Datsyuk sagging at Zetterberg's expense

[Donaldjr2448 43]

Datsyuk is "Sagging" because you guys are not happy unless you are bitching an moaning.

Pure and simple.

On a very good line you have a set up man, a scorer and a mucker. As a line they are scoring at a torid pace. One wing leads the league in goals and the other is 2 assists away from leading and at one point in time was leading the league and you guys still complain or find something to worry about.

Dats is a playmaker out of the mode of Igor Larinov, yes he is flashy and yes he can score, but if he dekes out half of the team and then sets up a beautiful goal what is the problem.

And the argument that teams will focus on Z is down right foolish. Do any of you honestly think that a coach in the NHL is going to say to his guys "Let Datsyuk do whatever he wants with the puck in his hands and cover Zetterberg." NO!!!

They are successful together because one is shooting lights out and the other is a passing genius. That is why you don't trade Dats for Vinny L. Another shooter on that line breaks up the chemistry. (not to bring up another thread)

Dats is shooting more than ever now, that is why his shooting percentage is way down. He used to wait for the perfect shot and angle and then he would score on more of his shots. Pretty soon he will be able to fake the pass and take the shot and have better looks.

You guys are worried about dats season, he has 16 points in 16 games, he is a major reason why Zetterberg is having the season he is having.

If they win the cup and dats goes 10/90 and has a 100 point season are you seriously going ***** and moan and say that Dats had a horrible season.

If so, check in with the local mental hospital.

IF IT AINT BROKE DON"T FIX IT!!!

SPOT ON !!!!!! This is why Fedorov is NOT here anymore!!!! Because I bet if Dats and Fedorov changed spots, Feds would be bitching like a woman in a shoe store!!!

Ipersonally think that Dats could care less what his numbers are, as well as Z, they just simply want to win, remember there is no I in team, and you can see that with the Redwings this year!!!!!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

This is by far the weakest argument I have ever seen in my life. I have been watching the Wings for close to twenty years and have seen all stars and duds. We're privileged to have two all-time great players fall into our laps for basically nothing and we're going to bicker over who is better? Fine lets do it..

<nip>

The FACTS are:

Zetterberg is on pace to double his goal total from last season. If you can't see the connection between that and Datsyuk's goal scoring being down then you're a complete moron. Datsyuk is performing at a point per game, as a playmaker, and the scorer on his line is on pace for nearly 70 goals. What a terrible situation.

But of course, its all Zetterberg. Datsyuk is the biggest bust of all time. Datsyuk and Zetterberg need to score 70 goals a piece or the season is lost.

hey sport, I understand Datsyuk is your favorite player, but why don't you untwist your knickers and actually read what people are saying here, particularly the first post of the thread.

I haven't seen anyone say anything close to Datsyuk being a bust. Gordie merely pointed out that his goal scoring is down, which is true, and made a suggestion that he thought might lead to Dats getting more goals.

good lord man. It's just a discussion. no one is bashing Datsyuk here.

It drives me nuts that you can't mention certain players here without people freaking out and jumping to their defense, even though there's nothing to defend.

Edited November 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[chrisdetroit 189]

Who wants to mess with a good thing, right? I know, but despite how well Datsyuk is playing, its not good that he has only 2 goals in 16 games this season. I don't care if he racks up 90 assists, he's on pace for a 10 goal season.

Why is Datsyuk not the Center on that line and Zetterberg the Left Winger?

Not only are Datsyuk's goals way down, his faceoff win percentage is sagging as well. I'm inclined to believe that alot of that has to do with the fact that he's not taking as many faceoffs as a natural centerman should and therefore he's losing more than he's accustomed to.

Maybe i'm nuts but IMO Datsyuk is a better natural centerman and Zetterberg is a better natural winger. Watching Dats play left wing like its a centerman's position just doesn't look right to me. And his numbers are suffering because of it.

Don't get me wrong, Its alll good that Z is having a monster year. But IMO, we need both of these guys to be scoring. There's going to come a point, when we're 1/2 way through the season, if Dats has like 6-8 goals, that's not going to be good for anybody, no matter if Z has 100 goals by then.

(fingers crossed) that Babs would move Dats back to center and Z to the wing.

Who cares if it's Dats or Z scoring most of the goals? The fact is that the HDZ line is one of the best in the game right now. Why would you mess with it.

