Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[Guest Crymson]

you can tell we were terrified of philly from the way they werent even a speed bump in the ecf......

By the time the WCF rolled around, the Flyers were missing Timonen and Coburn. Those two are Philly's best puck-moving defensemen, and Timonen is their best defenseman overall---indeed, he's one of the better D-men in the league. Dump Gonchar and Whitney out of your lineup, and then we'll see how you would have done against a healthy Philly lineup.

Don't make reference to Timonen being in the lineup for game 5. He was not 100%.

[betterREDthandead 58]

And you're saying Fleury hasn't stole any games in these playoffs? He's been every bit as impressive as Osgood. Fleury has stolen a good 2-3 games in these playoffs. And in the other games, he had tried his best to keep us in the game and gave us a chance to come back. I understand this is a Wings board and expect to hear a lot of positive things about the Wings, but come one. Let's be a little bit more realistic and point out real facts.

He didn't say that. The original post said Fleury can steal a game, Osgood can't. But eva never said Fleury can't. Just that Osgood can.....and has.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Come on, that's ridiculous... Neptune isn't far enough away... Pluto works better

You're right...If Sammy was piloting the rocket, he'd end up on Pluto because he missed the target of Neptune...or maybe he'll just get blocked by an asteroid

[Graybeard 0]

And you're saying Fleury hasn't stole any games in these playoffs? He's been every bit as impressive as Osgood. Fleury has stolen a good 2-3 games in these playoffs. And in the other games, he had tried his best to keep us in the game and gave us a chance to come back. I understand this is a Wings board and expect to hear a lot of positive things about the Wings, but come one. Let's be a little bit more realistic and point out real facts.

I don't know about stealing or not stealing games other than the fact that we don't ask our netminders to steal games. If we have to ask it, then we consider it a failure on the part of our defense.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

You're right...If Sammy was piloting the rocket, he'd end up on Pluto because he missed the target of Neptune...or maybe he'll just get blocked by an asteroid

LOL, Sammy missing the target! Excellent post!

[HeyNow71871929 0]

I don't know about stealing or not stealing games other than the fact that we don't ask our netminders to steal games. If we have to ask it, then we consider it a failure on the part of our defense.

Goaltenders stealing games is part of the Stanley Cup Playoffs. Offenses don't necessarily show up in every single playoff game and that is when you rely on your goalie to make some key stops and saves. If you have a subpar goaltender, forget winning the Stanley Cup, you may not even make it out of the first round. Goaltenders stealing games is part of hockey, part of winning, and part of the Stanley Cup Playoffs. And it is the goalie's responsibility to be ready for each and every thing in the playoffs.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

you have now lost all credibility.......... we lost a one goal game (i dont count the empty net)to philly and don cherry says we threw the game so you buy it!!

you can tell we were terrified of philly from the way they werent even a speed bump in the ecf......

orpik isnt very good but you would take him on your team????? ............ come back later with some intelligent stuff and maybe we can talk again.

No, I watched the game, and whether or not it was a tank job is opinon, but that wasnt Pittsburghs best even without Sid in the line-up.

Please, Philly were without Timonen and Coburn. Smith was playing with 2 separated shoulders and Hatcher had a torn muscle in his knee. They didnt have a chance, there top 4 was about 20% healthy and thats added together.

Yeah, just like I'd take a guy like Belak who isnt very good on the Wings. You have to understand that expression around here because people usually want skill and not grit. But luckily for us, Holland did a good job this year. So did Shero, but I think he'll have to wait a year or 2 for his cup.

[NHLrules? 32]

Here is a myth: The Eastern Conference is good.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Here is a myth: The Eastern Conference is good.

