Hossa Sweepstakes down to four teams?

[rick zombo 3,739]

How long of a term are you talking?

Ideally, he would sign for 5 or 6 years.

Does this sound reasonable?

The way I see it, in 3-4 years, if Flip and Huds mature into decent 2nd liners like they are supposed to they will, combined, make as much as Hossa. So the decision is, do you want depth, or do you want one "lights out" sniper?

Also, here's a question for everyone:

If Detroit doesn't get a pure goal scorer like Hossa through a trade, who do you see within the organization filling that void?

I say, while Detroit has good prospects, none of them have that kind of pure scoring ability. I pesonally would like to see someone like that in Detroit before Lidstrom retires.

edit:spelling

Edited February 21, 2008 by rick zombo

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Ideally, he would sign for 5 or 6 years.

Does this sound reasonable?

The way I see it, in 3-4 years, if Flip and Huds mature into decent 2nd liners like they are supposed to they will, combined, make as much as Hossa. So the decision is, do you want depth, or do you want one "lights out" sniper?

Also, here's a question for everyone:

If Detroit doesn't get a pure goal scorer like Hossa through a trade, who do you see within the organization filling that void?

I say, while Detroit has good prospects, none of them have that kind of pure scoring ability. I pesonally would like to see someone like that in Detroit before Lidstrom retires.

edit:spelling

And TBH, who wouldn't? That being said, having the needed amount depth though ensures the Wings will continue to place where they do in the standings. If they start moving too many guys like Filppula and Hudler at the same time for a lights-out sniper sooner or later you'll end up with a team like Tampa Bay.

Here's the thing, I'm all for Hossa (and for the term you mentioned), but I also want to be smart about it. I know Kenny is beyond capable of knowing how much is too much and if Atlanta asked for the deal you mentioned, I don't think Kenny will pull the trigger. It's too much depth to give up when you also consider the first rounder (which you didn't mention when you were talking about Flip and Huds in the future).

I want Hossa as bad as anyone......you can tell that by my posts within this very thread, but (being a salesman) I want him as cheap as possibly, and its not unreasonable to think he couldn't be had for Filppula, a prospect and a pick given his status in Atlanta.

[eva unit zero 271]

I agree; Hossa is worth Filppula/Hudler/1st rounder if Holland can lock him up for another 4, or more years...Me thinks landing Hossa will be a pipe dream since there's always a rival GM or 2 that'll outbid Holland.

Except that those teams with the assets and motivation to outbid Holland may not have the cap space to SIGN Hossa. That means having 7m available cap space for next season at the very least, let alone any future situations. We'll make that 6 and assume any team acquiring Hossa is giving up about 6m less than Atlanta would be in terms of future salary.

Hossa wants to win, so we'll only consider teams in the top four teams in their conference.

Hossa wants to sign long-term, so we'll only consider teams which have 6m in cap space for next season.

Detroit has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Dallas has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Minnesota has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Anaheim does NOT have enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Ottawa has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

New Jersey has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Montreal has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Pittsburgh has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

So far, the only team ruled out is Anaheim.

Now, let's look at assets. Atlanta wants a young forward who is a roster player, plus likely another offensively capable forward who is not a pending UFA, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick probably. Also excluded will be players who have signed extensions that begin next season, as well as each team's top two forwards in current salary. Who has this to give?

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, Zubrus, and Langenbrunner.

Minnesota has Bouchard, Koivu and Parrish.

Pittsburgh has Staal, Armstrong and Sykora.

Dallas has Jokinen and Modano.

Ottawa has Vermette and Alfredsson.

Montreal has Latendresse, Higgins and Plekanec.

Let's now exclude players who are unlikely to be traded by their current team for reasons such as leadership, defense, or sentimentality. We will then exclude all teams which do not still have the requisite pieces.

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

Now the potential packages are coming into focus. We'll whittle this group down to two players, requiring at least one offensively capable player and one solid young forward. If a young forward is projected as a team's first liner for years, and another is available, the better player will be excluded. Otherwise, the best young player will be used.

Detroit has Filppula and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Zajac and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

The team doesn't matter for the pick as all of these teams will be late picks in the round in some order.

These packages are all fairly equal in terms of overall combination of offense, defense, and potential. Detroit is the team that can most easily part with the listed package. That would suggest Detroit would then be the most willing to part with the stated package the soonest. Which makes Detroit the frontrunner for Hossa.

[russianswede919293 95]

I think that the rumors and hints are leaning toward Detroit being the team that is "light years" ahead of the others, according to DW.

I'm also sick of people saying they don't want Hossa because he's too expensive or a rental. He's neither, and it's been proven a million times already.

