Yellowknife Redwing 57 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I think by this point we can all agree that Pavel has grown into one of the best 2-way players in the game, but this year is Pavel:Selke as Nick:Norris? Pav is the leading forward in the NHL for plus/minus, 7th overall in points, 3rd overall in assists, leads the league in takeaways by a gargantuan margine...what other "defensive forward" can compete with Datsyuk's overwhelming numbers and defensive presence? How big a factor will PK time be in the selection of the recipient this year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
irishtemper14+25 11 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 the only other defensive forward to compete is Z but yea i would like to see lids for norris and dats for selke and byng, plus babs for jack adams Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nero 20 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 What about Datsyuk getting the Selke AND the Lady Byng? That would be cool ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vladiator 116 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I think that take away Dats had the resulted in his open net goal last game just about says it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kira 451 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I've been advocating this for a long time. Look at the year Kris Draper won it. Were his stats any better than Pasha's? I seriously doubt it. I think he's got a legitimate argument for being nominated, and an even better argument for winning it. I am all in favor of this one...Pasha deserves to win the Selkie and the Lady Byng both. And when is the last time we had a three-peat on the Lady Byng? I think it's been a while...this will be the year it happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I almost think Datsyuk has TOO many points to be a Selke winner. Seems like the past few years, the nominees have been third line slacks who barely manages 30 points on the season. Not sure this is the same award Fedorov won some 10 years ago. I think its morphed into some sort of hard hat trophy, and Datsyuk doesnt fit that profile. But...thats not to say he doesnt deserve it. Id love to see it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jamaica Jon 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I wish the Selke had a clause is its description: "The Best Defensive Forward... that also excels in the offensive aspect of the game". I mean sure there are defensive specialists, and that's great. I love guys like Draper and Maltby just as much as the next guy, but I think this would be a much better award (not to mention Dats and Zetterberg would win it a lot more) with the added exception. If they don't do this, perhaps they could create a new award? Best All-Around Forward? or something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest YzermanForever19 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Personally, I'll be shocked if Datsyuk doesn't win the Selke. The guy does what no other player in the NHL can consistently do. And he's got about 40+ more takeaways than any other player in the league. He's in a class of his own. He's got to be a lock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 He's been a lock for a while now... To think that during his contract "negotiations" some posters on this board were saying absurd things like "Datsyuk may be a good hockey player but not in the NHL" As I said then, he's an elite NHL'er... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rice 42 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I almost think Datsyuk has TOO many points to be a Selke winner. Seems like the past few years, the nominees have been third line slacks who barely manages 30 points on the season. Not sure this is the same award Fedorov won some 10 years ago. I think its morphed into some sort of hard hat trophy, and Datsyuk doesnt fit that profile. But...thats not to say he doesnt deserve it. Id love to see it. Brind'Amour has won it the last two years, putting up 70 and 82 points those two seasons. I wish the Selke had a clause is its description: "The Best Defensive Forward... that also excels in the offensive aspect of the game". I mean sure there are defensive specialists, and that's great. I love guys like Draper and Maltby just as much as the next guy, but I think this would be a much better award (not to mention Dats and Zetterberg would win it a lot more) with the added exception. If they don't do this, perhaps they could create a new award? Best All-Around Forward? or something? I think the NHL needs to do something about the ambiguity of the award. For example, Pahlsson is probably the best shut down forward in the league right now. Now I know he's not going to win this year but that's not my point. Most will say a forward's main duty is to score, but this isn't true when it comes to the third and fourth lines. Draper isn't out there to score. Sure, offense is nice, but Draper's role is to shut down opposing forwards. Datsyuk's role is to score and he's becoming nearly equally adept at shutting down the opposition's offense. However, Pahlsson is probably better defensively than Datsyuk -- but he doesn't score nearly as much. This is because his role is solely shut-down center. Nothing else. When the NHL says "best defensive forward" does it mean the forward who plays the best defense? Or should other aspects of their game be taken into account? