NHL GM's Declare War on Goalies

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Did anyone else see the fit he threw on the bench after giving up 3 quick goals to the Wild? Just seeing him swimming in all that gear made me laugh.

And the 3 goals he let in were classic Giguere - standing and not even waving at any of the pucks. He has no reflexes whatsoever. And then he blames the defense for not picking up the shootes. Brian Rolston fired a puck from 25 feet away, and on a bad angle, that Giggy saw all the way and yet the only thing he did was turtle his head.

Giggy sucks and he's the exact reason why goalie gear needs to be reduced. I'm just tired of watching some of the worlds best hockey players have to compete in an unfair era where goalies are permitted to take up twice the cubic space as goalies did for the past 80 years.

The only issue I see is that the goalies and PA will object to this - even with current tenders like Brodeur and Turco wanting change.

So in the end, the decision will be the goalies - wear smaller gear or work in front of larger nets.

If larger nets are the final decision, no hatred should be directed towards the league or GM's. All of peoples venom should be thrown at the goalies.

QFT

It is the goalies that have taken advantage of the rules and the lack of enforcement here. Luongo looks like a rice-burning street racer with all the attachments he wears. I half expect him to have a park-bench style spoiler on his ass when he comes out one of these times.

[Jocu 0]

If you're seriously denying that there's an equipment issue, I see no reason to even start an argument with you.

I'm not saying equipment doesn't play a role, but it's ignorant to say that the techniques used in the past goaltending years could stand a chance to today's goaltending techniques.

The only thing you can really shrink would be the length of the pads by a couple of inches and certain parts of the C/A.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Jocu

[Hank 0]

Agreed, it's not the players' fault that goalies actually evolved and go to camps to learn what save to use for what occasion, work on a perfect butterfly and stance, etc.

You forgot, stuff their jerseys, or rig their gear so flaps extend when they go into the butterfly (see Giguere). Last time I checked human beings don't have skin and bones jutting out from their ears (which is the area being protected when these flaps pop up).

The only people who think goalie gear is fine are goalies - big surprise. The rest of the sane population who actually care about hockey and the entertainment value of the sport agrees that gear is out of control.

I dont' care what any amateur or beer league goalie says, when actual former pro's or individuals who have jobs in the NHL say that goalie gear needs to be smaller, it should be. And this includes actual current and former goalies such as Brodeur, Turco, Roy, Dryden, Esposito...

Answer me this Jocu, what if a manufacturer was able to create goalie gear, from head-to-toe, that was completely 100% safe and prevented the goalie from feeling any pain, but was shrink wrapped to their skin. Would you still object to it? Because if you do, then you're fully admitting that goalies should be allowed to cheat only because they're goalies.

We have the technology to shrink tenders without sacrificing safety. And that's exactly what will happen when the standards change. Why fight soemthing that's actually GOOD for the game? Because you're GAA might go up in your local beer league?

Edited February 20, 2008 by Hank

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Agreed, it's not the players' fault that goalies actually evolved and go to camps to learn what save to use for what occasion, work on a perfect butterfly and stance, etc.

While I agree that goalies as a whole have improved, how about letting them prove it? Put them in comparable pads and equipment to the goalies of old; they can use all the new materials they want, but the size needs to be the same.

When a goalies leg pads stick out 5-6 inches past his leg on each side, that isn't for safety (unless you think the twine needs to be kept from feeling pain). When a goalie's arms look like a little kid in a snowsuit, that isn't for safety either.

If the goalies think they need all those pads to feel safe, then they are welcome to retire. Homer stands in front of the same shots they do, and all he has is clamshells on his lower leg.

If goalies say they don't need all those pads to be good then they can go to the smaller pads and not get any worse, right? I don't believe it.

[Salviaman 104]

I wonder what Giguere, Legace, Luongo, and Roloson thought when they woke up and heard this news? I bet it was something to the degree of " OH *$@# ME ^$* @!#$'*$", then a little prayer saying "WHY GOD WHY?"

It is time for them to stop bitching and time for them to put up or shut up. PROVE to me that you are a NHL goalie, wait.... PROVE TO THE NHL that you are a nHL goalie. We will all be watching you

[Dabura 12,207]

it's ignorant to say that the techniques used in the past goaltending years could stand a chance to today's goaltending techniques.

I must have missed the part where I said that. I'm well-aware that the times have changed. The fact is, though, that doesn't justify the crap some goalies are pulling with their equipment. It's really that simple.

[Hank 0]

While I agree that goalies as a whole have improved, how about letting them prove it? Put them in comparable pads and equipment to the goalies of old; they can use all the new materials they want, but the size needs to be the same.

