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Hank

NHL GM's Declare War on Goalies

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Its clear not many of you are goalies. Im a goalie so I kno. NHL does not need more goals and the goalies do not need smaller pads. Some of u are making it seem like goalies wear pads that takes up the whole net. I wear NHL regulation size pads and its not like that at all. i want to see some of you who say goalies need smaller pads to to try playing goalie one time and see how it works out for you. You should beable to stop every shot right? I mean cause the pads are SO BIG.

And if the NHL makes the nets bigger these pro's will be hitting the corners left an right for goals. That would make it boring. The position of the goalie is the most exiting to watch dont mess it up by changing the pads or nets.

That is definitely your opinion, and seeing as you are a goalie I would consider it a biased opinion. But to tell you the truth this decision has nothing to do with your opinion or mine. The league is trying to expand its' audience, and most Americans want to see scoring, not great defensive plays, yeah the occasional brilliant save will make highlight reels, and people will ohh and ahh for a little bit. But the overall goal from the lockout has been developing a brand of hockey that will appeal to a broader audience and a game that is faster paced and more offensive than the current product. Hence all of the changes.

Also it is not that the pads are SO BIG that they block out the sun, but a lot of goalies use pads that are way to big for them and hockey pants that would fit Andre the Giant let a lone a skinny pencil necked 6'2" 185 netminder.

I was at a Manchester Monarchs game and the goalie's pants were so big (How big were they, lol) that their was at least 8 inches of spare room around the waste of the pants. Goalies have purposely gone out and got the biggest pads and pants they can fit under the rules, it is not about getting equipment that fits them or is safer, it is about covering as much space as possible.

And as a goalie I hope you understand the principal of angles, and that if a goalie is in his crease and covers, lets say for the sake of argument, 70% of the net. If that goalie takes one step off of his line in a direct angle towards the puck he covers more of the net. Goalie pads extend far past the edge of the leg, ribs, arms, and shoulders. Some goalies have found ways to stuff their pads so that the flaps of their pads stay up to create even more blocking surface

How big are you, 6' 180 pounds (I guess based on an average human size) why on earth would you wear 38" pads other than to cover more space? Why do the pads need to be square, when the Human body is not? Why do the pads need to extend beyond the body?

Why does JS Giguere who is smaller than Marty Broduer (I would say it is pretty widely accepted that he is one of the best goalies of this era) need to wear bigger pads than Broduer?

I'll answer this one, because he is not as good and bigger pads make him that good, not only is that not fair to the game it is not fair to Broduer.

I want the instigator rule gone, I want 10 minutes of 4-4 OT, I want lots of rules changed, but they are not needs or wants of the NHL!

Edited by Opie

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I agree with an earlier poster that stated that the pads should be appropriate to the size of the goalie. We don't need bigger nets or more scoring. It's not uncommon for a game to have 5+ goals in it. Bigger nets would bring football type scores to the game. If you're going to do that, you may as well tell pitchers in baseball to throw the ball slower and directly over the plate so you can have more homeruns and higher scores. Same with soccer - goalies can't be over 4 foot tall. If your going to do anything shrink the pads some but don't make the nets bigger. J.S. may have to down grade from a kingsize mattress to full size but that's the breaks.

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That is definitely your opinion, and seeing as you are a goalie I would consider it a biased opinion. But to tell you the truth this decision has nothing to do with your opinion or mine. The league is trying to expand its' audience, and most Americans want to see scoring, not great defensive plays, yeah the occasional brilliant save will make highlight reels, and people will ohh and ahh for a little bit. But the overall goal from the lockout has been developing a brand of hockey that will appeal to a broader audience and a game that is faster paced and more offensive than the current product. Hence all of the changes.

Also it is not that the pads are SO BIG that they block out the sun, but a lot of goalies use pads that are way to big for them and hockey pants that would fit Andre the Giant let a lone a skinny pencil necked 6'2" 185 netminder.

