HockeyCrazy3033 168 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Do you really believe that? Can you really say with a straight face that the 95/96 team wasn't stacked? They were pretty much stacked for most of the 90s. In terms of Roy and Brodeur, the Canadiens and Devils were not crappy teams, but they were not comparable to Detroit. Thinking he didn't benefit from playign on Detroit in terms of his number of wins is just strange, I don't see it as an opinion. He has 344 wins, 260 came playing with the Wings. His winning percentage with the Wings = .641, with other teams = .525 (still good, but had he not played with the Wings, he would have far less wins). 01/02 season with New York, his teammate Garth Snow had a better winning % 02/03 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brathwaite had a better winning % 03/04 season with St. Louis, his teammate Brent Johnson (far less games however) had a better winning %. I'm not trying to say those goalies were better than him, just disputing that he is hall worthy because of the number of wins he has. I didn't say he didn't benefit from playing with the Wings. Any goalie would, but that doesn't mean that the team in front of him is the only reason why his numbers are up there. You have to be a damn good/great goalie to get that many wins, and be up in nearly all the stats career wise. That's just the way I see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 I didn't say he didn't benefit from playing with the Wings. Any goalie would, but that doesn't mean that the team in front of him is the only reason why his numbers are up there. You have to be a damn good/great goalie to get that many wins, and be up in nearly all the stats career wise. That's just the way I see it. I agree for the most part. Osgood is a very good goalie, I just don't see him as HOF material. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 I agree for the most part. Osgood is a very good goalie, I just don't see him as HOF material. So if Ozzie gets 25 wins this year (total 361), and plays 5 more seasons and finishes out with 450 wins (average 18 per season)...you still don't think he goes to the Hall? That would make him top five all time, plus the Red Wings record holder. It's a completely achievable mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryMalredo 2 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Ozzie is a second tier goaltender of his era, on par with Richter, Barasso, Vernon, Beezer, etc. He's not comparable to elite players like Roy, Hasek, and Brodeur. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 So if Ozzie gets 25 wins this year (total 361), and plays 5 more seasons and finishes out with 450 wins (average 18 per season)...you still don't think he goes to the Hall? That would make him top five all time, plus the Red Wings record holder. It's a completely achievable mark. I think 400+ wins would be hard to ignore, but like most goalie stats, I hate it, because it is more to due to the team. Here's the thing, look at all goalies that played for the Wings over the past 15-20 years: Hasek - .717 win % Joseph - .619 win % Chelveldae - .575 win % Vernon - .659 win % Hodson - .625 win % Maracle - .594 win % Wregget - .577 win % Legace - .736 win % Do any goalies not have a great record with the Wings? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OsGOD 3 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 The thing I hate the most is the only reason ozzie gets a bad rap is cuz of them few long goals in the 98 playoffs. take them away and he has no flaws in his career. it was once said he was only good cuz of his team but he proved that wrong playing with the isles and blues. ozzie has hall of fame numbers now in 5 years or so when hes done It would be a slap in the face if he didnt go to the hall of fame. The thing I hate the most is the only reason ozzie gets a bad rap is cuz of them few long goals in the 98 playoffs. take them away and he has no flaws in his career. it was once said he was only good cuz of his team but he proved that wrong playing with the isles and blues. ozzie has hall of fame numbers now in 5 years or so when hes done It would be a slap in the face if he didnt go to the hall of fame. I know what you mean... Yzerman gets ALL THE CREDIT for that double overtime win against St. Louis... nobody ever talks about it was Ozzies SHUTOUT that allowed for him to get all that credit!