Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

WAYYYYYYYY too much time between games...LOL

I cant wait until Saturday night...when we can talk about actual hockey...and not:

Pens have never seen a team like US

Wings have never played a team like US

Pens have never played our Norris and Selke winners

Wings have never seen a top 2 lines like ours

Bottom line?

NEITHER TEAM HAS SEEN THE OTHER...AT ALL!!!!!

LMAO

God...please...get here Saturday....PLEASE????

[pits200 0]

I would say that the gap between Pittsburgh's offense and Detroit's defense is much smaller than that between Pittsburgh's defense and Detroit's offense. Lidstrom squaring up against Malkin seems a lot less lopsided than Datsyuk vs. Gill.

Not really fair that you compare that you take your best defensemen vs our best player.

But then to make your point more glaring, you take our 3rd best defensemen vs your best player.

Thats one thing I've noticed on here, people always skewing figures to benefit their team.

But overall, this forum is well run and many of you wing fans are very knowledgable. MUCH BETTER THAN THE FLYERS FORUMS!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I'm late in replying to this conversation, but I'll throw in my 2 cents, and vouch for Eva.

That's what I was wondering.

Eva, you don't even have the correct lines for Detroit. You seem to know Pittsburgh better.

Eva absolutely has the correct lines for Detroit. There's no way in hell the Wings "second line" (Sammy-Filppula-Cleary) can match up with Pittsburgh's. They'd do a lot of damage against that line even with Kronwall and Stuart playing D. What Eva is saying is that at home Babs will get the matchups he wants, which will mean pinning Detroit's 1st line against Pittsburgh's 1st line, and then matching up our shutdown line against Pittsburgh's potent second line.

The entire goal of that matchup will simply be to keep the puck out of our net, and let our 1st and 4th lines do the majority of the scoring (given that the Pit shutdown line will matchup against the Detroit 2nd line at JLA). If it becomes a battle of 1st and 4th lines (and given the Detroit defense), I love our chances in this series.

I don't deny the talent of the second line of Pittsburgh but with one of the best shutdown lines in the game, arguably the best face-off man in the league at center (including a great second option if Drapes gets tossed from the dot), and the talent of Kronwall and Stuart, I feel this is a wash. I don't see it as advantage Detroit, but I certainly don't see it as Pittsburgh's major advantage the way alot of their fans do.

The fact of the matter is, this has been the Penguins best line all regular season and all playoff run. I doubt Detroits "third line" is going to slow down / stop one of the best, if not the best, lines this entire season.

Malkin - 47 goals , 59 assists , 106 points

Sykora - 28 goals , 35 assists , 63 points

Malone - 27 goals , 24 assists , 51 points

If you honestly think your third line is going to have an "advantage", you're seeing something that I don't.

See above

[TheWellHungarian 0]

The 1st two lines may be a wash. Give Detroit a huge defensive & FO % advantage. Goaltending a wash. A huge factor that may be overlooked is their 3rd line w/ Jordan Staal. Detroit does not have an answer for this kid. Is it Saturday yet?

I'm late in replying to this conversation, but I'll throw in my 2 cents, and vouch for Eva.

Eva absolutely has the correct lines for Detroit. There's no way in hell the Wings "second line" (Sammy-Filppula-Cleary) can match up with Pittsburgh's. They'd do a lot of damage against that line even with Kronwall and Stuart playing D. What Eva is saying is that at home Babs will get the matchups he wants, which will mean pinning Detroit's 1st line against Pittsburgh's 1st line, and then matching up our shutdown line against Pittsburgh's potent second line.

The entire goal of that matchup will simply be to keep the puck out of our net, and let our 1st and 4th lines do the majority of the scoring (given that the Pit shutdown line will matchup against the Detroit 2nd line at JLA). If it becomes a battle of 1st and 4th lines (and given the Detroit defense), I love our chances in this series.