I was at a Manchester Monarchs game and the goalie's pants were so big (How big were they, lol) that their was at least 8 inches of spare room around the waste of the pants. Goalies have purposely gone out and got the biggest pads and pants they can fit under the rules, it is not about getting equipment that fits them or is safer, it is about covering as much space as possible.

And as a goalie I hope you understand the principal of angles, and that if a goalie is in his crease and covers, lets say for the sake of argument, 70% of the net. If that goalie takes one step off of his line in a direct angle towards the puck he covers more of the net. Goalie pads extend far past the edge of the leg, ribs, arms, and shoulders. Some goalies have found ways to stuff their pads so that the flaps of their pads stay up to create even more blocking surface

How big are you, 6' 180 pounds (I guess based on an average human size) why on earth would you wear 38" pads other than to cover more space? Why do the pads need to be square, when the Human body is not? Why do the pads need to extend beyond the body?

Why does JS Giguere who is smaller than Marty Broduer (I would say it is pretty widely accepted that he is one of the best goalies of this era) need to wear bigger pads than Broduer?

I'll answer this one, because he is not as good and bigger pads make him that good, not only is that not fair to the game it is not fair to Broduer.

I want the instigator rule gone, I want 10 minutes of 4-4 OT, I want lots of rules changed, but they are not needs or wants of the NHL!

Biased? Angles? Youve never played goalie so i see your answer as biased. Beause if you were a goalie you would know that the size of the pads dont matter on how many goals are scored....its the skills of the goalie.

Oh hey...Im watching Caps vs Bruins...whats the score? six to zore in the first period. NHL needs more scoring? Ha. You guys are crazy. The game has been changed too much already this would be crossing the line.

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Biased? Angles? Youve never played goalie so i see your answer as biased. Beause if you were a goalie you would know that the size of the pads dont matter on how many goals are scored....its the skills of the goalie.

Oh hey...Im watching Caps vs Bruins...whats the score? six to zore in the first period. NHL needs more scoring? Ha. You guys are crazy. The game has been changed too much already this would be crossing the line.

Crossing the line? Do you have the NHL network? Check out some classic NHL and tell me if the goalie's pads are as big as they wear today.

You can't tell me that the size of the pads don't make a difference. Watch Giguere, or Patrick Roy when he was playing in the mid 90's and you will see that they barely even move to make a stop. Also pay close attention to where the puck hits them. In the chest= goo sound positioning. Off the outer edge of their shoulder or defelcting off the edge of a trapper = oversized equipment,

You calling us crazy is rich. You already admitted that you play or played goalie, so you've already announced to us that you are crazy.

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Biased? Angles? Youve never played goalie so i see your answer as biased. Beause if you were a goalie you would know that the size of the pads dont matter on how many goals are scored....its the skills of the goalie.

Oh hey...Im watching Caps vs Bruins...whats the score? six to zore in the first period. NHL needs more scoring? Ha. You guys are crazy. The game has been changed too much already this would be crossing the line.

this would be changing the game back.

It's going to be bigger nets or smaller pads. Personally I'd rather they put the pads back closer to how they used to be.

Obviously skill of the goalie has a lot to do with it. You can't put huge pads on anyone and suddenly they'd be a great goalie. But it's fairly obvious how larger pads on a good goalie are going to help.

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NHL does not need more scoring thats for sure. Last game I just wathced score was 10-2. So whats your logic on getting smaller pads? Whats the reason for it? Because back in the day goalies had small pads so it should be like that again? Hey back in the day goalies didnt wear helmets either...nhl should ban goalie helmets now because it takes up too much room. :rolleyes: Thats how silly this is to me.

And Patty Roy? Possible one of the greatest goaltenders of our generation and your saying his pads were too big? Plleeeaasee. Roy was a big guy...the pads fit him fine. And you keep on bringing up Giguere. His pads are normal size...but they look big so lets just say they are and lets say thats why he stops the puck. No.

Gigueres stance is making it seem like he has big pads...its actually pretty good cause he makes himself look bigger than he is. From video it looks like he gets real low and bends forward pretty much making the top of his pads touch his chest...but when he stands up the pads are perfect size. He makes himself seem bigger...its not his pads people. Broduer could do that and make it seem like his pads are bigger than what they are.