I believe in post #749 I proved my point that he is too expensive, because we can assume the raise in cap for next season, but not the one after that, and no raise in cap after that does not leave enough money to re-sign Zetterberg....So yes I proved otherwise....

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I think Sundin makes more sense than Hossa, because re-signing Hossa and Zetterberg will be a pain in the ass. Also, since teams know that Sundin won't re-sign with them, I think that will give the Leafs less leverage on how much they can get for him.

Another thing to consider is that last year everyone thought that Ryan Smyth would re-sign with the Oilers after they traded him away, but of course that's not how it turned out, so you never know. Maybe Sundin wont come back to the Leafs.

[russianswede919293 95]

Except that those teams with the assets and motivation to outbid Holland may not have the cap space to SIGN Hossa. That means having 7m available cap space for next season at the very least, let alone any future situations. We'll make that 6 and assume any team acquiring Hossa is giving up about 6m less than Atlanta would be in terms of future salary.

Hossa wants to win, so we'll only consider teams in the top four teams in their conference.

Hossa wants to sign long-term, so we'll only consider teams which have 6m in cap space for next season.

Detroit has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Dallas has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Minnesota has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Anaheim does NOT have enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Ottawa has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

New Jersey has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Montreal has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Pittsburgh has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

So far, the only team ruled out is Anaheim.

Now, let's look at assets. Atlanta wants a young forward who is a roster player, plus likely another offensively capable forward who is not a pending UFA, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick probably. Also excluded will be players who have signed extensions that begin next season, as well as each team's top two forwards in current salary. Who has this to give?

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, Zubrus, and Langenbrunner.

Minnesota has Bouchard, Koivu and Parrish.

Pittsburgh has Staal, Armstrong and Sykora.

Dallas has Jokinen and Modano.

Ottawa has Vermette and Alfredsson.

Montreal has Latendresse, Higgins and Plekanec.

Let's now exclude players who are unlikely to be traded by their current team for reasons such as leadership, defense, or sentimentality. We will then exclude all teams which do not still have the requisite pieces.

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

Now the potential packages are coming into focus. We'll whittle this group down to two players, requiring at least one offensively capable player and one solid young forward. If a young forward is projected as a team's first liner for years, and another is available, the better player will be excluded. Otherwise, the best young player will be used.

Detroit has Filppula and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Zajac and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

The team doesn't matter for the pick as all of these teams will be late picks in the round in some order.

These packages are all fairly equal in terms of overall combination of offense, defense, and potential. Detroit is the team that can most easily part with the listed package. That would suggest Detroit would then be the most willing to part with the stated package the soonest. Which makes Detroit the frontrunner for Hossa.

I don't think the Canadiens would trade Higgins. Also

Names believed offered up for Hossa are Michael Ryder and Mark Streit.

Spectors

So while I think you did a good analysis, those are not persay the players Atlanta would want for each team, or that are available...

[russianswede919293 95]

I think Sundin makes more sense than Hossa, because re-signing Hossa and Zetterberg will be a pain in the ass. Also, since teams know that Sundin won't re-sign with them, I think that will give the Leafs less leverage on how much they can get for him.

Another thing to consider is that last year everyone thought that Ryan Smyth would re-sign with the Oilers after they traded him away, but of course that's not how it turned out, so you never know. Maybe Sundin wont come back to the Leafs.

YAY LOGIC

[russianswede919293 95]

Sorry Double Post

Edited February 21, 2008 by russianswede919293

[ilmickeyli 40]

YAY DOUBLEPOST

[egroen 384]

Concerning the Facebook scandal of '08, this is a post over at HFboards:

I KNOW it is not his real profile because half the **** on it was made up. The faker listed Valtteri as "in a relationship" with herself (she was approximately 12 years old and clearly NOT in a relationship with him). I'm pretty certain that same person or her friend made up Lilja's profile too. The real Filppula has a private profile that I wouldn't actually friend because it's obviously for his REAL friends and I'm not a creeper.

The whole thing is just weird.

[Dominator2005 558]

http://thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl080220.html

Various reports have claimed that Higgins could be packaged in a trade for Atlanta Thrashers winger Marian Hossa to Chicago Blackhawks star Martin Havlat.

As I told yesterday - word here in Québec is:

Plan A - Habs are going after Hossa

Plan B - Habs are going after Richards

Plan C - Habs are going after Tanguay (I don't see happening...)

I read some BS here that Habs might trade Plekanec - it's completly stupid - why do you think Habs are going to break one of the best line in NHL???

