enough is ENUFF! Crosby

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

And there is also some that don't think he was all that... and still watch! Raises hand!

Actually i did learn a bit how to straddle the blue line and await the other players to get me the puck... I learned how to ***** at the refs when someone came with it 30feet of me... I learned a lot about how to play from watching him

Go Mario!

#66 >> #99 (by a long shot!)

Not all that??

I hated Gretzky when he was playing and he still bugs me as a coach, but he lacked the physical gifts that Lemeiux had (who was 6'4" and 230 lbs) and still dominated the game. Gretzky wasn't big, wasn't particularly fast, didn't have a wicked slap or wristshot. He just had a superior sense and understanding of hockey.

He owns just about every hockey record there is.

I completely understand not liking the guy, but it doesn't diminish what he did as a player.

[TRD604 8]

Ya, there was soo much hype when he was here in vancouver. I could careless that he was here. Im sure it would have been cool to see him play. All i care about is the redwings...

[Tiribulus 0]

<<< How old are you? I only ask because maybe you missed some of this history due to not being old enough to recall it. >>>

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

[BeeRYCE 2]

People need to learn to deal with it. I hated him first year he was around, but even then, he was bound to be the next generational player. Another Howe, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr. He will probably end his career as one of the best to play the game and you need to learn to deal with it!

[Echolalia 2,961]

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

This and your previous post are some of the most solid I've seen lately.

Couldn't agree more

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

If people don't like hockey, then ultimately you're right, they're not going to watch it no matter how much you hype Crosby.

But I think a more appropriate analogy is for people who've never tried broccoli, if they keep hearing about some great new broccoli that's the best to come along in decades, they might just try it and discover they like it.

I do agree however that the NHL has to stay true to its core audience and not cheapen the game to try and appeal to non-fans with some cheap stunt like shootouts, for example.

EDIT: excessive use of commas.

Edited December 11, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[imisssergei 0]

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

I think you are missing something. Remember when the Wings had Scotty behind the bench, the Russian 5, Stevie, and Shanny? It was the trendy thing to go to a Wings game.

What's my point? People will, generally speaking, follow the crowd. If you can make it 'cool' to attend a hockey game, even people who don't like hockey will go. That is what needs to happen. Hockey needs to be the trendy thing to do again.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

I understand the opinion that no amount of Crosby might impact the sport positively so far as making it more popular like Baseball or Football.

However, if you aren't going to hype Sydney Crosby, who the heck are you going to hype?

Considering his age and accomplishments, he's the best player around. Nobody his age is doing or will do what he's done. There's a reason why Wayne put up numbers that put Kurri, Coffey and even Messier to shame. Wayne was in a class all by himself, like Mario. Well, for as good as Kovalchuk or Iginla or Zetterberg are, Sidney is in a class all by himself. He's followed the same high profile blueprint Wayne did since he was old enough to lace them up.

My point is hyping Crosby may annoy some diehard hockey fans. But you aren't going to not watch hockey because of Crosby are you? The Crosby hype can only have a positive effect so far as bringing in more fans. Sure, it might not have an impact. But when we can safely assume there is no negative impact and only the potential for positive gain, why wouldn't you hype a player like Crosby?

Crosby-mania can only be good for hockey. If it annoys some of us true hockey fans I think we need to get over it. There's a greater plan at work here and IMO, if you truly love the game you want to see it flourish and become more popular. Just becuase it hasn't worked in the past doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying. And frankly, Sid gives you the best shot and bringing hockey to more people.

[Yzerfan1999 81]

I understand the opinion that no amount of Crosby might impact the sport positively so far as making it more popular like Baseball or Football.

However, if you aren't going to hype Sydney Crosby, who the heck are you going to hype?

Considering his age and accomplishments, he's the best player around. Nobody his age is doing or will do what he's done. There's a reason why Wayne put up numbers that put Kurri, Coffey and even Messier to shame. Wayne was in a class all by himself, like Mario. Well, for as good as Kovalchuk or Iginla or Zetterberg are, Sidney is in a class all by himself. He's followed the same high profile blueprint Wayne did since he was old enough to lace them up.

My point is hyping Crosby may annoy some diehard hockey fans. But you aren't going to not watch hockey because of Crosby are you? The Crosby hype can only have a positive effect so far as bringing in more fans. Sure, it might not have an impact. But when we can safely assume there is no negative impact and only the potential for positive gain, why wouldn't you hype a player like Crosby?

