what would it take to get vinny lecavalier?

[Kutcher 0]

My exact quote was "I can't believe how many people are willing to trade Datsyuk for Vinny." not "I can't believe how many people WANT to trade Datsyuk."

... So, read carefully next time. I'm aware that nobody is out trying to convince management to trade Datsyuk,

I'm trying, but Holland won't take my calls.

I merely think it's ironic how we expect loyalty out of our players (despite the fact that they can get a few extra bucks elsewhere), and yet label them expendible if we can better our team without them.

Is that not the point of a hockey team, to ice the best possible, screw loyalty do you want a team like the leafs.

It just makes me feel that if you're willing to trade someone who has shown up every season to play hard, has signed a long term deal to stay with Detroit, and has been an all around loyal guy... well then you lose the moral high ground to complain about guys like Federov, Shanny, and Schneids leaving for an extra buck.

It'd be a different story if Datsyuk wasn't showing up to play hard or earn his paycheck (ala' Lang).

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Is that not the point of a hockey team, to ice the best possible, screw loyalty do you want a team like the leafs.

Honestly, I don't mind that opinion at all.. but if it's an opinion you're going to have then don't complain about players not having loyalty. That's my point. If "screw loyalty, lets have the best team" is our #1 concern as fans, then we can't really complain when players have their own egocentric prerogative and persue bloated contracts instead of a cup with Detroit. We all know Dats could have gotten more cash elsewhere.

[Kp-Wings 3]

Let's go trade Datsyuk for Vinny!!!1!1

[Kutcher 0]

Honestly, I don't mind that opinion at all.. but if it's an opinion you're going to have then don't complain about players not having loyalty. That's my point. If "screw loyalty, lets have the best team" is our #1 concern as fans, then we can't really complain when players have their own egocentric prerogative and persue bloated contracts instead of a cup with Detroit. We all know Dats could have gotten more cash elsewhere.

I'll never complain as long as being a competitive team is the #1 concern of this organization. I don't bleed Red and White so they can make money and watch the same guys do nothing. I bleed it because the Wings will do whatever it takes to be competitive. Which every team should do. Example, Philly grabbing the biggest UFA name out there last summer.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

I'll never complain as long as being a competitive team is the #1 concern of this organization. I don't bleed Red and White so they can make money and watch the same guys do nothing. I bleed it because the Wings will do whatever it takes to be competitive. Which every team should do. Example, Philly grabbing the biggest UFA name out there last summer.

Just remember, if every fan thought like you we probably would have traded Yzerman like Bowman wanted, because at the time it was the general consensus that we couldn't win with him as our leader.

Edited November 11, 2007 by RedWings Gone Wild

[motorcitykid 42]

"what would it take to get vinny lecavalier?"

Shouldn't that read "Roberto Luongo"? Discuss.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Explain how Thornton and Lecavlier aren't similar players? They are big and elite, throw their weight around, one sets up more than the other and one scores more. That's where the differences end, I mean if Thornton was with a setup man and not a goal scorer there is no reason why he wouldn't score 45+ a season. Just like if Vinny were with a goal scorer and not a setup man he would net 70+ assists a year.

Either way, for either of them I'd trade anyone the Wings have, hell I'd even give them Dats a prospect and a 1st rounder if that's what it would take. I mean the guy is better than Dats and will be for 10+ years, and he's a better fighter than anyone on our team.

I wouldn't put Thornton in the elite group. As someone else said, he needs players around him to be good. Vinny can take over a game on his own. Yes, they are both big guys, but when was the last time you Thornton drop the gloves, or throw a bone crushing hit? It doesn't happen. He is not a power forward. However, in Vinny's case, he does hit, and boy does he fight. Anyone remember the SCF when Vinny fought Iggy? You just don't see that type of play from Thornton.

Vinny is a much more balanced player, look at his numbers, he doesn't put up 96 assist and 29 goals. Vinny is perennially almost a 50/50 player (not 50g 50a, but percentage of each). If Thornton doesn't have good goal scores around him, he doesn't produce. Plain and simple.

The thing you are forgetting about Thornton is he doesn't have a shot, and he isn't a deke specialist. He is a fantastic set up man, but he will never be a goal scorer. I'd be surprised if he ever hit 40 goals.

Vinny plays with St. Louis and Prospal. To call either of those guys a set up man is ridiculous.

