out of all those awesome players from the '90s to the early '00s to be retired will be Lidstrom and Yzerman. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishtemper14+25 11 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 this is not really debatable i mean he is one of the best defenseman ever, but he also has been one of the best leaders in his time with the wings...as long as he retires here he will have his number retired Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zata40 3 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 Zata40 asks, "Do you think it will happen?" Lidstrom is presently a five-time winner of the Norris Trophy and intends to retire as a Red Wing. Isn't it a foregone conclusion? Tell me Zata40, do you think the sun will shine tomorrow? or better than that: Do you think other useless threads will follow yours? Yeah, sadly they will, just as sure as the sun will shine tomorrow! Did you read my first post, or did you just read the title? I was saying why i think his number SHOULD be retired. I was asking if others AGREED with me .And so far everyone has had the same opinion as me, and that is yes. P.S. Piss off. this is not a useless thread, it sparked alot of conversation over wings retired numbers. and who are you to say that anyways, your barely even active in these forms. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jeremy88 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 If he retires with the Red Wings, which I don't see any reason why he wouldn't finish his career here in Detroit, his number will be hanging up in the rafters next to that banner with the 19 on it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jenova0 0 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 #5 will be retired when Lidstrom retires, EOD. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Noodle 39 14 Report post Posted October 20, 2007 No doubt about it Lidstrom will get his number retired here. He's one of the best D-men i have ever seen and probably one of the best ever! Here's hoping to see more great things from our captain and more of his wicked slapshots lighting the lamp! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
