10 Greatest Red Wing Defensemen Of All Time.

[therock48880 14]

#2? Absolutely no friggin' way. When you look at what other guys actually accomplished, there's no way you can put Vladdy above them. At the absolute, most generous, highest arguable place, Vladdy's #5. Tops. Sure, he was a beast. For six years, he was a very, very good defenseman, and belongs on the top ten list, no doubt. But I think sentiment and dreamy oh-what-could-have-beens are elevating his status higher than it should be.

What Vladdy did for six years does not overshadow what Kelly did for 12 or what Goodfellow did for 14.

Then you wouldn't put Gale Sayers as one of the top running backs of all time? Personally, I have him at number 3, behind Barry and Jim Brown. Sayers played 5 seasons, Vladdy played 6.

In your final line, I would argue that Vladdy was GETTING better when he got hurt. Had he stayed healthy, he would have been the best, imo. Plus, the whole "generational" arguments are impossible to debate. Would Kelly and Goodfellow have been as good if they had played against the bigger, faster players using composite sticks? Who knows? Personally, I doubt it. But if you ask me to choose one Red Wings D-man to have for a season, I'd take Vladdy. He was very sound positionally, mean, and very skilled.

Edited April 1, 2008 by therock48880

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I like a lot of these picks but I'm going to play devil's advocate on those who put Coffey on their top ten list. Sure he was probably the second best offensive defensemen of all time and a definite HoF player, but was he really that good in Detroit? I remember thinking that he was somewhat of a liability on defense compared to some of the other D men that played with him.

Didn't he win the Norris in Detroit?

[eva unit zero 271]

This is a very difficult topic. You have to include guys like Lidstrom, Kelly, Stewart, and Goodfellow. They were all elite players in their day. Past that, you have to consider the guys who were among the best defensemen in the league in their primes, and spent their primes with the Wings. This includes Konstantinov, Chiasson, Pronovost, Reed Larson, and Flash Hollett. After that, we have to think about guys who were Norris-contending defensemen as a Wing outside of their prime. This brings up Chelios, Coffey, and Larry Murphy, among others.

So what do we have?

1) Nicklas Lidstrom

2) Red Kelly

3) Jack Stewart

4) Ebbie Goodfellow

5) Marcel Pronovost

6) Vladimir Konstantinov

7) Steve Chiasson

8) Flash Hollett

9) Reed Larson

10) Chris Chelios

[therock48880 14]

Didn't he win the Norris in Detroit?

Yup. 94-95 season. I think that was his third Norris.

Edit: it was his third Norris. First and last with the Wings. The norris seems to be biased toward offensive d-men. For example in 96-97 when Leetch beat out Konstantinov in an absolute highway robbery.

Edited April 1, 2008 by therock48880

[norrisnick 1]

Didn't he win the Norris in Detroit?

Because he finished top 10 in scoring. He was essentially a roving forward that year (as well as the rest of his career).

[therock48880 14]

Because he finished top 10 in scoring. He was essentially a roving forward that year (as well as the rest of his career).

Remember how badly Scotty hated him due to his lack of defensive effort?

[HomeNugget 2]

No Paul Coffey?

paul coffey wasn't a defenseman, he was an extra center.

[norrisnick 1]

Remember how badly Scotty hated him due to his lack of defensive effort?

Wasn't the first time Scotty had Coffey moved and won the cup the following spring.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Then you wouldn't put Gale Sayers as one of the top running backs of all time? Personally, I have him at number 3, behind Barry and Jim Brown. Sayers played 5 seasons, Vladdy played 6.

Hellz no I wouldn't. Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson....I'd place a lot of dudes in front of Gale Sayers. I think, if you're talking about "greatest" lists, five or six years isn't enough. Sayers could have been astronomically great. But I value consistency and longevity quite a bit, and when you stack up what Sayers accomplished against what other running backs accomplished, it just doesn't add up. Sayers might make the bottom of the list if I were to compile a top ten, but I'd include all the above over Sayers, and probably Jerome Bettis, Tony Dorsett, Marshall Faulk, and even Thurman Thomas above Gale Sayers.

But if you ask me to choose one Red Wings D-man to have for a season, I'd take Vladdy.