Someone else already touched on this, but IF a trade were to happen to get Vinny in Detroit, the starting point is either Hank or Pav. Trading away Pav would be the right move on paper as the salaries would be the biggest factor. However, Pav would fit much better with Vinny than Hank. Pav is an unbelievable set up man, Vinny is a natural goal scorer.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I f you think this team is good enough as is to win the cup then you are mis guided. YOu wouldnt want vinny then you air are A IDIOT

Datsyuk and Zetterberg are exactly what we need to win the cup. What is misguided is the usual thought process that what we have isn't good enough. Last year the Ducks didn't win the cup, the Wings lost it. We have the tools and then some, and if you would want to f*** with the mix thats meshing right now to bring in Lecavlier and think that a cup would soon follow, then I just feel bad for you. Have a little faith in the team we have, they have rarely given you reason not to. I love our team because its a team of WORKERS, skills or not. Vinny is great and all, but I would much rather have Dats or Zata anyday.

[Kp-Wings 3]

"what would it take to get vinny lecavalier?"

Shouldn't that read "Roberto Luongo"? Discuss.

Samulesson, Meech, and a 3rd for Luongo?

MAKE IT HAPPEN KENNI!!!1

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

I wouldn't put Thornton in the elite group. As someone else said, he needs players around him to be good. Vinny can take over a game on his own. Yes, they are both big guys, but when was the last time you Thornton drop the gloves, or throw a bone crushing hit? It doesn't happen. He is not a power forward. However, in Vinny's case, he does hit, and boy does he fight. Anyone remember the SCF when Vinny fought Iggy? You just don't see that type of play from Thornton.

Vinny is a much more balanced player, look at his numbers, he doesn't put up 96 assist and 29 goals. Vinny is perennially almost a 50/50 player (not 50g 50a, but percentage of each). If Thornton doesn't have good goal scores around him, he doesn't produce. Plain and simple.

The thing you are forgetting about Thornton is he doesn't have a shot, and he isn't a deke specialist. He is a fantastic set up man, but he will never be a goal scorer. I'd be surprised if he ever hit 40 goals.

Vinny plays with St. Louis and Prospal. To call either of those guys a set up man is ridiculous.

Someone else already touched on this, but IF a trade were to happen to get Vinny in Detroit, the starting point is either Hank or Pav. Trading away Pav would be the right move on paper as the salaries would be the biggest factor. However, Pav would fit much better with Vinny than Hank. Pav is an unbelievable set up man, Vinny is a natural goal scorer.

With that logic Vinny is better than Crosby, as crosby has a similar goal to assit ratio.

[toby91_ca 620]

With that logic Vinny is better than Crosby, as crosby has a similar goal to assit ratio.

Thornton had 22 goals last year, 29 the year before that and 23 the year before that. He is on pace for 29 this year.

Crosby had 36 goals last year, 39 the year before and is on pace for 43 this year. He is definately more of a goal scoring threat than Thornton.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

With that logic Vinny is better than Crosby, as crosby has a similar goal to assit ratio.

Cute, but not quite true. The goal to assist ratio has nothing to do with how good the player is. What I was getting at is the fact that Thornton isn't a scoring threat. He is a set up man, and to call him a power forward is laughable.

Furthermore, as much as I dislike Crosby, you have to give it up to the guy. If he had half the linemates Thornton has, it'd be something special to watch. No one sucks more Crosby cock than my buddy, so I hear it all the time. One thing that is true, the Reckin' Ball and Malone just don't cut it as linemates for Crosby. Insert even a second rate scorer, like say Satan, and he will put up huge numbers with Crosby. But that's for another thread.

Edited November 11, 2007 by BringHomeTheCup!

[Kutcher 0]

I can guarentee that if Thornton was placed on a line with a premier set up man he would have no problem scoring 50+.

And its not so much the guys around him being great, he makes them great, the plays he makes to set up goals are pretty spectacular. Anyone in the NHL could score 90% of the goals he assists on. And I put Thornton into that category because when he played with Boston he was more of a power forward than vinny is now. Maybe he lost his way in SJ but he still dishes out the big hit now and again, and if challenged I'm sure he'd drop the gloves.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

if they were to trade vinny they wouldnt take datsyuk or zetterberg cause the reason for trading him would be to shed payroll from a big player to add other good players with smaller contracts , so it wouldnt work for us cause we would then have vinny zetterberg datsyuk rafalski and lidstrom in 2 yrs making 6-7 mill per

for arguments sake it would take ......

valteri filppulla

niklas kronwall ( some of you think he sucks but hes young with potential and 3 mill price isnt too bad for tb , not too many solid d-men either)

daniel larsson ( cause they got no goalies in their system ... and trading larsson = HUGE MISTAKE

1st rd pick

+ they save 3 mill cap space

for

vinny lecavalier

Edited November 12, 2007 by wingswillwincup

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I can guarentee that if Thornton was placed on a line with a premier set up man he would have no problem scoring 50+.

