NHL GM's Declare War on Goalies

[Jocu 0]

When's the last time anyone here saw Giggy make a sprawling kick or glove save? It doesn't happen because he's not quick or skilled enough to do them.

I also love how everyone babbles on about how Giggy's pad length helps him cheat.

If you've ever seen him make a save, it's almost always in the gut or in his knees. His butterfly is very narrow, making the length of his pads just form a bit of a tunnel. Giggy also brings his shoulders up and bends more over at the waist than other goalies, almost like a vulture.

Nice to see squaring up to the puck and being in position doesn't get you any credit. itz all teh gear.

Nothing will change. Goalies will take about a year to adapt to the new specs and they'll play the same, if not better. Last time we took inches off the gear, goalies only got quicker.

Edited February 21, 2008 by Jocu

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Giguere is a good goalie because he plays the straight away very well, blocks shots well and has a great defence. On Tampa Bay, he'd be getting lit up every night. He cant handle angle shots or blazing slapshots, I saw Rolston blow one right past him one game where he just stood there and tried to blame the defenceman. If the equipment is shrunk, I see Giguere's numbers going down, he's not very athletic, and that will hurt him.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I almost fell out of my chair seeing that. I would LOVE to see Giguere wearing Marty's pads and see what happens to his stats.

What the hell is with the side of his glove?!? look at brodeurs (both above full size) in comparison!

[vangvace 12]

enough already, leave the goalies alone

Ray Slover from The Sporting News thinks unstable franchises, rotten TV coverage and the price of beer are all more of a problem to the game of hockey than goalies. He gets a tad sarcastic about it all.

I think one reason goaltenders' equipment is more protective now than, say 30 years ago, has to do with the fact that the skaters/shooters now are huge, incredibly strong guys, compared to the hockey players of that era. Players now are bigger, stronger and they have better equipment. I don't see the problem with protecting the goalies or at least giving them a fighting chance with equipment that has kept pace with the tools provided to the skaters.

I for one don't really care to see games with scores that look like basketball games instead of hockey games. A timely, well-executed goal is a thing of beauty, and usually well-earned, if the player is skilled enough to get it past your typical "top notch" NHL goaltender. I think game after game of seeing the goalies get shelled every night would actually get stale pretty quick.

The tough part is the subjectiveness of who decides which goalie's equipment is over the line in terms of size, if that is the opinion at issue. Maybe we should regulate the height and weight of the goalies, so they're all the same height and weight.

I remember when giving up three or four goals wasn't considered being "shelled."

Honestly I think it started with protection of the body, but has moved on to making themselves as large as legally possible.

It's not like the scores are going to jump up into the teens either. You didn't see basketball game scores during the 80s and early 90s did you? All players equipment has improved the difference being that the goalie's equipment has the most impact on the game.

Maybe it's just be, but a wrister from the faceoff dot with the goalie square to the shooter should have a better chance of scoring without redirection or screens than I do of winning the lottery.

A way they could match the equipment to the goalie is to make it so their equipment can only extend so far away from the body with the jersey on. Measure it in a few positions, like standing, kneeing, arms at sides and arms extended out.

Leg pads. I'm ok with the width. They're only a inch widder than they used to be and length is the more pressing issue. 6 inches (random number BTW) above the top of the knee standing straight.

Glove... It started as a baseball glove. now the freaking thing is 45" around. Now how in the hell is that for player's safety?

While we're at it let's get rid of the zamoni's too.

[Jocu 0]

What the hell is with the side of his glove?!? look at brodeurs (both above full size) in comparison!

It's called a sidewall, Marty's has it too.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

yeah.... minus about 6" worth of material top and bottom of his thumb.

[Jocu 0]

Even if, and if the NHL has it's way, when Giggy goes back to whenever this was taken, he's got the lateral movement and positioning that a 2008 goalie learns, and will mean more gut saves. It's not going to kill him, and the only reason he wears what he wears now is because everyone else is. It's just going to take a official ruling to stop that.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

If he goes back down to that much, he'll be just like he was in Calgary. 3rd stringer.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

If he goes back down to that much, he'll be just like he was in Calgary. 3rd stringer.

with the puck already in the net like in that picture

[auxlepli 17]

Police officers, soldiers, sailors, and Marines wear gear that stop bullets traveling 400-plus miles per hour. While they look big, they don't look as big as Michelin Man who stops pucks traveling at best 110 miles per hour.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Police officers, soldiers, sailors, and Marines wear gear that stop bullets traveling 400-plus miles per hour. While they look big, they don't look as big as Michelin Man who stops pucks traveling at best 110 miles per hour.