Yes the size of the pads make a diffrence but not as big as a diffrence as you making it out to seem. Carbon fiber sticks make a diffrence and skates as light as a feather make a diffrence...but only very little. Its the same way with goalies.

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I live in SoCAL so I get all the ducks games on fox sports. At one point during the game vs the sens last night, the color commentator mentioned the goalie pads and how GMs were looking to make new rule changes for them. They then continued to show a clip of Gerber making a save, followed by a comment of how Doug Weight could have scored that goal had Gerber been wearing smaller pads. He then continue to remark how big Gerber looks for a guy wearing oversized pads.

I basically puked all over myself.

Who the f*** has the nerve to call Gerber out on over sized pads when the team you announce for has huge s*** Gigure between the pipes.

God damn i hate duck announcers, I hate Gigure who is basically cheating by strapping two midgets covered in pads to each of his shins, and I hate that damn pennywise song "bro hymm" they play every time they score a freakin goal. WOOOOOOOO oohhh OHHHH ohhhhhhh. Drives me insane. How can fans like that? They have been playing it for every single damn goal for 3 seasons now.

Someone needs to murder every duck fan and player besides Selanne.

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In honor of Opie's recent spelunking past page two of the forums...

story

not sure of his source though

And Patty Roy? Possible one of the greatest goaltenders of our generation and your saying his pads were too big? Plleeeaasee. Roy was a big guy...the pads fit him fine. And you keep on bringing up Giguere. His pads are normal size...but they look big so lets just say they are and lets say thats why he stops the puck. No.

Yes the size of the pads make a diffrence but not as big as a diffrence as you making it out to seem. Carbon fiber sticks make a diffrence and skates as light as a feather make a diffrence...but only very little. Its the same way with goalies.

Actually Roy said that pads need to shrink... after he retired of course ;)

Sticks and skates = smaller and lighter

pads = larger and lighter

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:ranting: Forwards job=to score and skate fast, Goalies job=to save shots, so why exactly would they make the equipment smaller? What reason would there be exactly? :ranting: Speaking of watching games on NHL Network, bothered much watching a game that WASN'T between the 1988 Edmonton Oilers and the 1974 Golden Seals? I didn't think so. Yeah, Jacques Plante's pads were smaller, but the games were still 1-0 and 2-1. So what's the point? Everyone has adapted to excel. Shooters are better, so are goalies. This "the equipment makes the save, not the goalie" argument is seeded by Bettman's cronies and the media and ignorant fans eat it up, it's quite similar to typical American politics these days. :ranting: Just because there are not as many goalies as nongoalies, that is the only reason that they are constantly overpowered, both in opinion and by action.

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Guest QuackQuack

Changing the nets would be as radical as changing the rinks to international size or allowing aluminum bats in the MLB.

And to any of you goalie apologist's, if you guys use the words "Synergys" or "Comp-o-sit" then its obvious that you only parrot your opinion from Mickey Redmond and Ken Daniels.

Log off the computer and join a mens league. Watch the guys who have fast, hard shots. Even if they're using an OPS they could still replicate that shot with wood. Picking up an OPS doesn't automatically add 30MPH to your wrist shot and it doesn't send your slap shot into the 150MPH range.

Hell, Al Iafrate was hitting 100MPH+ with wood. Bobby Hull was also clocked at 120.

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:ranting: Forwards job=to score and skate fast, Goalies job=to save shots, so why exactly would they make the equipment smaller? What reason would there be exactly? :ranting: Speaking of watching games on NHL Network, bothered much watching a game that WASN'T between the 1988 Edmonton Oilers and the 1974 Golden Seals? I didn't think so. Yeah, Jacques Plante's pads were smaller, but the games were still 1-0 and 2-1. So what's the point? Everyone has adapted to excel. Shooters are better, so are goalies. This "the equipment makes the save, not the goalie" argument is seeded by Bettman's cronies and the media and ignorant fans eat it up, it's quite similar to typical American politics these days. :ranting: Just because there are not as many goalies as nongoalies, that is the only reason that they are constantly overpowered, both in opinion and by action.