YOU BE THE JUDGE:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Montreal* 82 47 25 10 104 262 222 22-13-6 25-12-4 44-20-8 8-1-1 3W

2. Pittsburgh* 82 47 27 8 102 247 216 26-10-5 21-17-3 39-26-7 6-3-1 1L

3. Washington* 82 43 31 8 94 242 231 23-15-3 20-16-5 37-28-7 9-1-0 7W

4. New Jersey 82 46 29 7 99 206 197 25-14-2 21-15-5 39-26-7 4-5-1 1W

5. NY Rangers 82 42 27 13 97 213 199 25-13-3 17-14-10 41-20-11 5-1-4 2L

6. Philadelphia 82 42 29 11 95 248 233 21-14-6 21-15-5 37-24-11 7-2-1 2W

7. Ottawa 82 43 31 8 94 261 247 22-15-4 21-16-4 39-28-5 3-6-1 1L

8. Boston 82 41 29 12 94 212 222 21-16-4 20-13-8 35-25-12 4-2-4 1L

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Detroit* 82 54 21 7 115 257 184 29-9-3 25-12-4 47-19-6 7-2-1 2W

2. San Jose* 82 49 23 10 108 222 193 22-13-6 27-10-4 44-18-10 7-2-1 2L

3. Minnesota* 82 44 28 10 98 223 218 25-11-5 19-17-5 40-24-8 6-2-2 1L

4. Anaheim 82 47 27 8 102 205 191 28-9-4 19-18-4 39-25-8 8-2-0 3W

5. Dallas 82 45 30 7 97 242 207 23-16-2 22-14-5 39-26-7 3-5-2 1W

6. Colorado 82 44 31 7 95 231 219 27-12-2 17-19-5 36-29-7 5-4-1 2W

7. Calgary 82 42 30 10 94 229 227 21-11-9 21-19-1 38-27-7 5-5-0 1W

8. Nashville 82 41 32 9 91 230 229 23-14-4 18-18-5 36-28-8 6-3-1 1L

Granted, these are only the 16 teams that made the playoffs. But top to bottom, the East looked lot more competitive and the 8 seed in the East had more points than the 8 seed in the West. In my opinion, there is no better conference. Both conferences are elite and one team or another did not get this far because of the conferences they played in.

Edited May 21, 2008 by HeyNow71871929

[Reds4Life 51]

West:

Detroit

San Jose

Dallas

Anaheim

East:

Penguins

Montreal

There are more contenders in the West for sure.

[Dabura 12,232]

EDIT: Brain fart.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Dabura

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

YOU BE THE JUDGE:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Montreal* 82 47 25 10 104 262 222 22-13-6 25-12-4 44-20-8 8-1-1 3W

2. Pittsburgh* 82 47 27 8 102 247 216 26-10-5 21-17-3 39-26-7 6-3-1 1L

3. Washington* 82 43 31 8 94 242 231 23-15-3 20-16-5 37-28-7 9-1-0 7W

4. New Jersey 82 46 29 7 99 206 197 25-14-2 21-15-5 39-26-7 4-5-1 1W

5. NY Rangers 82 42 27 13 97 213 199 25-13-3 17-14-10 41-20-11 5-1-4 2L

6. Philadelphia 82 42 29 11 95 248 233 21-14-6 21-15-5 37-24-11 7-2-1 2W

7. Ottawa 82 43 31 8 94 261 247 22-15-4 21-16-4 39-28-5 3-6-1 1L

8. Boston 82 41 29 12 94 212 222 21-16-4 20-13-8 35-25-12 4-2-4 1L

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Detroit* 82 54 21 7 115 257 184 29-9-3 25-12-4 47-19-6 7-2-1 2W

2. San Jose* 82 49 23 10 108 222 193 22-13-6 27-10-4 44-18-10 7-2-1 2L

3. Minnesota* 82 44 28 10 98 223 218 25-11-5 19-17-5 40-24-8 6-2-2 1L

4. Anaheim 82 47 27 8 102 205 191 28-9-4 19-18-4 39-25-8 8-2-0 3W

5. Dallas 82 45 30 7 97 242 207 23-16-2 22-14-5 39-26-7 3-5-2 1W

6. Colorado 82 44 31 7 95 231 219 27-12-2 17-19-5 36-29-7 5-4-1 2W

7. Calgary 82 42 30 10 94 229 227 21-11-9 21-19-1 38-27-7 5-5-0 1W

8. Nashville 82 41 32 9 91 230 229 23-14-4 18-18-5 36-28-8 6-3-1 1L

Granted, these are only the 16 teams that made the playoffs. But top to bottom, the East looked lot more competitive and the 8 seed in the East had more points than the 8 seed in the West. In my opinion, there is no better conference. Both conferences are elite and one team or another did not get this far because of the conferences they played in.