When a goalies leg pads stick out 5-6 inches past his leg on each side, that isn't for safety (unless you think the twine needs to be kept from feeling pain). When a goalie's arms look like a little kid in a snowsuit, that isn't for safety either.

If the goalies think they need all those pads to feel safe, then they are welcome to retire. Homer stands in front of the same shots they do, and all he has is clamshells on his lower leg.

If goalies say they don't need all those pads to be good then they can go to the smaller pads and not get any worse, right? I don't believe it.

All valid points. And I think it should be noted that technological advances in the skaters gear has allowed everyone to be an effective shot blocker. I've heard Tony Esposito say that today's shin guards are better than the leg pads he wore.

If skaters can block shots with the streamlined gear they have, why can't goalie equipment be shrunk as well?

I just think it's hilarious that, through advances in materials, while the rest of sporting equipment has shrunk, goalie gear has gotten larger. It makes no sense. The only answer is that goalies are trying to secure jobs by protecting more of the net, not themselves.

Luongo has said that he'll quit if they make the nets bigger. Well now it's time for Count Dracula to put his money where his mouth is. He and the rest of the goalies can show the world that they are just as good with smaller, and just as protective, equipment.

[Jocu 0]

I just photoshopped this. I think this is about enough of a deduction to satisfy myself. Basically thinned out the arms for you all, and lost a few inches off the length of the pads and gloves.

[Hank 0]

I just photoshopped this. I think this is about enough of a deduction to satisfy myself. Basically thinned out the arms for you all, and lost a few inches off the length of the pads and gloves.

Again, why does gear need to be even that big? If they could give them a long sleeved Tshirt that could stop a bullet, then why shouldn't goalies wear it?

Even in your modded photo, his leg pads can be chopped, his trapper should be reduced, his belly pad needs to be tucked in, his shoulder pads still need to be cut down and despite his pants being covered up, I've seen Luongo's and they need to be shrunk as well. Just look how far his shoulder pads shoot out. Luongo is a very skinny guy. He doesn't have shoulders like The Rock. His upperbody could be reduced in half.

With every post you make, you're basically admitting that goalies should be allowed to cheat simply because they're goalies.

Ken Dryden faced shooters like Bobby Hull with basically a turtleneck on. And he didn't have the luxery of traps or defenses that collapsed on him to block shots. Yet despite this, he was still able to survive on the ice. With the way goalies talk nowadays you would have thought a lot more goalies should have died pre-2000 hockey.

Suck it up and play with fair gear. There's a reason why goalies were always considered loopy back in the day. Now it's the smartest and safest position to play.

[OsGOD 3]

Then i think its time the skaters go back to the days of yesteryear also... Lets get rid of the carbon sticks... the Synergys and whatever else sticks they use... lets get rid of these heated bladed skates... Cause its looks like the Skaters are also benefiting via improved equipment.

[Dabura 12,207]

A slapshot has always been a slapshot.

[OsGOD 3]

A slapshot has always been a slapshot.

But with the improved technology in the new wave of sticks, while the techniques are the same... the outcome is a lot different. The philosophy is the same... the Tools used are vastly different (new and improved so to speak)

Same can be said about goalies... they can still kick their legs out to make saves... thats still the exact same... but the tools are different.

Edited February 20, 2008 by OsGOD

[Dabura 12,207]

It's really not, though. They may be a bit harder and faster on average, but the helmet-less goalies of yesterday were still very much risking their lives every time they lined up against a wind-up.

But this is tangential. The point is, goalie equipment has gotten out of hand and needs to addressed. Anyone who disagrees has blinders on.

Edited February 20, 2008 by Dabura

[Majsheppard 203]

If they fix this equipment problem, I demand Roy unretires so we can fix his inflated stats.

[OsGOD 3]

It's really not, though. They may be a bit harder and faster on average, but the helmet-less goalies of yesterday were still very much risking their lives every time they lined up against a wind-up.

But this is tangential. The point is, goalie equipment has gotten out of hand and needs to addressed. Anyone who disagrees has blinders on.

Well of course they were... what i am saying is if you want to be bring the Goalies back to the 60's you better also bring the skaters back to that time as well... Assuming you feel they were on equal terms back then....

Modifing tools of one person while not modifiying others seems rather, "fixing" the outcomes of the games.

[edicius 3,269]

I honestly would be surprised if there was a noticeable change in his performance.

