Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The fact of the matter is, this has been the Penguins best line all regular season and all playoff run. I doubt Detroits "third line" is going to slow down / stop one of the best, if not the best, lines this entire season.

Malkin - 47 goals , 59 assists , 106 points

Sykora - 28 goals , 35 assists , 63 points

Malone - 27 goals , 24 assists , 51 points

If you honestly think your third line is going to have an "advantage', you're seeing something that I don't.

How's Malkin gonna generate offence when he never has the puck? He cant win faceoffs. People can discredit it all they want, but it's an important stat. The line itself, Malkin is easy to get off his game, play physical and he gets off his game. Sykora is a very streaky scorer, and Malone is alot like Holmstrom, he plays better when his line mates are playing well.

[Pensfan 0]

Uh, they have guys called 'defensemen' whose specific JOBS it is to shut down offense. Detroit's third line isn't going to slow down or stop Pittsburgh's top line, Lidstrom/Rafalski/Stuart/Kronwall/Chelios is. Having good defensive offensemen is just the cherry topping it all off.

And this line has seen all different kinds of "defenseman" this season. The fact still remains that the Pens second line has had more goals this season then Detroits top line. How does Detroits third line have an advantage?

[SFwingsfan 23]

All these threads have been:

Red Wings fan: Blah blah.

Penguins fan: oh yeah!?!? well, blah blah!!!

Red Wings fan: pffff, blah. Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Penguins fan: ROFLCOPTERRIFIC! Blah. Crosby and Malkin. Blah.

Red Wings fan: hmmm....

Penguins fan: hmmm....

hahahahaha!!!! I think we all need this series to start...like now!

[Pensfan 0]

How's Malkin gonna generate offence when he never has the puck? He cant win faceoffs.

There's a faceoff every time he steps on the ice? When was this rule instated?

[Cern 0]

And this line has seen all different kinds of "defenseman" this season.

Have the Penguins seen a defense with eight going on nine Norris trophies under its belt? A defense that has had the lowest shots allowed in the league and the lowest goals allowed in the league? A defense that has the help of a Selke winner plus two current nominees? A defense that has puck-possession hockey down to a science? A defense that transforms on paper a very good goaltender into a spectacular one?

They haven't played the Wings this season, so I'm going to say no.

[Cern 0]

There's a faceoff every time he steps on the ice? When was this rule instated?

The Penguins as a whole have been terrible at faceoffs. Even if he gets on the ice on the fly, he can't do much if he dosen't have the puck to work with. Not easy to get it back from a team so good at puck-possession hockey.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Cern

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

There's a faceoff every time he steps on the ice? When was this rule instated?

Seen any Wings games before? They get the puck, and keep it on there stick until they make a line change, it's how they play.

[Pensfan 0]

Have the Penguins seen a defense with eight going on nine Norris trophies under its belt? A defense that has had the lowest shots allowed in the league and the lowest goals allowed in the league? A defense that has the help of a Selke winner plus two current nominees? A defense that has puck-possession hockey down to a science? A defense that transforms on paper a very good goaltender into a spectacular one?

They haven't played the Wings this season, so I'm going to say no.

Same could be said to you, has your defense seen lines of the Pens calibre? I'm not putting your defense down, I'm merely pointing out that it teeters on idiotic to say that Detroits 3rd line has an advantage over probably the best line in hockey this year.

[Yzerman191 37]

The fact of the matter is, this has been the Penguins best line all regular season and all playoff run. I doubt Detroits "third line" is going to slow down / stop one of the best, if not the best, lines this entire season.

But have you seen them play?

I'm not going to go as far as evo and say that Detroit has the edge. I'm going to sit down Saturday night, watch the game, and find out! Thus far in these playoffs, Drake has turned into an honest to God beast out there; he's been hitting, he's been forechecking, he's been backchecking, and he's been netting the occasional odd goal. Another thing this line has going for them is Draper's sick ability in the faceoff circle. He's literally in the mid 60% for faceoffs. In fact, I think I could objectively say Draper is probably in the top five in the entire league in his faceoff ability, maybe even top three. Sammy, well, I'd rather not evaluate his play as I'd come off embarrassing myself trying to defend the man (although really, he can play defense).

The thing is though, if Malkin and co. don't have the puck, they can't score, and Detroit is the best team in the league at playing keep away. Draper, Drake, and Sammy are all defensively-minded forwards with a little bit of an offensive touch. They're not going to be out there to score (although they're welcomed to); they're going to be out there to make sure you guys don't. Combine our defensive offensemen with our offensive defensemen, and your second line may find themselves playing more D than they thought.