Crosby-mania can only be good for hockey. If it annoys some of us true hockey fans I think we need to get over it. There's a greater plan at work here and IMO, if you truly love the game you want to see it flourish and become more popular. Just becuase it hasn't worked in the past doesn't mean you shouldn't keep trying. And frankly, Sid gives you the best shot and bringing hockey to more people.

Exactly.

[theman19 47]

okay, someone explain this to me.

The penguins lose 2-8, Crosby has two assists in the terrible preformance by his team. Crosby is the third star of the game. Err what?

[T.Low 1,011]

OK, I just wanted to take this opportunity to report that I am now officially tired of hearing about Sydney Crosby

I like the youngster a lot, but I agree the media hype can be tiresome. Personally, I don't care if the game gets more ppular or not. Come to think of it, I kind of like the exclusivity of the game. Marketing smarketing, the game should have the exact amount of fans that love the game for the game, and not a single one more.

[Tiribulus 0]

As soon as I get a chance I will give a proper response to the very reasoned statements here. I am buried in work trying to get this computer repair business going. I'm not ignoring you guys.

[b.shanafan14 733]

This is a fair question that deserves a fair answer. I'm 14 years older than you, but spent the entire 80's and early 90's in circumstances that precluded my following hockey (long story and no I wasn't in jail) so I did miss most of Gretzky's career. My point remains though. Football has been wildly popular and profitable forever because people love football. A temporary boost in some markets spurred by a superstar has done nothing to make hockey itself more palatable to non fans. Rule changes, ice layout changes, more fighting, less fighting, more scoring, less scoring etc. all misses the point that for some bizarre reason the populous at large just doesn't "get" what for me is the most unspeakably exciting sport in history. It ain't even close. Keep on hyping Crosby then. Maybe a long series of temporary boosts just to keep the sport alive is the best we can hope for. It seems that many of us keep thinking that if we can just package it right it'll catch on. In my opinion this way of thinking has proven itself false. Offering "super" broccoli to people who just don't like broccoli won't make them like it.

I definately agree. Since the lockout, Bettman and the powers-that-be have forced this promotional movement to make the NHL appeal to the U.S. populace as a whole. This is all well and good in theory, but its the same thing with MLS (the soccer big-leagues). If a guy like me says "I don't like soccer, don't feel like trying to watch soccer, who gives a s***", this whole David Beckham coming to the U.S. to play thing seems like a joke, like chicks in Indy cars, or Annika Sorensten in the PGA. Its seen as good press and for the most part it is, but as far as moving a large majority of uninterested Americans to look in their TV guide for the next race, golf tourny, or soccer match I think its a bit naive to believe it actually works.

Its the same with the Crosby thing. If the NHL is going to take off better in the states, they have to start by getting more airtime on the big networks and letting people stumble into hockey. Telling people "hey, we know you don't really like hockey, maybe have never really given it a shot, but two thursdays from now there is this young guy Crosby playing on Versus, it used to be the Outdoor Life Network, maybe you have it, maybe you don't, anyways the point is he is really good and young too, check him out." It may draw a small amount of fans to the game temporarily, but in my opinion it hurts the sport as a whole.

While they try and try to appeal to what they think people who don't like hockey will like, they damage the game and those of us who love to watch it. This Crosby over-exposure thing is in the same spirit. As a person who is already a diehard fan of hockey, its basically like the T.O. stuff in the NFL. I'm not comparing them on a level of personality, cause god knows I hate T.O., but on the over-exposure. Going on TSN.ca or NHL.com or turning on Versus is like every SportsCenter I have watched in the last two years. Daily T.O. update, what did he do? Nothing. He is just still alive, doing sit ups in his driveway with press there, just thought you should know.

What this over-exposure comes across as to someone like me who enjoys hockey without a gun to my head, is the equivalent of being force fed something whether I like it or not. We, the hockey fans, the only ones really watching have to put up with shameless over promotion so that some guy in Nashville will realize they actually have a hockey team. Its a bastardization of the sport and the NHL to pool media coverage around one individual who in the big picture isn't overwhelmingly important to the game, and certainly not bigger than it. I don't hold this against Crosby, but I think it only works to turn some hockey fans away from him. Spread the NHL news beyond Crosby, there are plenty of other great players out there............ I think I blacked out..... where am I?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

okay, someone explain this to me.