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Someone asked this question to John Buccigross. Here's his answer, which I unfortunately have to agree with. Hey Bucci, I just read that Chris Osgood has 339 career wins. Now, he did play on some amazing teams, but he also won a Cup as the starting goalie (1998) for the Wings and has, I believe, 43 shutouts. Is he a Hall of Famer? What if he gets to 400 wins? No matter how good your teams are, you don't do that without being very good yourself. Take it easy, Kurt Simer Chris Osgood is 16th in all-time wins. No one can seem to figure out the criteria for goalies. Osgood has more wins and a lower goals-against average than Gump Worsley, but we all know Osgood is not going to end up in the Hockey Hall of Fame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Let's see. He's been great from the get-go. The stats are among the best. He has a HUGE fan following, and virtually everyone in hockey thinks he's a stellar guy. There's no way he won't get in the Hall of Fame. They let in a lot of other lesser-known, lesser-impact players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWings Gone Wild 6 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Sigh, i feel like a jerk because I posted this elsewhere tonight and didn't realize this thread existed. So here is my opinion on Osgood and the Hall of Fame: Depends how high Osgood goes up the wins column, but IMO Osgood will always be remembered as the guy who won a whole lot of games with the best team of the late 90s and early 2000s. Look at the other elite goalies of our era: Marty with New Jersey, Roy with Montreal and Colorado, Dom with Buffalo... these guys are synonymous with netminding in those locations during their runs... They were indisputably the #1. They are guys who were present for all the success and who were (and will be in Marty's case) unreplaceable in net after their departure. Unfortunately for Osgood, he is replaceable and has proven to be on 3 occasions (he has lost starting jobs to Vernon and Legacy, and we got Dom because of our early exits with Osgood). Osgood is a good goalie, but Detroit has always been a town that pads a goalie's regular season resume regardless of who is in net. Think about how many hall-of-fame defensemen Osgood has had in front of him. Murphy, Coffey, Lidstrom, Chelios, Fetisov... as well as 3 Selke trophy winners (Yzerman, Draper, Federov). It's hard to rack up losses when you're only facing 15-20 shots per game and the opposing goalie is facing 30-40. That's why no matter who we've had in net over the past 14-15 yrs, they've racked up the wins...Hasek, Osgood, Vernon, Legacy, Cujo... People always point to Osgood's seasons with St. Louis and the Islanders as proof he's a top goalie without the wings... but Garth Snow had a winning record in 2001-2002 too, and was 1 game below .500 in 2002-2003 with the same Islanders teams... and Snow was always a lowsy player. So I think the NY Islanders have been wrongfully panned as a place void of tallent during Osgood's stay. Last year Legacy had a winning record with St. Louis, and Osgood was playing with a St. Louis team still capable of getting to the playoffs (unlike Legacy). So don't think the hall of fame is going to look at that as a sign of hall worthy goaltending. I know I'm coming off like I'm attacking Osgood, but I'm just trying to offset the natural bias most of us have as Wings fans. My opinion isn't a popular one in Detroit, but i'd bet that it's the more prevolent one around the league. Osgood has been great, but he will always be overshadowed by the fact that the team has continually used Osgood as a second option as opposed to our first. IMO Osgood will always be Detroit's Ringo Starr, a tallent in his own right, but destined to be outshined by the guys playing in front of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryMalredo 2 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 He has a HUGE fan following, and virtually everyone in hockey thinks he's a stellar guy. There's no way he won't get in the Hall of Fame. Being a nice guy and having a lot of fans on LGW isn't something that will get Ozzie into the HHOF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 I guess one other reason that I just can't see him being a HOFer.....so far, in his 13 year career, he's been an allstar only 1 time. That just doesn't say HOFer to me. So, just off the top of my head, there may be more, here are some multiple time allstars from the recent past: Roy - 12 times Brodeur - 10 times Belfour - 8 times Hasek - 8 times Vernon - 5 times Joseph - 3 times Richter - 3 times Turco - 3 times Potvin - 3 times Luongo - 2 times Theodore - 2 times If you are really not known as one of the elite goalies of your time, how on earth could you be considered a HOFer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) I guess one other reason that I just can't see him being a HOFer.....so far, in his 13 year career, he's been an allstar only 1 time. That just doesn't say HOFer to me. So, just off the top of my head, there may be more, here are some multiple time allstars from the recent past: Roy - 12 times Brodeur - 10 times Belfour - 8 times Hasek - 8 times Vernon - 5 times Joseph - 3 times Richter - 3 times Turco - 3 times Potvin - 3 times Luongo - 2 times Theodore - 2 times If you are really not known as one of the elite goalies of your time, how on earth could you be considered a HOFer? that's a good point. It'll be strange because he's going to finish his career with at least one Stanley Cup as the starting goaltender and impressive numbers. But whether it is fair or not, Osgood isn't