Nice way to dredge up a dead thread, but to respond, I have never seen a game between the 88 Oilers and the 74 Golden Seals on the NHL network. I had no idea that they could play a game between teams that were 14 years apart, but I will keep my eyes peeled for that one.

Just where does your anger come from here? Yes. Goalie pads have been increasing in size for the past couple decades. It is hard to tell whether the goalies got better or not.

Why don't we put them in the size pads that Plante and Sawchuk used to wear and find out for sure?

Just what is it that they are afraid of?

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Hurrah for a future when goalies' GPAs will hit an average of 6-7.

Goals are supposed to be something you work hard to achieve. If I wanted to see easy, constant scoring I'd watch basketball.

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Nice way to dredge up a dead thread,

Sorry, that was me that dredged after reading this story

1. Limit freezing the puck by goaltenders (a 90% chance of implementation)

2. Eliminate the trapezoid behind the goalie (60%)

3. Change the size of goaltender equipment (80%)

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Hurrah for a future when goalies' GPAs will hit an average of 6-7.

Goals are supposed to be something you work hard to achieve. If I wanted to see easy, constant scoring I'd watch basketball.

Now wait a minute, here!

The goalie apologists here say that smaller pads won't change the GAA because these guys are so damn good! How is it that you think that GAA would go to 6 or 7?

Even during the crazy 80's the GAA for the Vezina-winning goaltender never got above 3.5- and you guys keep saying that the goalies nowadays are much better athletes and better goaltenders, positionally than those guys ever were.

I'm not saying that they have to play in the same pads they used 20 years ago, but having them approaching the same size would be a great start. Of course they will be made of new fabrics, so they will be lighter weight, yet more protective of the goalie. They will also allow them a bettr freedome of movement.

I saw in an article (can't remember exactly where) that if they shrunk the goalie equipment by one-half of an inch in all directions, that it would make 2.3 square feet of net available where a goalie used to be. (for non-US and Britain, that is shrinking the equipment by about 125mm in all directions, making about 2000 square cm open for shooting).

That's quite a lot of net that opens up for the puck to hit, but it really isn't a large change in the size of the pads.

I love an incredible save as much or more than the next guy, but there aren't anywhere near the number of those kind of saves in the games today as there was even 10 years ago.

Much of the excitement in hockey is knowing that someone can score at any time and seeing the goalie squash it. The feeling now, though, is that they have very little chance to score, and the goalie usually beats himself.

In 1981, the average goals scored per game in the NHL was 8.03. In 1998, it was 5.27, and in 2006 (the last time I can find the total because I need to go to bed) we were up to just over 6 per game.

I grew up watching hockey in the late 70s and 80s. The game was much more exciting.

Come to the Dark Side... we have cookies!

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In 1981, the average goals scored per game in the NHL was 8.03. In 1998, it was 5.27, and in 2006 (the last time I can find the total because I need to go to bed) we were up to just over 6 per game.

Come to the Dark Side... we have cookies!

Regular Season GPG + / -

2007-2008 5.59 -0.30

2006-2007 5.89 -0.28

2005-2006 6.17 +1.03

Lockout

Why is it a little streamlining has to knee jerk to double digit goals per game?

Edit: I'm here where's the cookies?

Edited by vangvace

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I'm talking more about larger nets than streamlined equipment. But all of it is yet more of Bettman's mantra of 'more goals, more goals, more freaking goals'. Next he'll probably be pushing to make the butterfly a penalty-causing infringement. I love nothing more than a good goalie battle or a multiple-overtime playoff game (more so than these ridiculous 8-6 goal-every-five-minutes kind of games), and those games are pretty much never going to happen anymore because you're going to have way more net and way less goalie.

