Babcock seeks scoring balance

[CenterIce 83]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...0345/1128/rss16

The only issue I see with this is that he doesn't play the fourth line much, and the Draper line is more of a defensive line. That basically leaves everything on the second line. I won't bring up the splitting of the top line, since it has been discussed before. However, I think Babcock needs to roll four lines more, at minimum to rest the other lines.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

We've had too many disappointments this year when it comes to scoring. Hudler, Franzen, and Fillpulla haven't put up the numbers that many people thought they would. I wasn't one of those delusional LGW members that predicted these guys to put up huge numbers, but I thought they'd do better than this. Likewise, we're finding out more and more that Kronwall and Lebda don't have the kind of shot that can create goals from the blueline. We only have Rafalski and Lidstrom to rely on for that. Also, our 3rd and 4th lines are playing hard, but if we're counting on them for scoring, then we're in big trouble. However, despite all the inconsistency, I'm glad where we're at overall, but I'd still like to see someone added at the deadline to boost this team's offense.

[Learn2LuvIt 246]

IMO...We have some veterans on other lines (Malts and Drapes in particular) who need to foucus more on offense. When Malts scores, it's almost as if it happened on accident. Both of these guys have the skills to contribute offensively. Having them stictly for a defensive-shut down roles is good, but not utilizing there talents (Drapes = speed, Malts =grit around the net) to maximum advantage. Are these guys defensmen or forwards??

Just an observation as of late.... I'v noticed that when Drapes is on the ice...it's almost like the other team goes into "ok, it's our turn to see if we can get the puck by Draper and in deep to play some offense" mode. When players or a compelte line are not even a remote threat to attempt to score and simply looking to put back-checking/nuetral zone pressure on, it's always going to be a wash...(unless the other team scores).

A question my brother posed to me fueled some good discussion/debate: If you were the coach for a bad/sub-par team in the leauge and picked up Drapes or Malts in a trade.....how would you use them? After many attempts to get my arms around this question, I guess my answer was was....not how the Wings are using them. But saying the Wings have too much offensive talent to find bigger offensive roles for these guys is absurd.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Learn2LuvIt

[Dabura 12,232]

He's trying to bleed a stone; our forward unit lacks the kind of offensive potential he's looking for, and no amount of moving Hank and Dats around is going to change that.

Help needs to be brought in from outside.

IMO...We have some veterans on other lines (Malts and Drapes in particular) who need to foucus more on offense.

They're playing their respective roles just fine, and neither of those roles entails much goal-scoring.

Honestly, if it's gotten to the point where people are looking to Draper and Maltby for numbers, you know there's a problem with the forward corps.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Dabura

[Airborn 0]

I'd like to see Flip and Huds given more prominent roles, as I believe they could provide a solid second scoring line.

I'd also rather see the Z-Dats-Homer line left together.

[Grittzkey 1]

He wants scoring balance yet every game he sticks in Flip Sammy Franzen Hudler.. Switch it up with players who dont get those kinda minutes, anyone from the 3-4 line.. sure its far fetched to work, but your never going to know until you try. Draper,Cleary,Maltby are viable options to throw up with Flipper and Sammy.

Kopecky Drake Hudler are options also

Kopecky was a goal scorer in WHL and AHL. Maybe his game can translate if you put him on a line that is offensive based instead of a line that gets 5 minutes and has a slim opp to get anything going.

Drake Never was a goal scorer or a play maker, but year after year he has put up points, and has always been a leader. Instead of having Flipper and Hudler trying to make a name for themselves with a shot happy sammy, Put drake*ordraper* up there so they have a vet they can lean on.

i know im going to get that retard response for believing in Kopecky and Drake to be productive, but i can honestly see Kopecky being a top 6 forward for us.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Filpula and Franzen are to blame really. ZDH, Sammy, Cleary and Hudler have all given us good scoring. Filpula has looked out of place in alot of games this year, and Franzens been injured.

[Feldmarschall 9]

Instead of having Flipper and Hudler trying to make a name for themselves with a shot happy sammy, Put drake*ordraper* up there so they have a vet they can lean on..

Drapes is just as shot-happy as Sammy. Only difference is that he winds it up and Sammy just wrists it. As for Drake... well, who knows? Seems he so rarely has the puck, I've got no idea what his tendencies are.

[FinRedWing 172]

Filpula and Franzen are to blame really. ZDH, Sammy, Cleary and Hudler have all given us good scoring. Filpula has looked out of place in alot of games this year, and Franzens been injured.

Valtteri's a good talent,he will bounce back and he'll get a multi-year extension.

I wonder, does Aussie Wing love Filppula more than you hate him?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

He wants scoring balance yet every game he sticks in Flip Sammy Franzen Hudler.. Switch it up with players who dont get those kinda minutes, anyone from the 3-4 line.. sure its far fetched to work, but your never going to know until you try. Draper,Cleary,Maltby are viable options to throw up with Flipper and Sammy.

Kopecky Drake Hudler are options also

Kopecky was a goal scorer in WHL and AHL. Maybe his game can translate if you put him on a line that is offensive based instead of a line that gets 5 minutes and has a slim opp to get anything going.