And its not so much the guys around him being great, he makes them great, the plays he makes to set up goals are pretty spectacular. Anyone in the NHL could score 90% of the goals he assists on. And I put Thornton into that category because when he played with Boston he was more of a power forward than vinny is now. Maybe he lost his way in SJ but he still dishes out the big hit now and again, and if challenged I'm sure he'd drop the gloves.

Not so. Thornton has never been a power forward, he has never even scored 40 goals in a season. He is a set up man bu nature. Again, he has no shot. He is a top passer in the NHL, but it would be a stretch to put him in the top 60 goal scores. Even in juniors he wasn't a scorer. Why is that so hard to swallow? And no, anyone can't score the goals he sets up. Although he does make average players look a lot better (cue up Murray highlights) it does take someone who has a scoring touch to put them in. You wouldn't see Maltby turn into a 30 goal score just from playing with Joe.

To say that at any point in Joe's career his was/is a better power forward than Vinny is now is just plain wrong.

Edited November 12, 2007 by BringHomeTheCup!

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

if they were to trade vinny they wouldnt take datsyuk or zetterberg cause the reason for trading him would be to shed payroll from a big player to add other good players with smaller contracts , so it wouldnt work for us cause we would then have vinny zetterberg datsyuk rafalski and lidstrom in 2 yrs making 6-7 mill per

for arguments sake it would take ......

valteri filppulla

niklas kronwall ( some of you think he sucks but hes young with potential and 3 mill price isnt too bad for tb , not too many solid d-men either)

daniel larsson ( cause they got no goalies in their system ... and trading larsson = HUGE MISTAKE

1st rd pick

+ they save 3 mill cap space

for

vinny lecavalier

It would take a lot more than that for the Wings to acquire Vinny.

First off, any trade that Tampa would make would have to include either a bona fide, young, number one goaltender, or a player of equal caliber to that of Vinny. There is no way Tampa gives up Vinny for Flip, Nik '"I'm one shift away from another freak season ending injury" Kronwall, a B prospect, and a pick. Not gunna happen.

Let's for a second say that Tampa was foolish enough to make that deal. It doesn't work for Detroit. If they don't move some payroll to Tampa, they don't have enough to sign Hank, and fill the whole left by Flip.

That trade suggestion isn't feasible for either team.

[eva unit zero 271]

It would take a lot more than that for the Wings to acquire Vinny.

First off, any trade that Tampa would make would have to include either a bona fide, young, number one goaltender, or a player of equal caliber to that of Vinny. There is no way Tampa gives up Vinny for Flip, Nik '"I'm one shift away from another freak season ending injury" Kronwall, a B prospect, and a pick. Not gunna happen.

Let's for a second say that Tampa was foolish enough to make that deal. It doesn't work for Detroit. If they don't move some payroll to Tampa, they don't have enough to sign Hank, and fill the whole left by Flip.

That trade suggestion isn't feasible for either team.

Fill the hole left by Flip? You do realize in that scenario we just added Vincent Lecavalier, and Flip was the only forward going the other way? Vinny IS the guy filling the hole left by Flip!

That said, it's not gonna happen.

[ben_usmc 253]

The thread topic was 'what would it take to get Vinny.'

The general consensus was 'probably Dats or Z.'

Z is better than Dats at both ends. So Dats is the guy you'd want to give up.

Saying 'Dats is the guy I'd be willing to give up' is not the same as saying 'Let's go trade Dats!!'

Z is not a better set up man then Datsyuk nor is he better on D. Datsyuk lead the league in take aways, Z is great but man I almost hope Dats gets traded so he embarrases all you blind mofos. Z would not be NEARLY as effective, and Dats probably would still be putting up assists and leading in takeaways

[Guest wingswillwincup]

It would take a lot more than that for the Wings to acquire Vinny.

First off, any trade that Tampa would make would have to include either a bona fide, young, number one goaltender, or a player of equal caliber to that of Vinny. There is no way Tampa gives up Vinny for Flip, Nik '"I'm one shift away from another freak season ending injury" Kronwall, a B prospect, and a pick. Not gunna happen.

Let's for a second say that Tampa was foolish enough to make that deal. It doesn't work for Detroit. If they don't move some payroll to Tampa, they don't have enough to sign Hank, and fill the whole left by Flip.