You are forgetting that hockey is a team sport. I don't care if Dats finishes with 2 goals and a pile of assists. It's about the team

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

This is by far the weakest argument I have ever seen in my life. I have been watching the Wings for close to twenty years and have seen all stars and duds. We're privileged to have two all-time great players fall into our laps for basically nothing and we're going to bicker over who is better? Fine lets do it..

-Who has led the team in scoring for three seasons, four most likely if the lockout didn't happen? Pavel Datsyuk

-Which player was "slumping" last season when the euro twins were separated? Zetterberg

Datsyuk, playing on a different line, albeit average was still producing at a higher rate then Zetterberg. When they were reunited, both of their numbers started to skyrocket.

-Who is being setup on the PP? Zetterberg.

Its a noticeable difference from last season. Last season Pavel would play the half boards and Zetterberg would be on the goal line. They switched postitions and this opened up the ability for Zetterberg to score more goals on the PP.

Do you all have a short term memory? Do you guys recall when Zetterberg went down last season and Datsyuk practically carried the team, at over a point per game to boot.

But of course, since Z is the best player in the league(but I thought that was Lidstrom?). He is obviously just carrying Datsyuk and Holmstrom. Datsyuk creates unbelievable space for Zetterberg and in reality draws more coverage.

Some other problems:

I can't see the clear distinction between Zetterberg's defensive play and Datsyuk's. As a matter of fact, Datsyuk is BETTER in the defensive zone. Z, on the other hand is a faster skater and has the ability to back check and break up plays.

Datsyuk is a better faceoff man

I also do not believe that Zetterberg or Datsyuk(my favorite player) is the best player in the league. They're great players but they're not THE BEST. But of course, since a Wing is at the top of the score boards, he must be the best. Even though an eighteen year old and a twenty year old are both one or two strong games from passing him..

Since Wings fans specifically are the end all of hockey knowledge, at what moment did Zetterberg pass Lidstrom as the best in the league? I thought the Nick overrating had died down, I guess not. Lidstrom may be the best player at his position(debateable) but Dats and Z are not the best centers in the league, let alone best players.

In conclusion:

Datsyuk is going to lead this team in scoring, theres no doubt in my mind. Its ok though, continue to short change his contributions with BS logic.

"Going into this season did you think Datsyuk would have two goals?" No, I didn't. I also didn't know that the Wings would almost win out the first quarter of the season and Zetterberg would lead the league in points.

Going into the season, did I think that Spezza would have 1 goal? I guess hes just a terrible player. Theres obviously no correalation between his goals/assist ratio and Heatley's goal total, or Alfreddson's for that matter.

The FACTS are:

Zetterberg is on pace to double his goal total from last season. If you can't see the connection between that and Datsyuk's goal scoring being down then you're a complete moron. Datsyuk is performing at a point per game, as a playmaker, and the scorer on his line is on pace for nearly 70 goals. What a terrible situation.

But of course, its all Zetterberg. Datsyuk is the biggest bust of all time. Datsyuk and Zetterberg need to score 70 goals a piece or the season is lost.

Does anybody know which side of the argument this dickhead is on? This is the most convoluted post i've ever read in my entire life.

Who cares if it's Dats or Z scoring most of the goals? The fact is that the HDZ line is one of the best in the game right now. Why would you mess with it.

You are forgetting that hockey is a team sport. I don't care if Dats finishes with 2 goals and a pile of assists. It's about the team

You really didn't take any time to read through this thread did you. And since you didn't, I feel no need to hold your hand and get you up to speed.

And thanks for the pep talk coach. I never knew this was a team sport. You know, cause that's why I started this thread.

Sheesh....

[Cicada 4]

this is a really erm....

POINTLESS

thread.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

No, the Zetterberg is the best player in the league discussion has gone on long enough. Its embarrassing to be a fan of a team were everyone in the fan base seems to think that Hank is blowing everyone away, single handily. If were going off of past performances and history. Datsyuk will have a better season. Or, everyone can believe that Zetterberg is going to stay at a 1.65 PPG average.

Want to put Zetterberg in consideration for best player in the league? Pair him with Cleary and Filppula. Then, if he can stay on pace with Crosby, he'll receive some consideration.

Datsyuk has been undervalued for waaaay too long by this fan base.

Do you have any reading comprehension skills at all?

This thread has nothing to do with Zetterberg being the best player in the league.

The original post was about moving Datsyuk back to his natural position at center in hope of increasing his goal production.