That is a fair way to put it, though I'd take Lidstrom. It's part of the reason I did give Vladdy consideration and put him on my list. But when we talk about "top-ten all-time", first off I almost completely disregard any question of trying to figure out how a player from two generations ago would perform in today's game, because it's not fair. Ebbie Goodfellow was one of the very best players of his time, that's all I need to know. And second, as I said, I definitely value longevity and consistency.

[zombiewing 3]

paul coffey wasn't a defenseman, he was an extra center.

I agree. He was a great fit for the run and gun era, and one of the best skaters. But he was a product of the time.

[miller76 463]

1. Andreas Lilja

2. Maxim Kuznetsov

3. Yan Golubovsky

4. Cory Cross

5. Uwe Krupp

6. Dmitry Bykov

7. Jesse Wallin

8. Anders Eriksson

9. Brett Lebda

10. Brad Norton

That just shows you that size isn't everything. The top 5 in my list were pretty much the largest Wings in recent memory, yet with the exception of PAIN TRAIN, they were complete panzies.

Cory Cross???????? lmfao, my balls hurt from laughing at your post! thanks.

[therock48880 14]

Hellz no I wouldn't. Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Emmitt Smith, Eric Dickerson....I'd place a lot of dudes in front of Gale Sayers. I think, if you're talking about "greatest" lists, five or six years isn't enough.

And second, as I said, I definitely value longevity and consistency.

Well, there lies our disagreement. Most "experts" (I'm certainly not including myself in that list) rate Sayers as one of the top 5 of all time and I tend to agree.

Vladdy's situation was a little different in that his injuries didn't come from playing the game. His longevity was compromised by a car accident. He was 100% healthy and appeared to be getting better when his injuries occured. I can understand penalizing someone for not being able to stay healthy playing their game, for example Sayers, but Vladdy never got hurt playing hockey. He was strong, durable, and dependable.

[kevotron 3]

How could you all forget the great Wings All-Star (at least in 1983) Willie "hit em' with your purse" Huber?!

[Konnan511 1,736]

Anyone one think Kronners and Rafs could crack the top ten in the next ten years?

[WingFanInOilCountry 0]

Anyone one think Kronners and Rafs could crack the top ten in the next ten years?

If Kronners can avoid the injury bug then he defiantly has the potential. It'll be interesting how Rafi preforms once St. Nick is gone.

On a side note, I still have a Hatcher Wings jersey. What a foolish purchase that was.

edit: spelling

Edited April 1, 2008 by WingFanInOilCountry

[betterREDthandead 58]

Anyone one think Kronners and Rafs could crack the top ten in the next ten years?

We'll see if Rafalski stays a Wing long enough. He'd probably have to sign another contract. Kronwall, I don't really see him passing the top 8 on my list but I could definitely see him giving me a reason to make him a solid #9, moving past all those other guys I listed.

[egroen 384]

A lot of people underrate Chelios in Detroit... but this guy was winning Norrises in one of the most competitive time periods ever for defencemen.

Along with Fetisov, Lidstrom and Kelly - Chelios is probably a top ten defensemen of all time.

Edited May 12, 2008 by egroen

[therock48880 14]

#2? Absolutely no friggin' way. When you look at what other guys actually accomplished, there's no way you can put Vladdy above them. At the absolute, most generous, highest arguable place, Vladdy's #5. Tops. Sure, he was a beast. For six years, he was a very, very good defenseman, and belongs on the top ten list, no doubt. But I think sentiment and dreamy oh-what-could-have-beens are elevating his status higher than it should be.

What Vladdy did for six years does not overshadow what Kelly did for 12 or what Goodfellow did for 14.

Ted Lindsay says Vladdy was the best PLAYER in the world and possibly the greatest of all-time.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...METRO/805120407

[union drone 0]

#2? Absolutely no friggin' way. When you look at what other guys actually accomplished, there's no way you can put Vladdy above them. At the absolute, most generous, highest arguable place, Vladdy's #5. Tops. Sure, he was a beast. For six years, he was a very, very good defenseman, and belongs on the top ten list, no doubt. But I think sentiment and dreamy oh-what-could-have-beens are elevating his status higher than it should be.

What Vladdy did for six years does not overshadow what Kelly did for 12 or what Goodfellow did for 14.

Speaking of which, why is it that Kelly or Goodfellow are never considered for the short list of guys who should have their numbers in the rafters?

I know that Kelly left on not-so-good terms, but that was mostly due to Jack Adams blowing up at him... which is the same reason why Lindsay was shipped off to Chicago.