That trade suggestion isn't feasible for either team.

if you read what i wrote i said it wouldnt work out for us cause we'd have 5 players making 6-7 mill each per year

and yes kronwall has had injury problems but hes still young and has lots of potential , besides danny boyle from what i can think of there isnt anyone else on tampa bay's d id rather have then kronwall , there defence and goaltending suck and they got no goaltending prospects either which is why i included larsson who i think will be a number 1 goalie and i personally wouldnt trade him ........ im not saying that trade would never happen but they could do worse

filppula if you put him in tampa on the 1st line with st louis he can rack up points , and 4 million cap space they'd save off the deal would help them get a pretty good player at 4 million per as well .............. anyways this is just for arguments sake i dont ever expect vinny to get traded st louis or richards if his big contract could ever be dealt are the 2 likely to be dealt if they deal one of the 3 ...... my moneys on st louis

[toby91_ca 620]

kronwall has had injury problems but hes still young and has lots of potential

He really isn't that young anymore.

[egroen 384]

Originally Zetterberg was better in the defensive end than Datsyuk, but I do not think you can make that claim anymore. Datsyuk is a constant danger out there.

Anyways, I would trade Zetterberg for Lecavalier b/c Datsyuk+Lecavalier is a better combo than Zetterberg+Lecavalier. Regardless of "who is better", I just think Datsyuk, more of a pure setup man, would complement Lecavalier better.

[Kutcher 0]

Not so. Thornton has never been a power forward, he has never even scored 40 goals in a season. He is a set up man bu nature. Again, he has no shot. He is a top passer in the NHL, but it would be a stretch to put him in the top 60 goal scores. Even in juniors he wasn't a scorer. Why is that so hard to swallow? And no, anyone can't score the goals he sets up. Although he does make average players look a lot better (cue up Murray highlights) it does take someone who has a scoring touch to put them in. You wouldn't see Maltby turn into a 30 goal score just from playing with Joe.

To say that at any point in Joe's career his was/is a better power forward than Vinny is now is just plain wrong.

When has he ever played with a legit set-up man? Never, saying he was a better power forward has nothing to do with goal scoring, its points and hits/fights, so by that measure he has been since he typically gets more points than Vinny and he does hit and if needed has shown he will fight.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure if you put Malts on a line with Thornton he would score 30 goals, and have you seen most of his plays, they involve a beauty pass that is easy a pie to pop in the net.

But I guess since Vinny gets more goals he's a better power forward, so I guess last years top power forward was Heatley right? cause he had more goals than everyone else?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

When has he ever played with a legit set-up man? Never, saying he was a better power forward has nothing to do with goal scoring, its points and hits/fights, so by that measure he has been since he typically gets more points than Vinny and he does hit and if needed has shown he will fight.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure if you put Malts on a line with Thornton he would score 30 goals, and have you seen most of his plays, they involve a beauty pass that is easy a pie to pop in the net.

But I guess since Vinny gets more goals he's a better power forward, so I guess last years top power forward was Heatley right? cause he had more goals than everyone else?

To be a power forward, you need to be a scoring threat, something that Thornton, really at any professional level, really never has been. Just because he is big, and can put up points doesn't make him a power forward.

[Guest wingswillwincup]

He really isn't that young anymore.

hes only 26 hes not old by any means and he's had a few unfortunate injuries but luckily he wasnt repeatedly injured in the same area .... i really think hes only gonna get better , don't know about you or anyone else here but i like what i seen from him so far this season

Originally Zetterberg was better in the defensive end than Datsyuk, but I do not think you can make that claim anymore. Datsyuk is a constant danger out there.

Anyways, I would trade Zetterberg for Lecavalier b/c Datsyuk+Lecavalier is a better combo than Zetterberg+Lecavalier. Regardless of "who is better", I just think Datsyuk, more of a pure setup man, would complement Lecavalier better.

your insain if you think datsyuk is better then zetterberg, zetterberg can set up players just as well as datsyuk but he also has the potential to get 40-50 goals a season , can't say the same about datsyuk ..... zetterberg is a leader , a future captain .... can't say the same about datsyuk... and i dont know where you get this idea that datsyuk is so much better defensivly then zetterberg , i wouldnt say zetterberg is better but id say there about even , there both great at checking other teams best players and can kill penalties

[#1redwingfan 0]

everyone should stop arguing about who is better zetter or dats. they are both equally valuable to the wings & they are not leaving for a long time. all these anti-Z or anti-dats vibes are really upsetting me.

edit: ignore my avatar/custom title. i appreciate both zetterberg and datsyuk equally (pav in the sig, hank in avatar)

Edited November 12, 2007 by #1redwingfan