[2probert4 8]

Does anybody know which side of the argument this dickhead is on? This is the most convoluted post i've ever read in my entire life.

You really didn't take any time to read through this thread did you. And since you didn't, I feel no need to hold your hand and get you up to speed.

And thanks for the pep talk coach. I never knew this was a team sport. You know, cause that's why I started this thread.

Sheesh....

We should be discussing the size of Zetts gf's assets instead of arguing.

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

Does anybody know which side of the argument this dickhead is on? This is the most convoluted post i've ever read in my entire life.

I really fail to see what makes his post convoluted ... Anyways, go get some tampons and relax.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

this is a really erm....

POINTLESS

thread.

actually, though I disagree with Gordie's point, I think it's a valid discussion.

I really fail to see what makes his post convoluted ... Anyways, go get some tampons and relax.

Then go ahead and explain it to me. Because I sure don't understand what he's saying that's relevant to the original post.

Here's the post that started is all, for you chuckleheads that like to chime in without even bothering to concern yourself with the topic at hand. I've highlighted the most relevant portion, so you guys don't get tired sounding out all those big words.

Who wants to mess with a good thing, right? I know, but despite how well Datsyuk is playing, its not good that he has only 2 goals in 16 games this season. I don't care if he racks up 90 assists, he's on pace for a 10 goal season.

Why is Datsyuk not the Center on that line and Zetterberg the Left Winger?

Not only are Datsyuk's goals way down, his faceoff win percentage is sagging as well. I'm inclined to believe that alot of that has to do with the fact that he's not taking as many faceoffs as a natural centerman should and therefore he's losing more than he's accustomed to.

Maybe i'm nuts but IMO Datsyuk is a better natural centerman and Zetterberg is a better natural winger. Watching Dats play left wing like its a centerman's position just doesn't look right to me. And his numbers are suffering because of it.

Don't get me wrong, Its alll good that Z is having a monster year. But IMO, we need both of these guys to be scoring. There's going to come a point, when we're 1/2 way through the season, if Dats has like 6-8 goals, that's not going to be good for anybody, no matter if Z has 100 goals by then.

(fingers crossed) that Babs would move Dats back to center and Z to the wing.

EDITED for grammar. not that it matters since no one actually reads the posts before mouthing off.

Edited November 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

actually, though I disagree with Gordie's point, I think it's a valid discussion.

Then go ahead and explain it to me. Because I sure don't understand what he's saying that's relevant to the original post.

Here's the post that started is all, for you chuckleheads that like to chime in without even bothering to concern yourself with the topic at hand. I've highlighted the most relevant portion, so you guys don't get tired sounding out all those big words.

EDITED for grammar. not that it matters since no one actually reads the posts before mouthing off.

Two things. 1. Discussions change topic over many many posts. 2. He was explaining his opinion that Datsyuk isn't slumping and is in fact a direct cause for Zetterberg's success. I really fail to see how you would need explaining to see how that relates to the "topic".

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Two things. 1. Discussions change topic over many many posts. 2. He was explaining his opinion that Datsyuk isn't slumping and is in fact a direct cause for Zetterberg's success. I really fail to see how you would need explaining to see how that relates to the "topic".

topics do change over many posts. but its' not like his had evolved to that place. Aside from his many factual errors, he basically flipped out like people were bashing Dats, and they weren't.

He was mostly ranting how Zetterberg is not the greatest in the league.

Do I need to explain how that has little to do with Gordie's suggestion that Datsyuk be moved back to center and Z back to wing to get Dats scoring more goals?

Edited November 10, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[T.Low 1,011]

This is awesome. 13 wins in 16 games, playing brilliant hockey, yet Red Wings fans are passionately muckin' it up in the corners fightin for points. I love it. Keep up the good work boys. Let's Go Red Wings!

(My ass if it ain't Hockeytown! )

[nkuehnl 0]

Here's a question to end this silly debate:

Q: How does moving Datsyuk to center increase his shooting percentage?

A: It doesn't.