I don't deny the talent of the second line of Pittsburgh but with one of the best shutdown lines in the game, arguably the best face-off man in the league at center (including a great second option if Drapes gets tossed from the dot), and the talent of Kronwall and Stuart, I feel this is a wash. I don't see it as advantage Detroit, but I certainly don't see it as Pittsburgh's major advantage the way alot of their fans do.

See above

[betterREDthandead 58]

The 1st two lines may be a wash. Give Detroit a huge defensive & FO % advantage. Goaltending a wash. A huge factor that may be overlooked is their 3rd line w/ Jordan Staal. Detroit does not have an answer for this kid. Is it Saturday yet?

Nah. Malkin being on the 2nd line gives Pitts the advantage over ours, easy.

But no answer for Staal? Come on man. Who is he the second coming of? Give us a little credit here....I think we can handle a 19-year-old rookie, I don't care if he is a top 3 draft choice. It's not like he's tearing up the league. Staal is one of the least of our worries.

[TheWellHungarian 0]

Normally I'd agree w/ you, but (and a lot Pens fans don't want to admit b/c we HAVE our heads up Crosby's a** & Malkin gets the highlight goals), but Staal has been our best 2 way player throughout the playoffs.

Also, huge coaching advantage has to go to Detroit.

Nah. Malkin being on the 2nd line gives Pitts the advantage over ours, easy.

But no answer for Staal? Come on man. Who is he the second coming of? Give us a little credit here....I think we can handle a 19-year-old rookie, I don't care if he is a top 3 draft choice. It's not like he's tearing up the league. Staal is one of the least of our worries.

[nexus11313 0]

This is Staal's 2nd year and he's been one of the better 2-way players in the league since day one. With the offenses, defenses, and goaltending being so close it's roll players like Staal that are gonna make the difference in this series.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

Normally I'd agree w/ you, but (and a lot Pens fans don't want to admit b/c we HAVE our heads up Crosby's a** & Malkin gets the highlight goals), but Staal has been our best 2 way player throughout the playoffs.

Also, huge coaching advantage has to go to Detroit.

And the Wings will counter with Cleary who plays exceptional defense. Keep in mind he was part of the shutdown line until Franzen went out.

[dobbles 252]

someone a few pages ago said that most red wings fan underestimate the penguins because we haven't seen them play that much. i for one, can say thats not true. as a wing fan living in illinois, i saw the penguins twice as much as the wing in the regular season. why? becuase every game on versus was the penguins vs. the capitals, the penguins vs. the rangers, the penguins vs. the flyers, etc....

so quit acting like no one outside of western pennsylvania has heard of the penguins. how many wings games has the average penguins fan seen?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

This is Staal's 2nd year and he's been one of the better 2-way players in the league since day one. With the offenses, defenses, and goaltending being so close it's roll players like Staal that are gonna make the difference in this series.

While I agree with you that the role players are going to make a big difference in this series (and could possibly decide it), the defenses are not close. I'm not being a homer, I'm being obvious.

[littleram 0]

Hello all, this is my first post here on the wings forum. good knowledgeable fans!

These two team are so evenly matched, the ONLY area these teams are apart are

in the experience the wings have with playoff hockey and the SCF. Other than that

we are in for a heck of a show. I can't wait.

I'm a novice and hockey is not my religion, I am not a fair weather fan, but I follow

Hockey casually. This team, right now (penguins) are something special...I can say this enough

This is going to be a great series...

My prediction...Penguins in 7. Mark my words here..

[reggiedunlop 0]

1. Or the Pens will pay. PKs are like PPs for us.

2. Ryan Whitney will never be top 5 in Norris voting. Ever. Gonchar is not a Norris Finalist.

3. Z and Pavel are better.

4. Ignorance and cockiness leads to mistakes not triumph.

5. Fleury will have to steal a game or two. Osgood won't.

6. Conklin will make an appearance this series. Book it.

wow what insight. you are wrong in everything. that was easy

[nexus11313 0]

While I agree with you that the role players are going to make a big difference in this series (and could possibly decide it), the defenses are not close. I'm not being a homer, I'm being obvious.

