Kronwall And 1st Round Pick For Sundin?

[chrisdetroit 189]

I think it would just be better if we just kick all the players in the nuts.

Vary BAD IDEA

It's a three way lost. Mats is done, we lose the first pick and Kronwall. Nope Next idea.

Well said

[Bren4Wings 0]

Its a dream trade to help the Leafs. The same thing with Bergers claim recently. Berger claimed it would take 2 out of 3 in Hudler/Fils/Franzen along with a top pick. IF the Leafs are asking for either scenario we are not going to see Sundin in the winged wheel, its as plain as that.

Does anyone remember that Holland for yrs said no to deals that involved Pavel, Hank and Krons --stating they were off limits. Why on earth would he change his mind on Krons now that he is really coming into his own? I also think that Holland may have shifted Fils under that category as well, unless there is something we don't know about. What's being said about Fils by people in the organization was the same thing we heard in regards to Hank and Pavel a few yrs ago.

Just because some GMs are/were desperate enough to make deals like the Thrashers and Preds last yr, doesn't mean Holland is. Ohh speaking of which, how did those deals work out anyways? Yeah, crash and burn. It was noticed and won't be forgotten. No GM wants to put themselves in that type of situation.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I was watching the TSN telecast of Montreal making Boston their ***** when I heard the intermission crew talking about what teams would have to give up to get Sundin. As much as I love Kronwall I think I would pull the trigger if this is what it took to get him.

No f#$@ing way. Lids has 2 years left and Cheli could retire anytime. If we lose Kronwall also, we are done.

All this for a 38 year old that may just be a rental.

You have GOT to be kidding.

[norrisnick 1]

Holland is looking to ADD to our defense. Not subtract.

Quincey/Meech and a 2nd for Kubina is far more likely if we're dealing with the Leafs.

[eva unit zero 271]

Holland is looking to ADD to our defense. Not subtract.

Quincey/Meech and a 2nd for Kubina is far more likely if we're dealing with the Leafs.

I would rather it be for Gill. Kubina is better, but costs more than twice as much per year and for longer. Gill is off the books after next season, which basicallty uses his cap hit to save some space for Z's deal. Gill would be an upgrade over Lilja in every important respect, and would provide good depth for our run this spring.

[norrisnick 1]

I would rather it be for Gill. Kubina is better, but costs more than twice as much per year and for longer. Gill is off the books after next season, which basicallty uses his cap hit to save some space for Z's deal. Gill would be an upgrade over Lilja in every important respect, and would provide good depth for our run this spring.

Hal wouldn't be an upgrade over Lilly in any meaningful way.

Kubina being signed for 2 more years isn't necessarily a bad thing. He'd be a great complement to our top 3 of Nick, Nik, and Raf. Expensive? Yes, but he's been a #1/1A on a cup winner before. Has great physical tools. He's nasty in front of the net. Would take Sammy off the PP point forever, as he'd be a righty for the 2nd unit. Etc... And $5M wouldn't hamper a new deal for Z. Dom's $4M cap hit is coming off the books. Osgood and Howard will be cheap for the forseeable future. Cleary and Fil might get pricy, but we'll see.

I just think picking up a guy that would bump Lilly down to depth status would be preferable than adding depth behind Lilly, which is what Gill would be.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Holland is looking to ADD to our defense. Not subtract.

Quincey/Meech and a 2nd for Kubina is far more likely if we're dealing with the Leafs.

Pass. Kubina has been one of the worst defenceman for his salary in the last couple years. He isnt the same player who played for Tampa.

I'd rather have McCabe, but the best bet, stay away from all the Leafs defenceman.

[IceMunkee 15]

I don't think Sundin will even be shopped. He has been qouted as not wanting to be traded. I will take Antropov though. He is young and in a slump which should lower his value

[RedFX 48]

Nothing but draft picks for Sundin. Giving up a player like Kronwall just isn't worth an aging veteran who has all but guaranteed he will be back with Toronto next year. If this turns out to be a bust, this can turn out to be one of the worst trades in NHL history.

[norrisnick 1]

Pass. Kubina has been one of the worst defenceman for his salary in the last couple years. He isnt the same player who played for Tampa.

I'd rather have McCabe, but the best bet, stay away from all the Leafs defenceman.

Special Ed down in Phoenix is probably the only defenseman I wouldn't take ahead of McCabe. Kubina's money was bad when he signed it, but not anymore when you've got Jay McKees making $4M/yr and Brent Sopels and Hal Gills at $2M+. Kubina has managed to maintain a positive +/- on some horrificly inept Leaf teams. And it's not like he's hiding either. He's playing over 24 minutes a night.

And it's not so much the Leafs' defensemen (though McCabe and Gill are pretty iffy) as their complete lack of a defensive system. Kubina would be amazing on the other side of one of our Nicks.

[eva unit zero 271]

Hal wouldn't be an upgrade over Lilly in any meaningful way.

Kubina being signed for 2 more years isn't necessarily a bad thing. He'd be a great complement to our top 3 of Nick, Nik, and Raf. Expensive? Yes, but he's been a #1/1A on a cup winner before. Has great physical tools. He's nasty in front of the net. Would take Sammy off the PP point forever, as he'd be a righty for the 2nd unit. Etc... And $5M wouldn't hamper a new deal for Z. Dom's $4M cap hit is coming off the books. Osgood and Howard will be cheap for the forseeable future. Cleary and Fil might get pricy, but we'll see.