[Dominator2005 558]

Hossa offers need upgrade

TheFourthPeriod.com

Thrashers GM Don Waddell has received plenty of interest in star sniper Marian Hossa, but he tells the Atlanta Journal-Constitution nothing is imminent.

"The [Hossa] talks have started, but I can tell you nobody is stepping to the plate and saying 'I've got to have this guy right now,' " Waddell said. "Right now, there's nothing on the table that I'm considering."

Sources tell TFP that Waddell is insisting on having an NHL-proven young player packaged as part of a deal for Hossa.

The Montreal Canadiens, Detroit Red Wings, Boston Bruins and San Jose Sharks are among the teams very interested in Hossa.

It's believed the Habs are willing to move Chris Higgins and Kyle Chipchura, while the Bruins could deal Phil Kessel and Mark Stuart. The Wings have Valtteri Filppula or Jiri Hudler they can offer, while the Sharks could move Steve Bernier or Jonathan Cheechoo.

It's also been reported that the Thrashers would be willing to give another team permission to speak with Hossa's agent once a competitive offer reaches Waddell's table.

Despite Waddell's comments, Montreal's La Presse is reporting that a trade between Atlanta and the Habs is close to being completed.

The paper notes Michael Ryder and Mark Streit have popped up as potential candidates heading to the Thrashers, but could not confirmed the speculation.

La Presse claims the Canadiens have already ordered equipment to accomodate Hossa.

[dallas27 7]

I think Sundin makes more sense than Hossa, because re-signing Hossa and Zetterberg will be a pain in the ass. Also, since teams know that Sundin won't re-sign with them, I think that will give the Leafs less leverage on how much they can get for him.

Another thing to consider is that last year everyone thought that Ryan Smyth would re-sign with the Oilers after they traded him away, but of course that's not how it turned out, so you never know. Maybe Sundin wont come back to the Leafs.

I honestly have no idea how people can not get through their thick skulls that signing Hossa long-term can be realistic, doable and not be a pain in the ass after Eva and YoungGuns crunched numbers.

Sundin makes absolutely NO SENSE when you can get Hossa and get him signed long-term. NONE.

[Dominator2005 558]

I honestly have no idea how people can not get through their thick skulls that signing Hossa long-term can be realistic, doable and not be a pain in the ass after Eva and YoungGuns crunched numbers.

Sundin makes absolutely NO SENSE when you can get Hossa and get him signed long-term. NONE.

Hossa is great player - but tell why do you think that he get traded from Ottawa??? He never performed in the playoffs!!! How much money will he command??? $8M per season??? Look at Tampa - 4 players team... I don't want Detroit to do the same thing... I would rather have 2 good 2nd liners (please stop that s*** that Sammy is 2nd liner)... You can have Jokinen and Malone/Cleary for that amount - why pay Hossa that much???

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer

Malone - Jokinen - Cleary

Maltby - Draper - McCarty/Downey

Flip/Hudler (if they are still in Detroit) - Franzen (if he's still in Detroit) - Sammy (if he'S still in Detroit)

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Chelios

Lebda/Quincey - Lilja/Quincey

Hasek/Osgood

[2probert4 8]

Except that those teams with the assets and motivation to outbid Holland may not have the cap space to SIGN Hossa. That means having 7m available cap space for next season at the very least, let alone any future situations. We'll make that 6 and assume any team acquiring Hossa is giving up about 6m less than Atlanta would be in terms of future salary.

Hossa wants to win, so we'll only consider teams in the top four teams in their conference.

Hossa wants to sign long-term, so we'll only consider teams which have 6m in cap space for next season.

Detroit has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Dallas has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Minnesota has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Anaheim does NOT have enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Ottawa has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

New Jersey has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Montreal has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

Pittsburgh has enough cap space, and is top four in their conference.

So far, the only team ruled out is Anaheim.

Now, let's look at assets. Atlanta wants a young forward who is a roster player, plus likely another offensively capable forward who is not a pending UFA, and a 2nd or 3rd round pick probably. Also excluded will be players who have signed extensions that begin next season, as well as each team's top two forwards in current salary. Who has this to give?

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, Holmstrom, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, Zubrus, and Langenbrunner.

Minnesota has Bouchard, Koivu and Parrish.

Pittsburgh has Staal, Armstrong and Sykora.

Dallas has Jokinen and Modano.

Ottawa has Vermette and Alfredsson.

Montreal has Latendresse, Higgins and Plekanec.

Let's now exclude players who are unlikely to be traded by their current team for reasons such as leadership, defense, or sentimentality. We will then exclude all teams which do not still have the requisite pieces.