[lets go pavel 2]

Dats is averaging a point per game and we're winning so everyone is telling me we're fine. Well, if you look at it, almost all of Datsyuk's numbers are down from the past 2 seasons. He's having the worst season of his career in 3 years whether you base it on stats or projections. And the last time I checked, we were winning last year too. Almost enough to win the presidents trophy. And we're still winning.

no, he's not ... last year after 16 games he had 3 goals and 9 assists ... this year he has 2 and 14 ... while his goals are off by 1, his overall production is up this year over last ... if you project last year after 16 games he would have ended up with about 15 goals and 45 assists, a 60 point season ... he ended up with 27 goals and 60 assists for 87 points, exceeding the projection by 12 goals and 27 points ... there's no reason to think he won't do the same this year ... i don't see cause for concern in his point totals ...

his faceoffs probably are impacted by playing wing, which isn't surprising ... if you don't take as many you don't get in a rhythm ... but again, if he hasn't taken many then a few percentage points only translates to an extra couple facceoffs lost, hardly a huge deal ... the fact that his faceoff % is down because he isn't taking as many should only be cause for concern if whoever is taking them is doing worse ...

none of this is to say i disagree with you that Pavel is probably more comfortable at center, but i don't think he's off to a bad start, and i don't think you'd see a significant difference in his or Hank's performance were they to switch ...

[Earthhuman 8]

You know, I never realized what a bunch of pricks this board is made up of.

People are getting mad just because people have different opinions. No this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the last page and a half.

Welcome to the boards, 134096. Tough luck getting called a dickhead on the first day.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Earthhuman

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Here's a question to end this silly debate:

Q: How does moving Datsyuk to center increase his shooting percentage?

A: It doesn't.

Funny, considering his shooting percentage is historically better as a centerman. Hmm...

You know, I never realized what a bunch of pricks this board is made up of.

People are getting mad just because people have different opinions. No this isn't directed at anyone in particular, just the last page and a half.

Welcome to the boards, 134096. Tough luck getting called a dickhead on the first day.

That's what happens when you bash everyone in the thread for bashing Datsyuk. Especially when nobody was bashing datsyuk to begin with. What should I have called him? "Doctor"??

As for the board being made up of pricks. I'm pretty sure i'm the Chairman of that committee.

no, he's not ... last year after 16 games he had 3 goals and 9 assists ... this year he has 2 and 14 ... while his goals are off by 1, his overall production is up this year over last ... if you project last year after 16 games he would have ended up with about 15 goals and 45 assists, a 60 point season ... he ended up with 27 goals and 60 assists for 87 points, exceeding the projection by 12 goals and 27 points ... there's no reason to think he won't do the same this year ... i don't see cause for concern in his point totals ...

his faceoffs probably are impacted by playing wing, which isn't surprising ... if you don't take as many you don't get in a rhythm ... but again, if he hasn't taken many then a few percentage points only translates to an extra couple facceoffs lost, hardly a huge deal ... the fact that his faceoff % is down because he isn't taking as many should only be cause for concern if whoever is taking them is doing worse ...

none of this is to say i disagree with you that Pavel is probably more comfortable at center, but i don't think he's off to a bad start, and i don't think you'd see a significant difference in his or Hank's performance were they to switch ...

Good points. I forgot how crappy he started last year. I sure hope he finds his groove again. Of course last year he found his groove as a centerman. If he's going to continue to play wing, then he may continue to struggle, hence the creation of this thread.

[ZwedishWing 0]

I think we should put Homer on the C position! Then Z and D can fight it out internally who is playing left and right W.

Well, maybe not, but isn't this discussion kind of silly? The team produces as good as ever, and especially that line. Dats is shooting more than ever (I assume), but he has been a bit unlucky. Anyway, noone sincerely can claim that Dats shooting percentage of 3.6 is due to Z interfering with his shots or something. But as everyone with at least basic statistical skills know, such periods occur in the long run.

Look at the positive side of it instead. We have one of the best lines in the league, despite one player being icecold when it comes to scoring. When Dats shooting percentage goes up (and it certainly will do) the line will get even more points, more assists to Z and Homer and more goals to Dats.

Therefore I actually think this line has more upside coming during the season rather than downside from here. How about that prophecy?

[nkuehnl 0]

You can't refute AND utilize stats from a 16 game spread in the same argument.

Moving from LW to C will do absolutely nothing for shooting percentage. He could play defense and it still wouldn't matter, either the puck goes in or it doesn't.

[T.Low 1,011]

Funny, considering his shooting percentage is historically better as a centerman. Hmm...

That's what happens when you bash everyone in the thread for bashing Datsyuk. Especially when nobody was bashing datsyuk to begin with. What should I have called him? "Doctor"??