When's the last time an Eastern Conference team easily won the Cup? 1995. When the New Jersey Devils walked all over the youthful Red Wings.

1996: Avs crush Panthers

1997: Wings sweep Flyers

1998: Wings sweep Caps

1999: Dallas beats NJ

2000: New Jersey beat Dallas in 6

2001: Avs beat New Jerset

2002: Wings beat Canes in 5

2003: New Jersey beats Anaheim in 7.

2004: Tampa Beats Calgary in 7

2006: Carolina beats Edmonton in 7

2007: Anaheim pound Ottawa in 5

That is why the East is a weaker conference, the last 13 years They've only won the cup in 6 games or less twice.

[NHLrules? 32]

YOU BE THE JUDGE:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Montreal* 82 47 25 10 104 262 222 22-13-6 25-12-4 44-20-8 8-1-1 3W

2. Pittsburgh* 82 47 27 8 102 247 216 26-10-5 21-17-3 39-26-7 6-3-1 1L

3. Washington* 82 43 31 8 94 242 231 23-15-3 20-16-5 37-28-7 9-1-0 7W

4. New Jersey 82 46 29 7 99 206 197 25-14-2 21-15-5 39-26-7 4-5-1 1W

5. NY Rangers 82 42 27 13 97 213 199 25-13-3 17-14-10 41-20-11 5-1-4 2L

6. Philadelphia 82 42 29 11 95 248 233 21-14-6 21-15-5 37-24-11 7-2-1 2W

7. Ottawa 82 43 31 8 94 261 247 22-15-4 21-16-4 39-28-5 3-6-1 1L

8. Boston 82 41 29 12 94 212 222 21-16-4 20-13-8 35-25-12 4-2-4 1L

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Team GP W L OT PTS GF GA Home Away Conf Last Ten Streak

1. Detroit* 82 54 21 7 115 257 184 29-9-3 25-12-4 47-19-6 7-2-1 2W

2. San Jose* 82 49 23 10 108 222 193 22-13-6 27-10-4 44-18-10 7-2-1 2L

3. Minnesota* 82 44 28 10 98 223 218 25-11-5 19-17-5 40-24-8 6-2-2 1L

4. Anaheim 82 47 27 8 102 205 191 28-9-4 19-18-4 39-25-8 8-2-0 3W

5. Dallas 82 45 30 7 97 242 207 23-16-2 22-14-5 39-26-7 3-5-2 1W

6. Colorado 82 44 31 7 95 231 219 27-12-2 17-19-5 36-29-7 5-4-1 2W

7. Calgary 82 42 30 10 94 229 227 21-11-9 21-19-1 38-27-7 5-5-0 1W

8. Nashville 82 41 32 9 91 230 229 23-14-4 18-18-5 36-28-8 6-3-1 1L

Granted, these are only the 16 teams that made the playoffs. But top to bottom, the East looked lot more competitive and the 8 seed in the East had more points than the 8 seed in the West. In my opinion, there is no better conference. Both conferences are elite and one team or another did not get this far because of the conferences they played in.

So the Bruins had 3 more points that Nashville, whats your point?

The Pens were an astounding 8-1-1 against the West according to you guys and the Wings were 7-2-1.

Thats a huge difference.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think the crux of this is that no one on the Detroit Red Wings will be dumb enough to underestimate or with-hold respect from the Penguins. The exact same thing goes for the Pens with respect to the Wings. Both teams are great teams. It's easy to dislike the Pens for all the attention they receive, especially if you're Canadian and get sick of the Crosby hype over here. That doesn't take aways from Crosby himself but it should help you Pens fans understand why some of us are sick of hearing about Sid.