I just think picking up a guy that would bump Lilly down to depth status would be preferable than adding depth behind Lilly, which is what Gill would be.

I agree that Kubina would be a much better addition to the team as a player. I just don'know if we can actually fit his salary under the cap the next few years. We'll gain 3m from goaltending changes, and currently have about 4m free not including the bonus cushion. However, Zetterberg will be seeing a raise of about 5-6 million per year. The only way we can fit Kubina is if Lilja is not retained, and if the cap increases enough to cover the additional million left on Kubina's salary plus raises for Cleary, Flip, Hudler, and Franzen AND wiggle room...which means a Cap of at least 54m in two seasons. Which is possible, but not guaranteed.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Kubina might be a nice addition to our squad, but I think Holland may be able to make better use of that $5 million per year salary.

I'd rather spend $5 million on Cory Cross than spend it on that beanbag Kubina.

[FinRedWing 172]

I'd rather spend $5 million on Cory Cross than spend it on that beanbag Kubina.

I wonder if Andy Delmore is still available?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I wonder if Andy Delmore is still available?

I don't know, but supposedly he has a hard right-handed shot from the point, thus he's a scoring defenseman.

[Nev 1,085]

If we're giving up top picks, top players and top prospects I want it to be the kind of player we need like Blake or Foote, NOT another skilled European, however good.

[ashenhigh 9]

If we're giving up top picks, top players and top prospects I want it to be the kind of player we need like Blake or Foote, NOT another skilled European, however good.

foote would be a dream.

[norrisnick 1]

If we're giving up top picks, top players and top prospects I want it to be the kind of player we need like Blake or Foote, NOT another skilled European, however good.

Contrary to what you might infer from birthplaces, Kubina is essentially Rob Blake but younger. He doesn't use his ass quite as much checking but they play fairly similar aggressive styles. Nasty in front of the net, decent outlet passes, and a bomb from the point.

[Dabura 12,232]

Kubina has a good decade on Blake, while, like Nick said, playing essentially the same game as Blake.

He'd be great.

Edited January 24, 2008 by Dabura

[skacore 2]

Kubina doesn't bring the physical game and intimdation factor that Blake does.... not even close

[Turkey 0]

Does Blake still bring that?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Does Blake still bring that?

No. For some reason because he's Canadian and he was once a great open ice hitter, there's a perception going around that Blake is some great physical D-man. It's simply not true. Yeah he's more physical than Lebda or Rafalski, but is that really saying much? Blake has no intimidation factor left, because I don't think that when teams play the Kings they're afraid of either Blake's physicality or his shot from the point.

[skacore 2]

Blake may not be the great physical D-man he once was but he is still one of the most physical D in the league... I'd like to say more than anyone on our team but Lilja has been playing great lately. And yeah Blake still intimidates players... trust me if you're going down his side of the ice, you make sure you keep your head up

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

No. For some reason because he's Canadian and he was once a great open ice hitter, there's a perception going around that Blake is some great physical D-man. It's simply not true. Yeah he's more physical than Lebda or Rafalski, but is that really saying much? Blake has no intimidation factor left, because I don't think that when teams play the Kings they're afraid of either Blake's physicality or his shot from the point.

He isnt what he used to be, but he would be by far the most physical defenceman on our team if he came.

To make the comparision to Kubina here, I dont think when teams play the Leafs there afraid of Kubina's "physicality" or shot.

I dont know how much of the Leafs some of you watch, but over the past 2 years I've seen a whole lot of it, Kubina is not some mean defenceman, he gives a nice cross check and a facewash, but most people on here disliked Schnieder because those were things he did, but he isnt considered physical but Kubina is, ok. (This isnt towards you GMR, just the people that would want Kubina.) Plus, I dont want to be the team that makes the Leafs better, and we'd certainly make there fans happy.

[imisssergei 0]

If we're giving up top picks, top players and top prospects I want it to be the kind of player we need like Blake or Foote, NOT another skilled European, however good.

That is unbelievably racist. I can't fathom how one's nationality has anything to do with his ability to play hockey.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Just because some GMs are/were desperate enough to make deals like the Thrashers and Preds last yr, doesn't mean Holland is. Ohh speaking of which, how did those deals work out anyways? Yeah, crash and burn. It was noticed and won't be forgotten. No GM wants to put themselves in that type of situation.

I think you're wrong about that last part. There's always GM's who need to either make the playoffs or go deep to keep their jobs and if giving up a good portion of future to get Mats Sundin will help them get another contract, then there are some that will do it.

GM's remember the Keith Tkachuk's and the Ryan Smyth's that didn't work, but they also remember the Mark Recchi's and Doug Weight's that did.

Besides, there's about five or six teams behind the Wings in the West that probably figure they'll need Mats to beat Detroit, so they'd probably take a run at him, too.

Mats is one of the most clutch players to play the game (3rd all-time in game winners with 93, 1st all-time in overtime goals) and teams salivate over players like that around playoff time.

Edited January 25, 2008 by MacK_Attack