I understand your arguement... However I disagree with your arguement. There's alot... and I mean alot of difference in mass between a bullet and a puck. A puck has alot more going behind it than a bullet. At the same time, a bullet is designed to penetrate while a puck is not. Simple physics, bouncing (such as a bean bag projectile) will cause more damage than penetration or crushing. Anyways... my whole point is that bulletproof armor cannot in any way be compared to hockey padding. I don't know the numbers, maybe someone does... but unless you can provide actual figures between the two, you cannot compare them.

[Firehawk 305]

I hate it when people try to say "well skaters have more advanced sticks and such so they are better too, so don't just attack goalies". That makes no sense. Just because a stick is made a certain way to allow for a shot 5mph more, the net is being blocked 30% more than it was 30 years ago. THINK ABOUT IT. NOT QUITE THE SAME.

I was all for letting players put whatever curve they wanted on their sticks as well, but in reality, what's that going to do? A couple goals more might be scored, but that net is still more than half blocked by a goalie just standing in it. I'm all for designing and enforcing form-fitting equipment to shrinking these goalies. It would be alot more fun watching higher scoring games than these 1-0 or 2-1 games.

[Firehawk 305]

Even if, and if the NHL has it's way, when Giggy goes back to whenever this was taken, he's got the lateral movement and positioning that a 2008 goalie learns, and will mean more gut saves. It's not going to kill him, and the only reason he wears what he wears now is because everyone else is. It's just going to take a official ruling to stop that.

Giggy is slow side to side. He'll have one of the highest GAA in the league if he were forced to significantly shrink the pads.

[Hank 0]

Even if, and if the NHL has it's way, when Giggy goes back to whenever this was taken, he's got the lateral movement and positioning that a 2008 goalie learns, and will mean more gut saves. It's not going to kill him, and the only reason he wears what he wears now is because everyone else is. It's just going to take a official ruling to stop that.

Giggy is the reason why this is even being discussed.

Yes, every goalie has some inflated equipment, but NOTHING compares to Giggy. His stuff is on the side of comical.

And while he has decent lateral movement, he's still basically a table-hockey goalie. He only moves side-to-side. His glove hand and blocker are very slow and weak. And he's not that very mobile to prevent fast cross-crease passes.

I've seen him give up these goals where he doesn't even move once the puck goes across the crease and is slammed into the net. He simply stands there like a big dummy.

Because all he does well is square to the shooter, if the shooter sees more daylight he'll get lit up more. I can't tell you how many goals I've seen his equipment stop for him. With less equipment, less 'stops'.

Giggy sucks.

[eva unit zero 271]

Even if, and if the NHL has it's way, when Giggy goes back to whenever this was taken, he's got the lateral movement and positioning that a 2008 goalie learns, and will mean more gut saves. It's not going to kill him, and the only reason he wears what he wears now is because everyone else is. It's just going to take a official ruling to stop that.

Giguere's GAA the season that picture was taken was either 2.73 or 3.21, just for reference. He's a decent goalie positionally, but his poor reflexes and lateral movement are very much taken out of the picture by oversized equipment and good defense. Without the pads, he's a backup at best.

[eva unit zero 271]

I understand your arguement... However I disagree with your arguement. There's alot... and I mean alot of difference in mass between a bullet and a puck. A puck has alot more going behind it than a bullet. At the same time, a bullet is designed to penetrate while a puck is not. Simple physics, bouncing (such as a bean bag projectile) will cause more damage than penetration or crushing. Anyways... my whole point is that bulletproof armor cannot in any way be compared to hockey padding. I don't know the numbers, maybe someone does... but unless you can provide actual figures between the two, you cannot compare them.

The gear I wear stops pucks extremely well. I'm 5-10, and weight 150 lbs, and I have gear that is pretty tight and still protects me from impact. Hell, if I put on a goalie's trapper and blocker, I could probably play goal in my current gear without fear of injury. Leg pads should be limited to 2 inches above the knee in height, and ten inches in width. The blocker should be limited to six inches in width, and only allowed to extend four inches above the wrist.

[Hank 0]

I understand your arguement... However I disagree with your arguement. There's alot... and I mean alot of difference in mass between a bullet and a puck. A puck has alot more going behind it than a bullet. At the same time, a bullet is designed to penetrate while a puck is not. Simple physics, bouncing (such as a bean bag projectile) will cause more damage than penetration or crushing. Anyways... my whole point is that bulletproof armor cannot in any way be compared to hockey padding. I don't know the numbers, maybe someone does... but unless you can provide actual figures between the two, you cannot compare them.

So you're saying that a puck would hurt worse than a bullet only because it's bigger? I've spoken to cops that have taken a shot while wearing a bullet proof vest. They said it's like getting hit with a mack truck.

You can absolutely make the same comparison. The idea is that there are materials available that allow cops to protect themselves against a freakin' bullet (that can crack an engine block) while still wearing a T-shirt.