As for the board being made up of pricks. I'm pretty sure i'm the Chairman of that committee.

Good points. I forgot how crappy he started last year. I sure hope he finds his groove again. Of course last year he found his groove as a centerman. If he's going to continue to play wing, then he may continue to struggle, hence the creation of this thread.

So, you think the Russian may have a difficult time being a Red wing on the Red Wings...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I'll let Z, Homer, Cleary and Sammy do the goal scoring. Datsyuks best assist is his passing. He ends up with 15-20 goals by seasons end anyways.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'll let Z, Homer, Cleary and Sammy do the goal scoring. Datsyuks best assist is his passing. He ends up with 15-20 goals by seasons end anyways.

Really, hmm.......

Z and Homer should be able to score as we know.

Cleary's on pace to match last season so he should get his 20

Sammy has 2 goals in 13 games

Filpulla has 2 goals in 16 games

Datsyuk has 2 goals in 16 games

and

Lang is gone along with his 19 goals

All i'm saying is if we're counting on Z and Homer to score all our goals, and lets face it, who else can we really count on, then I think we're in trouble.

Look at the rest of the roster that isn't producing. Hell ,Matt Ellis has as many goals as Datsyuk. Dats has scored 30, 28 and 27 goals the past 3 seasons. If he ends up with 15-20 as you say, that's a hell of a drop off.

We can look at Dats assist numbers all day long and say he's got a point per game pace (which is low for him) but if he doesn't start scoring goals. We will have problems. I don't know how many other ways to say it. If we don't get GOALS as well as assists out of Datsyuk, we are in trouble.

Let us not forget, prior to the season starting everyone was saying our most glaring weakness was not having another top 6 scorer on the WIng. Well, our offense is coming from one line basically, Filpulla, Hudler and Franzen have not turned into the 20 goal guys everybody hoped they would and to top it all off, Datsyuk has 2 measley goals.

DYK: For the month of October the Wings played in 6, one-goal games out of 13?

All i'm saying is we're not exactly tearing it up as people would believe. Z is tearing it up and Homer is as well. Our goaltending and D have been superb. Osgood has been ridiculously good. But we're not whipping up on people and part of the reason we've been in so many tight games is that we're not getting enough goal scoring. The first person I look to is Datsyuk becuase he should have more than 2 goals.

[Shockwave180 0]

Only a team that has been consistently dominant during the regular season for fifteen years would have fans complaining in the midst of a nine-game winning streak. Honestly.

We've been hoping Datsyuk will score more goals for five years now. Datsyuk is not primarily a goal-scorer. He's just not. He's a set-up man. And he's one of the best. When will we learn this?

He's John Stockton, Zetterburg is Karl Malone. Or something like that. Man, typing that made me feel old.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Shockwave180

[sibiriak 84]

Actually, the Wings are scoring at a higher rate then last season, 3.23 GPG vs 3.08 last season.

They let in fewer GPG, they won 84.4% of all possibe points compared to 65% or so last year.

Give it up man. The Wings are playing great, and better than the last season average. And noone is sagging or slumping or anything like that. Your original assumption was groundless. Let it go already.

[Wildwings44 5]

Who wants to mess with a good thing, right? I know, but despite how well Datsyuk is playing, its not good that he has only 2 goals in 16 games this season. I don't care if he racks up 90 assists, he's on pace for a 10 goal season.

90 assists sounds good to me. I'm sure no one will complain when we have two guys over 100 points. When is the last time that happened?

Edited November 11, 2007 by Wildwings44

[cap20066 0]

don't know how anyone can say Datsyuk is 'saggin'? Are you even watching the games at all?

IMO he has been THE most dominant offensive player. Z has more points but Dat has been just a beast. I don't know how anyone can say Datsyuk is 'saggin'? Are you even watching the games at all?

Exactly, stats are meaningless. Unless you don't actually watch the wings. (i look at stats for the rest of the league as i obviously can't watch all of the games) But since I never miss a wings game, stats mean absolutely nothing.

If you know hockey and watch the redwings consistently you should realize that datsyuk has been at the least as effective as hank this season.

Dats absolutely dominates the puck, all of the time. Without that prescence on the ice with him, Z wouldn't be having nearly the statistical cumtastic explosion that he is having.

P.S. I origionally hated datsyuk, and since his first season i've said that Hank is my favorite wing and i love the way he plays. But these are just the facts.

Edited November 11, 2007 by cap20066