Detroit has Filppula, Hudler, and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Parise, Zajac, and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

Now the potential packages are coming into focus. We'll whittle this group down to two players, requiring at least one offensively capable player and one solid young forward. If a young forward is projected as a team's first liner for years, and another is available, the better player will be excluded. Otherwise, the best young player will be used.

Detroit has Filppula and Samuelsson.

New Jersey has Zajac and Zubrus.

Minnesota has Bouchard and Koivu.

Pittsburgh has Armstrong and Sykora.

Montreal has Higgins and Plekanec.

The team doesn't matter for the pick as all of these teams will be late picks in the round in some order.

These packages are all fairly equal in terms of overall combination of offense, defense, and potential. Detroit is the team that can most easily part with the listed package. That would suggest Detroit would then be the most willing to part with the stated package the soonest. Which makes Detroit the frontrunner for Hossa.

But nobody knows what is being offered , and all these packages that people speculate with are just that... speculation. Samuelsson isn't worth much anymore. Might be safe to say we're stuck with him. If someone took him, anyone remember on the Bugs Bunny cartoons when the character would turn into a big lollipop with the word SUCKER written on it????

[Echolalia 2,961]

Is it next Tuesday yet?

[2probert4 8]

Hossa offers need upgrade

TheFourthPeriod.com

Thrashers GM Don Waddell has received plenty of interest in star sniper Marian Hossa, but he tells the Atlanta Journal-Constitution nothing is imminent.

"The [Hossa] talks have started, but I can tell you nobody is stepping to the plate and saying 'I've got to have this guy right now,' " Waddell said. "Right now, there's nothing on the table that I'm considering."

Sources tell TFP that Waddell is insisting on having an NHL-proven young player packaged as part of a deal for Hossa.

The Montreal Canadiens, Detroit Red Wings, Boston Bruins and San Jose Sharks are among the teams very interested in Hossa.

It's believed the Habs are willing to move Chris Higgins and Kyle Chipchura, while the Bruins could deal Phil Kessel and Mark Stuart. The Wings have Valtteri Filppula or Jiri Hudler they can offer, while the Sharks could move Steve Bernier or Jonathan Cheechoo.

It's also been reported that the Thrashers would be willing to give another team permission to speak with Hossa's agent once a competitive offer reaches Waddell's table.

Despite Waddell's comments, Montreal's La Presse is reporting that a trade between Atlanta and the Habs is close to being completed.

The paper notes Michael Ryder and Mark Streit have popped up as potential candidates heading to the Thrashers, but could not confirmed the speculation.

La Presse claims the Canadiens have already ordered equipment to accomodate Hossa.

Sharks are said to be offering Marleau and Matt Carle in a deal for Hossa . Yes Marleau is injured I know.

[dallas27 7]

Hossa is great player - but tell why do you think that he get traded from Ottawa??? He never performed in the playoffs!!! How much money will he command??? $8M per season??? Look at Tampa - 4 players team... I don't want Detroit to do the same thing... I would rather have 2 good 2nd liners (please stop that s*** that Sammy is 2nd liner)... You can have Jokinen and Malone/Cleary for that amount - why pay Hossa that much???

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Homer

Malone - Jokinen - Cleary

Maltby - Draper - McCarty/Downey

Flip/Hudler (if they are still in Detroit) - Franzen (if he's still in Detroit) - Sammy (if he'S still in Detroit)

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Kronwall - Chelios

Lebda/Quincey - Lilja/Quincey

Hasek/Osgood

And I don't know how many times we've been through this too. Daystuk did AMAZING up until last year in the playoffs too (/sarcasm)

You pay Hossa that much because he is a) a franchise player b) has an unbelievable amount of talent and c) will net AT LEAST 40+ goals for the next 4-5 seasons in Detroit's system.

It is literally a no-brainer if Holland can pull this off, why people are so god damn obtuse to see this is beyond me.

[dallas27 7]

Another thing to consider is that last year everyone thought that Ryan Smyth would re-sign with the Oilers after they traded him away, but of course that's not how it turned out, so you never know. Maybe Sundin wont come back to the Leafs.

A common theme among the Red Wings and ESPECIALLY this board is loyalty. Sundin has played for one team, where in a city he is for all intensive purposes a god, what makes you think he would not be bolting back to Toronto?

Edited February 21, 2008 by dallas27

[Rmac111 2]

Brownish Mathias

The Press

EXCLUSIVE - Nothing enables us for the moment to confirm that a transaction between the Canadian and Thrashers of Atlanta is concluded, but the Press learned, yesterday, that one had ordered equipment with the colors of the formation montréalaise for the attacker high-speed motorboat 29 year old, Marian Hossa.