The penguins lose 2-8, Crosby has two assists in the terrible preformance by his team. Crosby is the third star of the game. Err what?

They usually try to pick at least one star from the other team, even if it's a token performance. Crosby assisted on both the Pens goals. He was the only player on the Pens who scored two points.

Who should they have picked?

[jagr68 0]

Wow. lot of opinions on this. Like someone else has already said, the things he did and is doing at his age is incredible.

Someone made a good point about Selanne's rookie year, his age, and how other players were doing just as good, but some much better. Like Mario, 160pts in 60 games. Good for 2.66 points a game. That would have been good for 218pts had he played the whole season. That was about 10 years after Gretzky's 215. That is more impressive.

Like in todays NHL. I would say a player getting 120pts today is like a guy scoring 150 or 160 over 10-15 years ago. The game just changed so much. Goalies are better, players are better, defensive systems are better and coaching is better.

I never was a Gretzky fan either, and I guess I see why some people dislike Sid. The things I would hear about Gretzky, how these plays that he does are so incredible, yet you can watch any given night and you see other players do the same thing. Granted, not all of his plays were average, but it felt like it watching and hearing the announcers talk about him so much. To me, I never really saw him do anything impressive. He was a good cherry picker and he was gifted to almost always having a great team around him. That's what Mario never had early in his career. To me, Mario scoring 199pts on a horrible team other than Paul Coffey, was more impressive than Gretzky scoring 215 on a all star team in Edmonton. Did he change the game? Did he set records that probably won't be broken? Yes. More importantly, he also helped us coin a term for our beer leagues. Anytime one of us scores a garbage goal, or a goal that took no skill whatsoever, we yell out, "Gretzky goal!".

Far as Crosby, he doesn't really have a great team around him. Sure, Malkin. They no longer play on the same line, and in his two seasons since he left Russia, they have not played very many games together. When they do, they do put up points, but they lack secondary scoring. People say Crosby isn't much or any better than Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Both of those players are great. You seperate them, they will still produce, but will they put up the numbers they are now? Of course not. Sid doesn't have a Zetterberg. He had limited games with Malkin, and very few games with Mario. And come on Mario was so injury plagued he couldn't finish two months or so. His best linemates in his first couple years have been consistantly been Ryan Malone, Colby Armstrong, Mark Recchi, Erik Christensen, and Peter Sykora. The way I see it, for him to score 102 his rookie year, 120pts last year and win a Art Ross, be 2nd in the league right now playing with the players he plays with consistantly, that is worth the hype alone.

The more I watch Sid. The less I see a young Gretzky. The ONLY thing they have in common is they both have great vision. The way Sid plays the game is nothing like Wayne. First, Gretzky couldn't take a hit. One, it wasn't allowed. You just weren't allowed to hit him. And if you did, you'd pay for it. it's said he was never the same after getting hammered by somebody on Toronto or Vancouver, can't remember. Hopefully one day they will get rid of the instigator rule. You see Sidney go in to corners, he'll throw a hit, he takes a beating. He has guys draped on him. The guy has incredible leg strength. He is so tough, maybe the toughest. People say he doesn't fight. And he doesn't. So what. I'd say he is more like a Forsberg than a Gretzky.

Look at the top players in the league now. Lecavalier plays with St. Louis almost all of the time, and log more ice time, Zetterberg and Datsyuk play on a regular line almost all the time, and Alfreddson plays with Spezza and Heatley. Kovalchuk plays on a line with Hossa.

Sidney has Ryan Malone? Sykoya played in Edmonton last year and led his team with 22 goals? Scotty Bowman was on a radio show a few days ago and said that if the Pens could pick up a top forward to play with Sidney, he could score 150pts or more. Hopefully in the offseason they do get a guy that can play at Sid's level. I think if anybody has played hockey, really at any level will notice they get more scoring chances, and pick up more points when you play with a talented player.

So all these people that are sick of hearing about Sid now. If he ever gets that player, or even a top line, you'll be hearing about him even more. He'll score 150 or more for years to come. If he stays injury free, of course.

[Wings_Fan_In_Exile 3]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one sick of the media over-hyping Crosby. Yeah he's an amazing talent. But they take it overboard. There are a lot of marketable players in the league, I wish they'd spend a little more time showing that the NHL has more to offer than Sid.