Edited by Cern

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I'm talking more about larger nets than streamlined equipment. But all of it is yet more of Bettman's mantra of 'more goals, more goals, more freaking goals'. Next he'll probably be pushing to make the butterfly a penalty-causing infringement. I love nothing more than a good goalie battle or a multiple-overtime playoff game (more so than these ridiculous 8-6 goal-every-five-minutes kind of games), and those games are pretty much never going to happen anymore because you're going to have way more net and way less goalie.

That is your opinion and while you are totally entitled to it, and I do enjoy a well played goalie dual. However, that opinion is not shared by most non-hockey fans, you may not see that as a problem but if you wish to continue to root for the Red Wings and have your children root for them, the NHL needs a bigger fan base. What sells in America, scoring.

I know a lot of you are going to say Bettman is trying to turn the game into basketball, which by the way is a ridiculous argument to make.

If I am not mistaken haven't there been a few (to say the least) 6,7,8,9, and yes even 10 goal games this year, granted in almost all of those the other team had 2 so the games weren't that exciting.

Look at all sports, even Football, they have embraced offense because chicks dig the long ball. Do you think if the average American fan loved Defense and shutouts, Baseball players would have been allowed(by MLB) to use Steroids.

Shrinking the Goalies pads a couple of inches is not going to be catastrophic, OMG they are going to make everyone use 35" pads like Marty Broduer.

BTW: Just because I am an equal opportunity a-hole, anyone in this thread calling for the shrinking of pads and calling out Jiggy better not be the same posters that are posting about how great Ryan Miller is, his pads are not that much smaller!

AND I HAVE BEEN WITH THE DARK SIDE SINCE CONCEPTION, YET I GET NO COOKIES!!!!

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BTW: Just because I am an equal opportunity a-hole, anyone in this thread calling for the shrinking of pads and calling out Jiggy better not be the same posters that are posting about how great Ryan Miller is, his pads are not that much smaller!

AND I HAVE BEEN WITH THE DARK SIDE SINCE CONCEPTION, YET I GET NO COOKIES!!!!

Speaking of Miller, isn't he a UFA this summer? It'd be nice to have him backing up Ozzie if Hasek retires.

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That is your opinion and while you are totally entitled to it, and I do enjoy a well played goalie dual. However, that opinion is not shared by most non-hockey fans, you may not see that as a problem but if you wish to continue to root for the Red Wings and have your children root for them, the NHL needs a bigger fan base. What sells in America, scoring.

I know a lot of you are going to say Bettman is trying to turn the game into basketball, which by the way is a ridiculous argument to make.

If I am not mistaken haven't there been a few (to say the least) 6,7,8,9, and yes even 10 goal games this year, granted in almost all of those the other team had 2 so the games weren't that exciting.

Look at all sports, even Football, they have embraced offense because chicks dig the long ball. Do you think if the average American fan loved Defense and shutouts, Baseball players would have been allowed(by MLB) to use Steroids.

Shrinking the Goalies pads a couple of inches is not going to be catastrophic, OMG they are going to make everyone use 35" pads like Marty Broduer.

BTW: Just because I am an equal opportunity a-hole, anyone in this thread calling for the shrinking of pads and calling out Jiggy better not be the same posters that are posting about how great Ryan Miller is, his pads are not that much smaller!

AND I HAVE BEEN WITH THE DARK SIDE SINCE CONCEPTION, YET I GET NO COOKIES!!!!

Excellent post!

I'm a diehard hockey fan and I desperately want to see more goals. But more than that, I want to see a wider variety of goals. Every goal today is the same; screen, rebound, tip. If we're going to get 10 of those a game, then I'll pass. What I want to see is more goals like Phaneuf's last night. A beautifully ripped slapshot from the wing.

On top of that, I want to see goals where a good scorer can beat a goalie clean from about 15 feet out.

Scoring zones that existed for nearly 80 years are dead. Now, you can only score from 4 feet around the crease. And while defensive systems have hurt scoring so have inflated goalie gear. I'd much rather see the league taper goalies than implement illegal defenses.

And as far as I can tell, you have to be legally retarded to think that goalie equipment has to be the size of Giguere's, Luongo's or Millers to be safe. Brodeur has proven everyone who thinks that wrong for the past 14 years.