I think most people would give Detroit's D the edge. However, most people would give the offensive advantage to the Pens and everyone knows what a hot goaltender can do in the playoffs. My point was that, as a whole, both teams matched up pretty evenly which puts a greater emphasis on the role players.

[TheWellHungarian 0]

Totally agree about the defense, but Staal has quietly scored more goals that Crosby in these playoffs (21 shooting %) whilst playing alongside 2 muckers. All that I am saying is w/ all the focus on the top 2 lines from both teams he may be a difference maker.

While I agree with you that the role players are going to make a big difference in this series (and could possibly decide it), the defenses are not close. I'm not being a homer, I'm being obvious.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think most people would give Detroit's D the edge. However, most people would give the offensive advantage to the Pens and everyone knows what a hot goaltender can do in the playoffs. My point was that, as a whole, both teams matched up pretty evenly which puts a greater emphasis on the role players.

My point is that I don't feel the Penguins and Red Wings defense are remotely close to matching up closely. I do agree that the Penguins offense is slightly better though.

Totally agree about the defense, but Staal has quietly scored more goals that Crosby in these playoffs (21 shooting %) whilst playing alongside 2 muckers. All that I am saying is w/ all the focus on the top 2 lines from both teams he may be a difference maker.

I understand Staal is putting the puck in the net these playoffs, but all I'm saying is that I would think the Wings' brain trust would pick up on that, and assign Cleary the role of shadowing him to prevent that from happening as best as possible.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[CrossoverThrash 0]

Not really fair that you compare that you take your best defensemen vs our best player.

But then to make your point more glaring, you take our 3rd best defensemen vs your best player.

Thats one thing I've noticed on here, people always skewing figures to benefit their team.

But overall, this forum is well run and many of you wing fans are very knowledgable. MUCH BETTER THAN THE FLYERS FORUMS!

if gill is your 3rd youre in some deep sh!t

[YoungGuns1340 1]

My point is that I don't feel the Penguins and Red Wings defense are remotely close to matching up closely. I do agree that the Penguins offense is slightly better though.

I understand Staal is putting the puck in the net these playoffs, but all I'm saying is that I would think the Wings' brain trust would pick up on that, and assign Cleary the role of shadowing him to prevent that from happening as best as possible.

I agree. The irony of this whole "defenses are equal" series is that Pitts best Dman may not even be better than our 2nd Dman. Gonchar is having a great season, but Lidstrom is all-star, Rafalski is still easily top 10, and Kronwall has been...honestly, I'm speechless for how this kid has played. Hes been INCREDIBLE. And we havent even started talking about Stuart and his chemistry with Kronwall. From the games Ive seen, Id say our 2nd pairing is AS GOOD AS Pittsburgs #1.

[Doggy 130]

Eva absolutely has the correct lines for Detroit. There's no way in hell the Wings "second line" (Sammy-Filppula-Cleary) can match up with Pittsburgh's. They'd do a lot of damage against that line even with Kronwall and Stuart playing D. What Eva is saying is that at home Babs will get the matchups he wants, which will mean pinning Detroit's 1st line against Pittsburgh's 1st line, and then matching up our shutdown line against Pittsburgh's potent second line.

Why would they? Draper will take that line, dude. That's just common sense.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

I cant wait til the games start so we can talk hockey...and quit speculating

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

I cant wait til the games start so we can talk hockey...and quit speculating

Same here. Long lay-offs are brutal.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

I cant wait til the games start so we can talk hockey...and quit speculating

oh man i know. i have been staying at the hospital with my wife for almost 2 weeks and the games were always my sunshine here. so yeah i hate these long layoffs. its killing me.

[DYags 0]

I cant wait til the games start so we can talk hockey...and quit speculating

Yeah, I feel like we're talking NFL for ESPN in the offseason...

[GreatBallsOfFire 0]

But have you seen them play?