If that's possible then so is shrinking the goalie equipment so it's of reasonable size.

Look at Lidstrom's skates. They're made of the same material as the composite sticks. I've heard Lidstrom say a dozen times that he can take a 100MPH slapshot off the toe of his skate and he barely feels it.

If you can mold this material to a SKATE, how come it can't be done for something like chest and arm protectors???

Please people, stop defending goalies. It's already been shown that technology has helped streamline every single thing in life while goalies continue to grow. It's not for physical safety, but rather job security. Take up more net, see less goals. It's that simple.

True, goalies are far more conditioned and agile than from previous era's, but it I don't think they've gotten that good to the point where a 2.50 GAA is considered horrible. Especially when you think how Grant Fuhr won the Vezina with a 3.70 GAA and .877 save % only 20 years ago.

Goalies take up 30% more of the net than from years past. And while some goalies are much bigger, Ken Dryden would still be a monster in today's age and he was half the size of Giggy or Luongo. And he played in an era where he had to stop blasts from players such as Bobby Hull.

Seriously, whoever thinks the goalies need to be this big needs serious psychological help.

[Jenn 0]

True. Everyone seems to think it is his equipment and ONLY his equipment that makes him a good goalie. You don't see him flip around alot not because of him being slow or that his gear is "big" it is because he is rarely out of position. And he is on a team with a ridiculous amount of skill on D. If you see a goalie flipping it usually means that the goalie was not in a great position to start out with and made a mistake and is trying to recover... no?. I find it hard to believe that giggys gear got him a cup and a conn smyth (when his team didn't even win the cup). I think he is easy to target because of what team he plays for. And if the goalie equipment gets reduced the amount of injuries will increase even if that means 1 more goalie will get injured that is 1 too many.

It's not only his equipment to be sure, but it sure helps. Yes, he plays well positionally, but with bigger gear, it makes it easier to cut angles without getting out of the net, hence being sound positionally. And when he won the Conn Smyth, he didn't have that much talent on D. He's an easy target because his gear is the biggest in the league.

And I have a hard time recalling a slew of goalies going down from taking a hard slapshot to the chest. I remember a bunch of groin injuries...

[OsGOD 3]

OsGod which would you rather see in future NHL games - bigger nets or smaller goalie gear? One or the other is going to happen. There's not a third option.

One pill makes makes nets larger, one pill makes goalies smaller.

The one that Bettman gave us hasn't done anything at all.

Don't ask Michelin Man, he's already 10 feet tall, err wide.

Bigger nets... In fact why make them inches bigger lets just make them the size of Outdoor soccer nets... those games are still 1-0 games.... it should still be a good ol' time.

The third option could be, who the hell cares?? its not like Scoring is Down.... we are still seeing 6-5 games all over the place.

OR

Make the pucks smaller!!!! that would solve all problems.

Whatever they do its just going to go back to the way it is now over time. Look at the salary cap raising increasingly high each season... makes you wonder WTF they had to sit out an entire season for.

This is all so trival

Edited February 21, 2008 by OsGOD

[NHLrules? 32]

Bullets travel from about 1000 mph to 2500 mph based on caliber etc.

Much faster than 400 mph.

And no, a puck would not hurt as bad or hit nearly as hard as a 44 mag round, thats just silly talk.

[auxlepli 17]

Yeah 400 was the slowest bullet speed and 100 was the fastest puck speed I found in in my brief search.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

I don't have a problem with big goalie equipment, but I'd rather they shrink the equipment instead of making the nets bigger.

Amen to that, I would have to imagine that goalies have a highly developed sense of space regarding the net behind them and changing the dimensions could be a major brain short circuit for them. However, if the threat gets some action, then I say threaten away by God! Never forget our first round loss to the Ducks. It wasn't Bab's brilliant coaching that robbed us, it was those darn Michelin Man pads!!!

P.S. Now here is a REAL skilled goalie and pad size means nothing to him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUzZByhEMPY

Edited February 21, 2008 by LivingtheDream

[toby91_ca 620]

I'm really disappointed in the argument that the goalies need the big equipment for protection, that is just absurd.

Think about it, how big is your hand, how big is the goalie's trapper. What part of his body is the outer areas of the trapper protecting.

What about the Jerseys that are 5X the size they need to be. Are goalies going to try for a second to argue that they need a bigger jersey for potection?

Why are wider and longer pads needed for protection? Are their legs really that wide? Do they not wear potective pants that come to their knees? Anything above the knee is beyond protection zone.

I could go on and on, but the protection argument is plain stupid.

Also, count me in as someone who will defend Giggy. The guy is a great goalie, big equipment or not.

[puckloo39 5,686]

Make the pucks smaller!!!! that would solve all problems.

great idea!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Who needs bigger pads when you have eyes in the back of your head?