Drake Never was a goal scorer or a play maker, but year after year he has put up points, and has always been a leader. Instead of having Flipper and Hudler trying to make a name for themselves with a shot happy sammy, Put drake*ordraper* up there so they have a vet they can lean on.

i know im going to get that retard response for believing in Kopecky and Drake to be productive, but i can honestly see Kopecky being a top 6 forward for us.

I agree you'll probably get flack for that, but at this point why not try it? Throwing Kopecky up on the second line with Dats or Z, I don't see how much worse he could do than the other guys.

I think there's a low percentage of it working out, but if he could use his size, maybe playing with some talent will ignite his scoring touch.

(yes, I know I'm dreaming)

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Valtteri's a good talent,he will bounce back and he'll get a multi-year extension.

I wonder, does Aussie Wing love Filppula more than you hate him?

I never said I hated him, because I dont. The fact is he hasent played up to his potential this season.

[FinRedWing 172]

I never said I hated him, because I dont. The fact is he hasent played up to his potential this season.

I can agree with that.

But "decent scorers" Sammy & Hudler have 12 points,Filppula has 8.

So he has potential to blow them away in points?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I can agree with that.

But "decent scorers" Sammy & Hudler have 12 points,Filppula has 8.

So he has potential to blow them away in points?

I see no reason why he couldnt blow them away, not like Samuelson or Hudler are very consitent either.

[Grittzkey 1]

Flipper is a Play Maker, he will dish you out the passes needed to get others to score.. but Not having a sniper on the 3rd line realy sucks for flipper. he is working with a shot happy sammy and a still proving himself sniper in hudler.

[Learn2LuvIt 246]

our forward unit lacks the kind of offensive potential he's looking for

Help needs to be brought in from outside.

They're playing their respective roles just fine, and neither of those roles entails much goal-scoring.

Honestly, if it's gotten to the point where people are looking to Draper and Maltby for numbers, you know there's a problem with the forward corps.

Disconnect....yeah I thought that was the point we are trying to make. There is a problem with our forward corps....and I think the basis for some of these challenges is that we are asking two veteran forwards to play roles that are not offensive minded and therefore two of our roster spots/minutes (and payroll) are going to guys who don't score. IMO...we here in Detroit hype these two (esp. Malts) as such great role players..."hard to play against"/"gritty "/"heart and soul guys"/"they bring it every night"/ "veteran guys who have rings"/"core guys"/"team guys"/"they play in the dirty spots"/"they bring the intangibles" (my favorite)/etc.... If they're not a defensemen, and they're not scoring or fighting....I guess I wonder what they are doing.

Not trying to bag on Drapes and Malts....I think Babs has a lot to do with this....we just need more out of them besides 'intagibles".

[RedWings Gone Wild 6]

I swear, every time Babs breaks up Zett, Homer, and Datsyuk they all simultaniously forget how to score. Leave em together, just throw around a little extra ice time to the other lines and see which one makes the most of it.

[Hank 0]

We've had too many disappointments this year when it comes to scoring. Hudler, Franzen, and Fillpulla haven't put up the numbers that many people thought they would. I wasn't one of those delusional LGW members that predicted these guys to put up huge numbers, but I thought they'd do better than this. Likewise, we're finding out more and more that Kronwall and Lebda don't have the kind of shot that can create goals from the blueline. We only have Rafalski and Lidstrom to rely on for that. Also, our 3rd and 4th lines are playing hard, but if we're counting on them for scoring, then we're in big trouble. However, despite all the inconsistency, I'm glad where we're at overall, but I'd still like to see someone added at the deadline to boost this team's offense.

Good post. I'm on the same side as you as I felt that Hudler would have more points at this point but I didn't expect him to net 30. Filpulla on the other hand is someone I felt wasn't ready for 2nd line duty. He'll get there in another season or two, but he's better suited as a 3rd line center. Nobody should have expected a 65+ point season from him. He'll have had a good year if he gets anything over 40.

If Babs ever does split up Zetts I can see Hudler netting 25 goals still. But I hope the Wings go out and get a big scorer at the deadline. Glen Murray might be nice.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Hank

[Dabura 12,232]

If they're not a defensemen, and they're not scoring or fighting....I guess I wonder what they are doing.

Seriously?

Draper is a top-notch two-way grinder who can always be counted on in the faceoff circle, on the penalty kill, on the backcheck, along the boards in the offensive zone, and in the locker room. Maltby's a savvy agitator who does his job as well as anyone in the league and plays a solid two-way game.

They're not here to score or fight, and they shouldn't be expected to pick up the second line's slack in the scoring department, nor should someone like Kopecky or Drake.

Hey, Kenny, guess what: You're a general manager, not a masochist. No one's impressed by this oh-so-valiant attempt to "stick with the young guys" and "tough it out."

There's this thing called a trade. Do it.