Pants don't have to be 14 sizes too big; leg pads don't have to be up to your waist; a belly pad doesn't have to hang 10" below the waist or stick out 18" from the stomach and shoulder pads certainly don't have to protrude up to your ears.

Shave 'em down and give shooters a chance to score from areas that went extinct 10 years ago.

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Look at all sports, even Football, they have embraced offense because chicks dig the long ball. Do you think if the average American fan loved Defense and shutouts, Baseball players would have been allowed(by MLB) to use Steroids.

ie, it's yet more rule changes indirectly geared towards making these ridiculous 'non-traditional' markets pay attention to hockey in places where uber-offensive sports (like football) are king. Which isn't going to happen regardless, hockey is still a joke to most people down there, and the fact that we even HAVE franchises that far south in the first place is ridiculous. Fair enough to standardize the equipment a little better, but when you're inflating the size of the net what the hell is the point of the goalie anymore? It'll just wind up being more weak, flukey, trashy goals that aren't entertaining to watch purely for the sake of a couple numbers on a score sheet. If it goes through, in a few years the term 'sniper' is going to be replaced with 'shotgun'.

Edited by Cern

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CERN,

You and I are 100% on the same page with the nets. I think that is a horrible idea, but the changes the league is talking about is inches not feet.

Your posts make it seem like you think the pads will shrink 8-10 inches a piece or that all of the sudden it will be a soccer net behind the goalie.

I am not sure why some of you think that these changes are all of the sudden going to make the average hockey game 10-8.

This will probably add 2 goals at most to the ave scoring of a game. We will start to notice inflated offensive stats, a little, but you are talking about shaving 2-4 inches off of the width of their padding, trimming the shoulder pads back down to some where below the ears, chest protectors pulled in somwhere near the ribcage, and pants that would fit some one smaller than Andre the Giant.

Now I am not saying some goalies don't have these pads already, Broduer, Conklin (I mention his name simply because the other night I noticed he had really small pads for a young goalie), and others, I am not saying because Jiggy has big pads he will suck with smaller pads either.

What I am saying is that their are certain spots (the slot comes to mind) that have disappeared from the game. Z's goal in St. Louis (I believe, the one timer he got from Dats recently) Z had to score on a one timer from a spot that used to be a place where a well aimed wrister was cash money! Now if it isn't a one timer or a rebound you are not scoring from the slot.

The reasons for this, inflated goalie gear and MOST IMPACTFUL TEAM DEFENSIVE STYLE!

However the league has tried to eliminate the trap, not succesful, the league realizes (I think, no proof) that no matter what rules they make a coach will find a way to stack his D so that the middle of the offensive zone is like rush hour traffic in LA, JAMMED!

Edited by Opie

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For anyone that still feels sorry for goalies watch this video:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/player/index.html...bject=686918939

Note where Kay Whitmore talks about how some (ie Giguere) add loops and tape so that their chest protectors pop up to protect more net, not body.

Or how the new goalie pads have greatly reduced the amount 5-hole goals.

Or my personal favorite, a former goalie wearing 2 jocks. One to protect his junk and the other to prop up his chest protector when in the butterfly position.

Wow! All of these 'tricks' sure help keep the nets, <cough> I mean goalies safer!

Goalies are cheating and even other goalies are calling them out.

Something has to be done. The pendulum has swung too far in their favor.

Edited by Hank

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For anyone that still feels sorry for goalies watch this video:

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/player/index.html...bject=686918939

Note where Kay Whitmore talks about how some (ie Giguere) add loops and tape so that their chest protectors pop up to protect more net, not body.

Or how the new goalie pads have greatly reduced the amount 5-hole goals.

Or my personal favorite, a former goalie wearing 2 jocks. One to protect his junk and the other to prop up his chest protector when in the butterfly position.

Wow! All of these 'tricks' sure help keep the nets, <cough> I mean goalies safer!

Goalies are cheating and even other goalies are calling them out.

Something has to be done. The pendulum has swung too far in their favor.

I though two jocks was standard?

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