Giguere is a pretty big guy (6'1" 200 lbs) so he'll be able to justify relatively bigger equipment, and is a very sound positional goaltender. As long as he's on a good defensive team like the Ducks, I think he'll excel. If he were on a bad team that didn't clear rebounds and protect his crease, then I think he'd be exposed.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, harold...but then I looked at Giguere's size as compared to Brodeur, who has much smaller pads.

Giguere: 6'1", 200lbs.

Brodeur: 6'2", 215lbs.

Marty's actually bigger than Giguere and uses significantly smaller pads. With the Brodeur factor in play, I don't think Giguere can justify that max-size equipment.

[Hank 0]

Then i think its time the skaters go back to the days of yesteryear also... Lets get rid of the carbon sticks... the Synergys and whatever else sticks they use... lets get rid of these heated bladed skates... Cause its looks like the Skaters are also benefiting via improved equipment.

I have absolutely no problem with this.

But if anything, the improvements in skaters technology have helped defenses much more than offense. Players are quicker and therefore can backcheck faster - less shots, less odd man rushes, less breakaways.

Shin guards and skates are so tough that players can block shots without feeling anything - again goalies benefit.

And even with the average guy shooting somewhat harder than players did 20 years ago, it still doesn't explain why goalies need to have equipment that expands out to areas where there is no skin and bones to protect.

[drwscc 212]

So, until you see a D-man with matresses strapped to his legs, or a forward skating down with a big bertha composite stick, i think the modifications have mainly been done by the goalies.

This isn't about penalizing the goalies..It's about bringing goalies and skaters back to more even footing.

It's either the pads shrink, or the net grows. If there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be that many goalies, even playing now, that agree something needs to be changed.

[Hank 0]

So, until you see a D-man with matresses strapped to his legs, or a forward skating down with a big bertha composite stick, i think the modifications have mainly been done by the goalies.

This isn't about penalizing the goalies..It's about bringing goalies and skaters back to more even footing.

It's either the pads shrink, or the net grows. If there wasn't a problem, there wouldn't be that many goalies, even playing now, that agree something needs to be changed.

Thank you!

[34Legace34 0]

been a goalie my whole life...and it hurts that i have to agree with the equipment getting smaller.

its now up to the equipment companies to step up and protect these guys while reducing size.

it will be hard to get the gloves to be any smaller. ive tried on these new "pro spec" gloves, and they are tiny as hell. 11inch pads will probably be the limit for a while as well, as these pads are really skinny. maybe trim a half inch thats about it. what can be reduced on the pads is the thigh rise, which is where the pad extends above the knee, making them so tall.

the major issue is the pants, and the chest protectors (C/A). The NHL is going to have to approach the major companies to see if they can get some better ways of protecting these guys without "balooning" them up.

heres a recent pic of drew macintyre...notice how small his blocker is in comparison to his forearm/elbow area. also the line on the pads is where the top of his knee is probably sitting, maybe its a little higher because im pretty sure is taller than 6ft. the thigh rise on the pads has gotten out of control. other good examples are Legace and Lundqvist

they CAN make these guys smaller, they just need to go ahead and get the proper equipment made.

Edited February 20, 2008 by 34Legace34

[Grittzkey 1]

SMALLER PADS

MORE GOALS

MORE HISTORY TO BE MADE BY PEOPLE WHO WOULD OF NEVER HAD A CHANCE BEFORE

[drwscc 212]

SMALLER PADS

MORE GOALS

MORE HISTORY TO BE MADE BY PEOPLE WHO WOULD OF NEVER HAD A CHANCE BEFORE

You really think that all the goal scoring in the 80's would have been possible against the pads players deal with today? I think you put Gretzky against Giggy, and there's no broken records. Hell, Crosby and Ovechkin are the best out there today, and arguably bigger, faster, better than Gretzky was, and they aren't really even coming close to the rate of scoring Gretzky did.

[ruarc' 2]

on a side note... this really speaks to the fact that the league is trying to promote all around skill.

[Darius099 0]

We don't need this. Hockey has enough offense. Stop trying to fix what isn't broken.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Ordinarily I'd agree with you, harold...but then I looked at Giguere's size as compared to Brodeur, who has much smaller pads.

Giguere: 6'1", 200lbs.

Brodeur: 6'2", 215lbs.

Marty's actually bigger than Giguere and uses significantly smaller pads. With the Brodeur factor in play, I don't think Giguere can justify that max-size equipment.

I don't disagree with that at all. If you can find a pic of Giguere in street clothes (or any goaltender for that matter) it's shocking how skinny he is relative to how he looks on the ice.

His pad size can definitely come down. My main point was that I don't think it will ruin his career in the way some are hoping for.