Edited November 26, 2007 by Dabura

[Echolalia 2,961]

As bad as it is to have to rely on only one line for all your scoring (especially with all the hype surrounding much of the rest of our team), I am really really comfortable with our position. Unless Bettman changes the schedule midseason and has us playing central teams for the rest of the year, its safe to say we'll make the playoffs, or, more importantly for my argument, the trade deadline. We have plenty of money to afford a top line scorer for our second line, even if he only stays with us for the rest of the year. If we can get a top-notch player at the deadline (and we really have very few things keeping us from doing so), we can use this person as a catalyst for scoring on our second line, and hopefully (expectedly), the rest of the second line will pick up their scoring due to the Good Players Make Less Good Players Better Law.

Of course thats not to say that we don't have a problem with our scoring, but I'm looking at it as a temporary problem at worst, which, regardless, should be solved by the deadline.

[Learn2LuvIt 246]

Seriously?

Draper is a top-notch two-way grinder who can always be counted on in the faceoff circle, on the penalty kill, on the backcheck, along the boards in the offensive zone, and in the locker room. Maltby's a savvy agitator who does his job as well as anyone in the league and plays a solid two-way game.

They're not here to score or fight, and they shouldn't be expected to pick up the second line's slack in the scoring department, nor should someone like Kopecky or Drake.

Seriously...Yes.

I'll give you Drapes in the face-off circle...one of the best. Besides that, I'd like to see more offense from him...peroid. Being a "locker room guy" Can you tell me what that actually means? Very cliche. If you play in the NHL and need someone to give "rah-rah" speeches, set work ethic examples, or show you how to work-out...than I'm not sure you belong playing with the best palyers in the world anway Player evaluations should only take into consideration 'on ice" activities. WTF-"He is great at getting to the rink on-time-it's amazing...he never gets losts or forgets what time the game starts...in addition. he consistently knows his teammates names and is very generous sharing his tolietries"????

Maltby-"A savvy agitator". WOW...if I could make the money he's making for getting my face glove-washed behind the net and not ever having to get into an actual fight OR contribute offensively....where do I sign up. The past two seasons I've gotten the impression that he is kind of ignored anymore by other teams cause players know his game, and know he'll never drop the gloves. Malts has lost a bit of his edge and your description of him is very generous..a bit sentimental.

I do see your points and respect them. I really like these guys a lot, and they've meant a lot to our team over the years....My only point thus far has been we need more offense from these guys...I don't care how sentimental fans can get from our Cup days. In the past we have had the scoring we needed to afford the luxury of having these two play this role so prominantly....after the CBA those days are gone. Everyone has to contribute on the score sheet to win consistentley.

[evil204 4]

It seems I say this in every post, but Babcock is an idiot. I understand that he wants scoring balance, but he's tried splitting up Datsyuk and Zetterberg a million times and it NEVER works. They always end up back together because there's no scoring with them on separate lines. Those two players are just too good together to split up. I'll take the best line in hockey over 2 average lines.

If Babcock wants secondary scoring, maybe he should try keeping the lines together for once and let them develop some chemistry. It seems like he switches up the lines practically every shift. And for god's sake, keep Samuelsson out of the top 6. Filppula works his butt off with the puck and Sammy just throws a weak shot right into the goalie's chest from 50 feet away. I wouldn't mind him if he was a depth forward, but Babcock is apparently intent on having him on the top 2 lines and the power play.

[WingNut199 0]

I never said I hated him, because I dont. The fact is he hasent played up to his potential this season.

He's still very young and is already a great two-way player. The goals will come eventually, although it might not be this year... but I see your point all the same, a lot of us here might have been expecting too much when thought he would be hitting 20 goal heights

[Grittzkey 1]

Draper has great face off ability,skating ability. good two way player. and is just a good center in general. but he plays with Maltby and cleary, He isn t meant to be a point getting, but i think if you put him on a line with Sammy and Flipper, or Sammy and Hudler you would find a whole new Draper.

As much as i want a trade for a top6 forward, i dont want it at the same time, i am a huge rex fan. and if we got a top6, either flipper or/and hudler would be the odd man out. and there potenial outcome is to great to risk. Only players i'am willing to trade for a top 6 are Franzen,Sammuelson,Kopecky,Ellis.. and 2 of them dont have much value at all. So If we cant deal Franz,Sammy then id just assume stay put and tough it out. try and push Flipper and Hudler to the next level.

[CenterIce 83]

How about the following lines:

Franzen - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Kopecky - Zetterberg - Samuelsson

Hudler - Filppula - Cleary

Maltby - Draper - Downey

You have a mix of grit, playmaking, and scoring on each line, and like I said in my orignal post, roll all four lines regularly.

[Grittzkey 1]

At the beggining of the season i was all for splitting up ZDH, after watching how they play split up.. i relized that was dumb. Something Needs to be done with the Lines though..

Zorro - Hudini - Homer

Rex - Flipper - Cleary

Franzen - Draper - Samuelson

Drake - Maltby - Downey

--

1st Line = Greatness

2nd Line = pp2 like works great, keep it together.

3rd Line = Franen is at best a 3rd liner, Drapers home, Sammy Can be as shot happy as he wants to be on this line.

4th Line - No Offence, Pure Grinding.