[Pensfan 0]

Seen any Wings games before? They get the puck, and keep it on there stick until they make a line change, it's how they play.

Detroits 3rd line is the best in hockey, I get it now!

[Cern 0]

Same could be said to you, has your defense seen lines of the Pens calibre?

I would say that the gap between Pittsburgh's offense and Detroit's defense is much smaller than that between Pittsburgh's defense and Detroit's offense. Lidstrom squaring up against Malkin seems a lot less lopsided than Datsyuk vs. Gill.

[Pensfan 0]

But have you seen them play?

I'm not going to go as far as evo and say that Detroit has the edge. I'm going to sit down Saturday night, watch the game, and find out! Thus far in these playoffs, Drake has turned into an honest to God beast out there; he's been hitting, he's been forechecking, he's been backchecking, and he's been netting the occasional odd goal. Another thing this line has going for them is Draper's sick ability in the faceoff circle. He's literally in the mid 60% for faceoffs. In fact, I think I could objectively say Draper is probably in the top five in the entire league in his faceoff ability, maybe even top three. Sammy, well, I'd rather not evaluate his play as I'd come off embarrassing myself trying to defend the man (although really, he can play defense).

The thing is though, if Malkin and co. don't have the puck, they can't score, and Detroit is the best team in the league at playing keep away. Draper, Drake, and Sammy are all defensively-minded forwards with a little bit of an offensive touch. They're not going to be out there to score (although they're welcomed to); they're going to be out there to make sure you guys don't. Combine our defensive offensemen with our offensive defensemen, and your second line may find themselves playing more D than they thought.

Thank you for a well thought out, honest, intellectual post. What I think a lot of Wings fans fail to realize is that the Pens second line is their best. This line is better then our number 1 line. Crosby and Hossa still are only working on about 60% chemistry.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Pensfan

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Detroits 3rd line is the best in hockey, I get it now!

That's exactly what I'm saying. Draper and Drake will outscore Malkin and Sykora, and Samuelson will kick Malones ass in a couple fights over the series. Draper will win the Conne Smythe for scoring 14 points in 5 games in the finals and Malkin will be the leagues worst +/- at -9.

Now back to reality, I know that the Malkin line is better, but like I said, how good are they on the defensive side? Because without the puck, that's what they'll be playing.

[Pensfan 0]

I would say that the gap between Pittsburgh's offense and Detroit's defense is much smaller than that between Pittsburgh's defense and Detroit's offense. Lidstrom squaring up against Malkin seems a lot less lopsided than Datsyuk vs. Gill.

What does that have to do with anything were talking about? That's for "who's going to win the series" talk.

[Pensfan 0]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Draper and Drake will outscore Malkin and Sykora, and Samuelson will kick Malones ass in a couple fights over the series. Draper will win the Conne Smythe for scoring 14 points in 5 games in the finals and Malkin will be the leagues worst +/- at -9.

Now back to reality, I know that the Malkin line is better, but like I said, how good are they on the defensive side? Because without the puck, that's what they'll be playing.

Their not as good defensively as our top line, but they're still above average. Their puck possession though, definitely is better then our top line.

[Cern 0]

What does that have to do with anything were talking about? That's for "who's going to win the series" talk.

Uh, you asked the question, I answered it. I made the argument that squaring up an offensive line's ability directly against another offensive line makes less sense than squaring up a defensive paring against a forward line's offensive capabilities, and in that context I see no reason why Detroit dosen't have the tools on the blue line capable of shutting/slowing down Malkin's line.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Their not as good defensively as our top line, but they're still above average. Their puck possession though, definitely is better then our top line.

I was gonna mention the top line, but I'm glad you brought it up. Crosby and Hossa would probably own the Draper line because of their defensive awareness, but I'm not sure Malkin and Sykora will score as much as the Crosby line would, if matched up against Draper.

[Doggy 130]

Yes he does, unless Franzen comes back those will be the lines.

They were the lines for only one game. We did alright but I don't like them. Samuelsson better not be out there against Malkin and Malone. He'll be exploited to the s***house and give them free breakways and they're the last players you wanna give breakaways to.