I'm not going to go as far as evo and say that Detroit has the edge. I'm going to sit down Saturday night, watch the game, and find out! Thus far in these playoffs, Drake has turned into an honest to God beast out there; he's been hitting, he's been forechecking, he's been backchecking, and he's been netting the occasional odd goal. Another thing this line has going for them is Draper's sick ability in the faceoff circle. He's literally in the mid 60% for faceoffs. In fact, I think I could objectively say Draper is probably in the top five in the entire league in his faceoff ability, maybe even top three. Sammy, well, I'd rather not evaluate his play as I'd come off embarrassing myself trying to defend the man (although really, he can play defense).

The thing is though, if Malkin and co. don't have the puck, they can't score, and Detroit is the best team in the league at playing keep away. Draper, Drake, and Sammy are all defensively-minded forwards with a little bit of an offensive touch. They're not going to be out there to score (although they're welcomed to); they're going to be out there to make sure you guys don't. Combine our defensive offensemen with our offensive defensemen, and your second line may find themselves playing more D than they thought.

Analysts have been stating over and over that the Pens lack of faceoff success would play a crucial part for the first three rounds of the playoffs. So far it hasn't meant a damn thing really, but if Wings fans want to fall into the same trap so be it. The Pens play great as a team also, just as Detroit does which is why this series has such great potential.

Malkin will have his share of opportunities all said and done. You may contain him for games 1 and 2 but by game 3 or 4 he will produce, or vice versa. He is a beast and imposes his will on his opponents when he determines, not the other way around. If he wants the puck bad enough he will find it.

Hal Gill has served his purpose well since being added to the team. Many Pens fans were NOT happy at all when he was picked up but have been pleasantly surprised by his decent play so far. If he continues at the same level in the finals the Pens will benefit, but he certainly is getting more praise than he is worth. Detroit has the edge defensively no matter which way you slice it, and to argue otherwise is pointless. Luckily the Pens have enough lines to roll that are capable of filling the net when your best pairings are not on the ice.

As usual this series may come down to special teams. Both teams have killer PP's and when the opportunity presents itself both sides will have to capitalize. Philadelphia for all their crying could not score on the PP when they needed and it basically killed them. I don't expect the same incometence from Detroit, but if they can be kept to a minimum the Pens will find success. The potential for SH goals looms large as well which the Pens cannot afford.

Whether or not Franzen plays or is 100% could obviously play a huge role in this series also. Detroit needs him in there to take some pressure off their big guys if they falter.

Players for Wings fans to watch out for that have lesser roles on the Pens but are critical to their success this year and may possibly turn the tide for the Pens are:

Kris Letang - very solid puck moving rookie defenseman who is a bit on the small side but is not afraid to take or give a check when the situation is called for.

Jarko Ruutu - supreme agitator who can draw/take penalties and chip in the odd goal when you least expect

Maxime Talbot - huge energy guy that is a leader both on and off the ice for the team

I have a very healthy respect for Detroit as a team heading into game 1 as do most Pens fans on the whole I think. They are have a lethal combination of offense and defense that will take the Pens best effort to overcome, but they are not without their weaknesses. Osgood is solid, but not sensational. He can be broken. Nor can your #1 line be on the ice the entire game - when they sit down to rest is when the Pens must jump on the attack. Few Pens fans see this series lasting shorter than 6 games, but judging from this look behind enemy lines the opposing side seems to see things differently. No matter the reason, it can only benefit the Pens to be viewed as the underdog, so we will gladly take the disrespect with a smile and wait until the puck is dropped to find out the truth.

[Firehawk 305]

Given the fact that the Penguins have played nothing but crap teams in the playoffs so far, I'll reserve my judgment until after game 1 that they're one of the two best teams in the league. I have a feeling the Pens are going to get their bells rung in game 1.

We'll see how well the Pens play without the puck, because they're not going to have it too much.

Edited May 23, 2008 by Firehawk

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

oh man i know. i have been staying at the hospital with my wife for almost 2 weeks and the games were always my sunshine here. so yeah i hate these long layoffs. its killing me.

Sorry about your wife bro...I hope everything works out!!