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b.shanafan14 733 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I think that take away Dats had the resulted in his open net goal last game just about says it all. I agree, I've never watched and re-watched an empty netter highlight as much as that one. Just classic Dats making a grown man look like a little kid by stealing the puck nearly effortlessly. You can see at one point the Blues player starts to move up ice and its like Pav smells blood and just attacks... Datsyuk for Selke for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Brind'Amour has won it the last two years, putting up 70 and 82 points those two seasons. And thats why I said 1) that the nominees are often third line slacks. Pahlson (26 points and -4) and Pandolfo (27 points and -5) were the other nominees, and 2) why I said the Selke has become a "hard hat trophy", a profile which Rod fits to a T, and Datsyuk doesnt, regardless of how hard Datsyuk works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dicksmack 33 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Arice, you're right, Pahlsson is the best def. forward in the game but he's not having a good year at -3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kira 451 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 One thing that might weigh in Pasha's favor is the fact that he hasn't missed a game so far this season. That might be a good omen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellowknife Redwing 57 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I guess my interpretation of the Selke has a lot to do with defensive play contingent on offensive play. Take for instance that Ilya Kovalchuck has 45 goals (2nd place) and is a -12; if your superstar is performing like this, he is a liability, no matter how many goals he puts in the net. Dats has that much offensive prowess AND he's a +33, which indicates that he's also defensively adept and responsible. Add in the takeaway count and I think he's got it in spades. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Seriously I don't know how people can be so confident of this. The Selke award is way too hard to judge. There are no locks. Datsyuk is to Selke as Lidstrom is to Norris. You're kidding me yeah? There are many better defensive forwards than Datsyuk. Players that actually shut down the other teams best players. Pavel's role is not to stop players like Thornton, Iginla, Getzlaf, Gaborik, etc. We've watched massive improvement from Datsyuk in his defensive game. However, he's no Fedorov... yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kira 451 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 No, he's not. He never will be. But it's comparing apples to oranges. And you need to stop doing that. They are two different, separate people...neither one is the same as the other. Pasha has the potential to be better than Fedorov ever was. Give him a break and stop comparing them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 Seriously I don't know how people can be so confident of this. The Selke award is way too hard to judge. There are no locks. Datsyuk is to Selke as Lidstrom is to Norris. You're kidding me yeah? There are many better defensive forwards than Datsyuk. Players that actually shut down the other teams best players. Pavel's role is not to stop players like Thornton, Iginla, Getzlaf, Gaborik, etc. We've watched massive improvement from Datsyuk in his defensive game. However, he's no Fedorov... yet. Actually, Pavel is often used in a shutdown role, especially when he and Hank are on the same line. Babcock plays 1st line against 1st line cause Dats and Hank are so good defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 The only think that Datsyuk lacks is shot blocking ability, that is often criticized because, well, he won't get infront of shots. But there is no one else I'd like as a back checker on my team, that's for sure. I also don't like his one on one abilities though, only because I think watching Lidstrom night in and not out being one of the best one one one defenders spoils my perceptions of other players lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCfan1340 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 The only think that Datsyuk lacks is shot blocking ability, that is often criticized because, well, he won't get infront of shots. But there is no one else I'd like as a back checker on my team, that's for sure. I also don't like his one on one abilities though, only because I think watching Lidstrom night in and not out being one of the best one one one defenders spoils my perceptions of other players lol I'm not saying that Datsyuk is great at blocking shots... but he does lead all forwards on the team with 38, the next closest is Fil with 25. I think as a group our forwards just don't do a lot of shot blocking. I always say that Datsyuk plays the "that's my puck" game. He just decides it's his and goes and gets it. You can see the opposing players trying to get rid of the puck quicker when Datsyuk is comming. Durring the 2nd period on the pk, he lost the draw and followed the nashville player behind the net and out of the zone before forcing him to turn around.... they made a couple of passes in their own end to get away from him, then pass the puck up to one of the forwards who came back to help, and Datsyuk just skated up to him and took the puck. I was laughing so hard because they knew he was going to try to steal the puck but even though they did all they could to prevent it, he still ended up with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SnipeShow 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 I don't know about any trophies or awards, but I'd say Pav and Hank are probably the best two-way forwards in the game. They are up at the top of the list anyways. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 I can't see neither Z or Dats getting recognition, unfortunately. It will probably go to Fisher this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeBleedRed 8 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 where is a site that shows giveaways/takeaways Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 where is a site that shows giveaways/takeaways Takeaways - http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=2...rtssPlayerStats Giveaways - http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=2...rtssPlayerStats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WeBleedRed 8 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 thank you. did a search on nhl.com, didn't see it Takeaways - http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=2...rtssPlayerStats Giveaways - http://www.nhl.com/nhlstats/app?fetchKey=2...rtssPlayerStats Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