You'll be more likely to see:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom

Samuelsson, Cleary, Filppula

Maltby, Draper, Drake

McCarty, Hudler, Helm

...If there's no Franzen.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Doggy

[Pensfan 0]

I was gonna mention the top line, but I'm glad you brought it up. Crosby and Hossa would probably own the Draper line because of their defensive awareness, but I'm not sure Malkin and Sykora will score as much as the Crosby line would, if matched up against Draper.

I'm still up in the air about how the Crosby / Hossa line will preform. As I've stated before, they're going up against a very dominate line and they're running on around 60% chemistry. Throw in that Crosby is only about 80% healthy and I think the Pens second line will be our dominate one.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

There is something else, coaching. We play our game and have developed it over many years. It is solid. You can bet the Pens are trying right this minute to figure out how to "adjust" to playing us. Is that an advantage? I think so. The Pens think their little 4-1 thing is a great way to tie up the neutral zone, but against a team that can move the puck, keep the puck and skate like Detroit - that will be a whole new experience. They supposedly have played better D in the post season, but against what? Philly? One Ranger who showed up every night (Jagr)? Untested. If Detroit comes out full force (and they damn well better), the Pens are going to experience a major onslaught on BOTH ends of the ice while they can only provide a potential onslaught on one side of the ice.

P.S. Put this trolling whiny little girl Pens Fan on ignore like I did.

Edited May 22, 2008 by LivingtheDream

[Doggy 130]

There is something else, coaching.

Pittsburgh has an excellent coach. I'm not saying you said he wasn't but wanted to put it out there. He's made the stars of his team come together very, very well. Tonnes of respect for Therrien.

[Guest LivingtheDream]

Pittsburgh has an excellent coach. I'm not saying you said he wasn't but wanted to put it out there. He's made the stars of his team come together very, very well. Tonnes of respect for Therrien.

Sure, he is a good coach, no doubt. Still, I say we have an edge. Babcock has had his stamp on this team and it is evolved from Bowman. We are far more developed in terms of a "system" is what I am saying. And by the way, our stars are psychically connected Euro Twins and a D Man God who never needed to be told how to play together.

[Doggy 130]

Sure, he is a good coach, no doubt. Still, I say we have an edge. Babcock has had his stamp on this team and it is evolved from Bowman. We are far more developed in terms of a "system" is what I am saying. And by the way, our stars are psychically connected Euro Twins and a D Man God who never needed to be told how to play together.

Yeah but our stars aren't kids. The way Therrien has handled them has been excellent. It's a much tougher job than Sather had with Gretzky, Messier, Coffey and Kurri.

Regardless, I'm not going to say who the better coach is because I don't know. You'd really need to have seen both of them first hand during games, in the rooms, in practise, etc. to be a proper judge. I'll take the easy option - they're both excellent.

[betterREDthandead 58]

They were the lines for only one game. We did alright but I don't like them. Samuelsson better not be out there against Malkin and Malone. He'll be exploited to the s***house and give them free breakways and they're the last players you wanna give breakaways to.

You'll be more likely to see:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom

Samuelsson, Cleary, Filppula

Maltby, Draper, Drake

McCarty, Hudler, Helm

...If there's no Franzen.

I bet we see the Game 6 lines again. Babcock's big on sticking with an adjustment that worked, at least he has this year. And Drake-Draper-Samuelsson combined for 2 goals, 2 assists in Game 6. Even Sammy chipped in with an assist.

The guy I don't want to see out there against Malkin and Malone is Hudler. He's not that great defensively to begin with and he gives up like 50 pounds to Malone.

[ilmickeyli 40]

I just dont get it.. The pens fans are non-stop talking about individual players, or their top 6.

They have yet to meet a team that really executes AS A TEAM, as Detroit does.. If our superstars had to carry the team, they would. But they don't need to (in many ways like Stevie changed his role when the team improved)

Hell most of the time they dont even play on the same line. There's no need.

I'll admit, the Pens defense has much improved.. But I just can't put it in the same group as the Wings. Maybe in a year or so.. But the pens JUST THIS YEAR figured out to play defense as a team. And I'm not saying the whole season, either.

You can't beat the wings with just firepower. If you want to play open like that, you better be prepared for odd-man rushes you don't even see coming. The wings bring it out of the zone amazingly.

Not saying the Pens wont be able to do it, and I do acknowledge it will be a hell of a series (probably one of the best in recent years -- GREAT for the NHL if they had not ******* scheduled it to coincide with the NBA playoffs (:mad: as I am a Michigander.. GO PISTONS)

/homer post