Such an order does not want to necessarily say that the business is in the bag. Two years ago, one had manufactured equipment for Nikolai Khabibulin and Adrian Aucoin, but this one had broken ankle the day before of the advertisement of the transaction and all had fallen through (it seems that Theodore, Ribeiro and Dagenais would have passed to Blackhawks in the exchange).

It also happens that a DG can change opinion following a mirobolante offer received at the last minute. Except that an order of equipment is not placed unless the negociations with opposing team are not serious. A company can spend at least a day to manufacture a pair of breeches or gloves to measure for athlete. The Tricolour one undoubtedly wanted to make sure that all is ready in time if the transaction is finalized soon.

The names of Michael Ryder and Streit Mark circulated yesterday (and perhaps a choice with the fishing out or a hope), but this information could not be confirmed in a sure way.

The last day of meeting of the general managers, yesterday, to Naples, in Florida, gave rise to certain rumours. At the end of the afternoon, CBC announced on its Internet site that Alex Tanguay passed to Tricolour in return of Michael Ryder and a choice to the fishing out, except which one quickly withdrew the cuff.

Several indices showed recently that Bob Gainey and its counterpart Don Waddell tried to prepare a large blow. Gainey did not hide this week that it tried to add a player of foreground to his formation.

Waddell attended on the spot two meetings of the Canadian these two last weeks, going even until missing a drive by its team to attend the match of CH in Florida eight days ago. At the time of its passage in the Bell Center the previous week, it blagué with fellow-members, saying to them that it moved to see a player with work, but that this one was not even in uniform (Michael Ryder).

The DG of Thrashers always indicated that he wanted to obtain players being able to help it in the short run in return of Hossa since its club is always in the race for a place in series. It never hid its interest for an offensive defender.

Marian Hossa, Streit Mark and Michael Ryder have an identical contractual statute, i.e. they will have right to complete autonomy at the end of the season. It is not impossible however that a club gives the permission to the team with whom it compromises to discuss contract with the player implied in the exchange. The analyst Murray Wilson, of CJAD, had declared besides in waves it has been a few weeks that Gainey had obtained the permission to discuss prolongation of contract with Hossa.

Marian Hossa, which touches 7 million this season, knows one season lower than its usual standards with 53 points in 58 matches, but it offered an output of 100 and 92 points at the time the two previous seasons. It remains one of the wingers most endowed with the national League.

Let us hope for the Canadian that the tendency is maintained and that this formidable player can endorse the new equipment which one has just manufactured to him...

From La Presse

Translation care of Babelfish!

[Dominator2005 558]

And I don't know how many times we've been through this too. Daystuk did AMAZING up until last year in the playoffs too (/sarcasm)

You pay Hossa that much because he is a) a franchise player b) has an unbelievable amount of talent and c) will net AT LEAST 40+ goals for the next 4-5 seasons in Detroit's system.

It is literally a no-brainer if Holland can pull this off, why people are so god damn obtuse to see this is beyond me.

... and you have Tampa Bay # 2 ... great!!! We are not in 90's - this is a new (cap) era where you need at least 3 solid lines!!! Right now we have only 1 scoring lines...

I would rather have 2 real 2nd liners... but that's me

[chrisdetroit 189]

But nobody knows what is being offered , and all these packages that people speculate with are just that... speculation. Samuelsson isn't worth much anymore. Might be safe to say we're stuck with him. If someone took him, anyone remember on the Bugs Bunny cartoons when the character would turn into a big lollipop with the word SUCKER written on it????

Flip is off the table. He is not going anywhere.

[Dominator2005 558]

Flip is off the table. He is not going anywhere.

I don't think so...

[Hank 0]

http://thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl080220.html

Various reports have claimed that Higgins could be packaged in a trade for Atlanta Thrashers winger Marian Hossa to Chicago Blackhawks star Martin Havlat.

As I told yesterday - word here in Québec is:

Plan A - Habs are going after Hossa

Plan B - Habs are going after Richards

Plan C - Habs are going after Tanguay (I don't see happening...)

I read some BS here that Habs might trade Plekanec - it's completly stupid - why do you think Habs are going to break one of the best line in NHL???

Tanguay has a NTC and many insiders have said he has no desire to play in Montreal whatsoever. I don't blame any Francophone for wanting to stay far away from Montreal. The pressure is unbelievable.

[Dominator2005 558]

Tanguay has a NTC and many insiders have said he has no desire to play in Montreal whatsoever. I don't blame any Francophone for wanting to stay far away from Montreal. The pressure is unbelievable.

Yes I know that... they are crazy