getting into the hall of fame. He's has never really had league wide respect as an elite goaltender. Edited November 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 5,152 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Do you really believe that? Can you really say with a straight face that the 95/96 team wasn't stacked? They were pretty much stacked for most of the 90s. 95-96, Stacked? Please! Stacked with who? Yzerman, Fedorov, Coffey, LIdstrom, Dino. If you call that being stacked, then what do you classify the 2001-02 WIngs at? Omnipotent? ...if having a D corps made up of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Coffey (who's D sucked anyway,) Rouse, Eriksson, Fetisov, Bergevin & Ramsey is being stacked then what do we have now? ...I'll give four reasons 95-96 team wasn't stacked, Primeau, Greg Johnson, Tim Taylor & Bob Errey. As a matter of fact, that team was more like the one we have now. An awesome #1 line, a good #2, the grind line & a bunch of solid players with two great goalies and Osgood is STILL one of them... ...1995-96 was not stacked with superstars, period... that's a good point. It'll be strange because he's going to finish his career with at least one Stanley Cup as the starting goaltender and impressive numbers. But whether it is fair or not, Osgood isn't getting into the hall of fame. He's has never really had league wide respect as an elite goaltender. ...because of where he played... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dustin35 0 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 what are you talking about. ozzie has been an all star 3 times Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 (edited) ...because of where he played... True. I'm not saying it's fair. Just that's how it seems to be. I think Ozzy's generally been considered a good goaltender behind a great team. Edited November 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 what are you talking about. ozzie has been an all star 3 times Unless you are referring to allstar awards outside of the NHL....are you sure about that? What years was he an allstar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedWings Gone Wild 6 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Stacked with who? Yzerman, Fedorov, Coffey, LIdstrom, Dino. If you call that being stacked, then what do you classify the 2001-02 WIngs at? Omnipotent? ...if having a D corps made up of Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Coffey (who's D sucked anyway,) Rouse, Eriksson, Fetisov, Bergevin & Ramsey is being stacked then what do we have now? Yzerman, Federov, Coffey, Lidstrom, Fetisov.. all hall of famers. Dino will probably be one too. And you forgot to mention Igor Larionov (who was playing his best NHL hockey that season) So that's 7 hall of famers.. and that season they won 62 games. Uh... 7 hall of famers on a team... how's that NOT stacked? Just because we've had teams stacked even moreso doesn't make our squad in 95-96 any less the favorite. Unless you are referring to allstar awards outside of the NHL....are you sure about that? What years was he an allstar? 96, 97, and 98... but none of this arguing changes the fact that Osgood never defined success in Detroit. We won with him once and without him twice. That's the real difference. Before Hasek Buffalo wasn't a playoff team, they were in the playoffs every year he was their starter... after he left they again missed the playoffs. Roy, 4 cups, neither team has won a cup since he left... Broduer is the only constant on the Devil's cup winning teams, and they sure won't be winning one for a while after he leaves. That is what tarnishes Osgood's legacy. He was NEVER essential. He played his role well, with dignity and skill, but he just wasn't the difference maker. That's what stops him from being an elite goalie. If Detroit never got Vernon, Hasek, Cujo, or Legacy.. and Osgood was our goalie through all these seasons he might be a hall of famer.. but that's not how things happened, and Osgood just isn't a hall of famer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 96, 97, and 98... but none of this arguing changes the fact that Osgood never defined success in Detroit. Yeah, I see that with a different source now, not sure what's wrong with the other source (wonder if I understated others as well). Odd though, I didn't question the only once thing as I really don't remember him being an allstar, other than in 96. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted November 10, 2007 Being a nice guy and having a lot of fans on LGW isn't something that will get Ozzie into the HHOF. Good luck convincing that to the other posters here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Offsides 21 Report post Posted November 11, 2007 Yeah, I see that with a different source now, not sure what's wrong with the other source (wonder if I understated others as well). Odd though, I didn't question the only once thing as I really don't remember him being an allstar, other than in 96. I know he was injured for one of the all star games and didn't play. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted November 11, 2007 I guess one other reason that I just can't see him being a HOFer.....so far, in his 13 year career, he's been an allstar only 1 time. That just doesn't say HOFer to me. So, just off the top of my head, there may be more, here are some multiple time allstars from the recent past: Roy - 12 times Brodeur - 10 times Belfour - 8 times Hasek - 8 times Vernon - 5 times Joseph - 3 times Richter - 3 times Turco - 3 times Potvin - 3 times Luongo - 2 times Theodore - 2 times If you are really not known as one of the elite goalies of your time, how on earth could you be considered a HOFer? Osgood was named to the All-Star team twice, missing the game in 97 due to injury. One problem also, though, is that much of Osgood's prime was spent with the 'World vs NA' format, which hurt goaltenders like him. In 1999 and 2000, four Eastern goaltenders played in the All-Star game. Osgood outplayed Irbe and Richter, respectively, from those two years, and was top-three in the conference had the All-Star team been conference-based. Oh, and BTW...All-Star games are a popularity contest, and have never been a reliable indicator of whether a player is HOF worthy. Unless you think guys like Valeri Bure or Viktor Kozlov are HOF worthy for their multiple All-Star appearances? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted November 11, 2007 Osgood was named to the All-Star team twice, missing the game in 97 due to injury. One problem also, though, is that much of Osgood's prime was spent with the 'World vs NA' format, which hurt goaltenders like him. In 1999 and 2000, four Eastern goaltenders played in the All-Star game. Osgood outplayed Irbe and Richter, respectively, from those two years, and was top-three in the conference had the All-Star team been conference-based. Oh, and BTW...All-Star games are a popularity contest, and have never been a reliable indicator of whether a player is HOF worthy. Unless you think guys like Valeri Bure or Viktor Kozlov are HOF worthy for their multiple All-Star appearances? Should he get in? I think so. Will he get in? I doubt it. For one, who the hell knows what those jackasses are thinking. Until they let Dino Ciccarelli in, they will forever be to me nothing but a bunch of ******* hacks who let personal s***, holier than thou attitudes and ridiculous ideas such as All-Star game appearances affect their vote. The bad thing for Ozzie is he played in an era where a crapload of elite goalies dominated for a long time. Roy Brodeur Hasek Joseph Belfour He doesn't have enough personal accolades, awards to get in I think. Even though I think he should be in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted November 11, 2007 Should he get in? I think so. Will he get in? I doubt it. For one, who the hell knows what those jackasses are thinking. Until they let Dino Ciccarelli in, they will forever be to me nothing but a bunch of ******* hacks who let personal s***, holier than thou attitudes and ridiculous ideas such as All-Star game appearances affect their vote. The bad thing for Ozzie is he played in an era where a crapload of elite goalies dominated for a long time. Roy Brodeur Hasek Joseph Belfour He doesn't have enough personal accolades, awards to get in I think. Even though I think he should be in there. The only thing Joseph has on Osgood is career wins and the Toronto media.Ozzie has w-l record, playoffs, awards, Cups, and has a good chance to get in Joseph's realm of wins, too. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour are the obvious top four, but I would argue that in the past fifteen years, Osgood has the next best set of accomplishments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted November 11, 2007 The only thing Joseph has on Osgood is career wins and the Toronto media.Ozzie has w-l record, playoffs, awards, Cups, and has a good chance to get in Joseph's realm of wins, too. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour are the obvious top four, but I would argue that in the past fifteen years, Osgood has the next best set of accomplishments. I agree. However, being the 5th/6th guy down on the totem pole, it'd be nice to see a Vezina in their or a Conn Smyth or something. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HenryMalredo 2 Report post Posted November 11, 2007 Yeah, I see that with a different source now, not sure what's wrong with the other source (wonder if I understated others as well). Odd though, I didn't question the only once thing as I really don't remember him being an allstar, other than in 96. You were probably thinking of the all star team, not the all star game. Osgood was named to the all star team (2nd team) only once in 95-96. In comparision, Tom Barraso was named an all-star 3 times, Beezer was named 2 times, Roy was named 6 times, Hasek was named 6 times, Belfour was named 3 times, and Brodeur was named 6 times Share this post Link to post Share on other sites