I've been a big Ovetchkin supporter since day one, so you'll have to forgive me for not giving Crosby all his due

I did, however, idolize Mario along with Stevie Y, Fedorov and Howe when I was a kid. I recently found a picture of myself wearing a Pens jersey while playing hockey with my brother. Luckily all the other pictures feature me in Red Wings mechandise Regardless of how much I love the Wings I definitely always take Mario's side in the Gretzky-Mario debates so you can't call me a blind homer- I just don't have a man-crush on Sid.

[Guest nutz2u]

This hype of the Penguins' Crosby/ Malkin and Hossa, kinda reminds me of the '97 Flyers' Lindros and the Legion of Doom, hopefully it'll have the same ending.

[Graybeard 0]

I understand Zetterberg and Datsyuk are tremendous players. But people on here make it seem like the Selke award is everything. All of your comments seem to have something with Selke in it. It's a nice award sure, but we can just as easily bring up the fact Malkin is a Hart Trophy candidate and the fact Crosby won 3 trophies last year. And you don't need to be nominated for a particular trophy to be good at it. Just because Hossa wasn't nominated for the Selke doesn't make him any less defensively aware and defensively intelligent then your boys Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

What do you want us to do? Mostly Z and D's defensive play gets brought up because a lot of Pens fans are blathering about how great their forwards play defensively and want to compare them. This is nonsense. There really is no comparison. What would your reaction be if we came over to your house and said that Hank and Dats were every bit as good as pure goal scoring forwards as Crosby and Malkin? You would be up in arms, and rightfully so. These guys are all great players but not for exactly the same reasons. You can't claim that your guys our much better pure goal scorers (which they are), but then turn around and try to say that your guys are any where near as good defensively as our top guys (they just aren't).

Now lets compare the Hart trophy to the Selke. Both are some nice hardware but I don't think they are equally telling when it comes to winning cups. One coach has brought both of our teams to the cup. Ask him which trophy winner he would rather have on his team. He preached defense first from top to bottom and you might say he was pretty damn successful with that philosophy. He took Mario and made him a better player (and cup winner) by elevating his two way game and turned around and did the same thing for Stevie Y. Because of the success with his system the guy has more jewelry than a gypsy woman. We still play that kind of hockey. History is on our side and it's the Penguins who have everything to prove in this series.

[fastballspecial 0]

lol. this thread rules. I've never seen so many statistics in my life.

nor have I seen the Selke trophy discredited so much.

LETS GO RED WINGS!!!!!

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I understand Zetterberg and Datsyuk are tremendous players. But people on here make it seem like the Selke award is everything. All of your comments seem to have something with Selke in it. It's a nice award sure, but we can just as easily bring up the fact Malkin is a Hart Trophy candidate and the fact Crosby won 3 trophies last year. And you don't need to be nominated for a particular trophy to be good at it. Just because Hossa wasn't nominated for the Selke doesn't make him any less defensively aware and defensively intelligent then your boys Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

Actually, that's precisely what it means. What may be getting lost in the translation here is that right now in these playoffs Zetterberg is tied with Crosby for points (while Z holds the goals lead) and Dats is tied with Hossa and Malkin. What that means is that they are all offensively capable, but Detroit's guys defensively are among the three best in the league, and arguably the top 2. Crosby, Hossa and Malkin are not.

It's no discredit to Crosby and the Hart or Hossa and Malkin, its about being the most versatile players out there, and Z and Dats are moreso than the Pens' three.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[Aeothe Kaear 0]

Come on, that's ridiculous... Neptune isn't far enough away... Pluto works better

The difference is, on that scale, negligible. As of today, Neptune is 29.9 AU away, Pluto 30.6 AU (one astronomical unit = the average Earth-Sun distance).

I'd prefer much farther. Andromeda or something.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The difference is, on that scale, negligible. As of today, Neptune is 29.9 AU away, Pluto 30.6 AU (one astronomical unit = the average Earth-Sun distance).

I'd prefer much farther. Andromeda or something.

Does this guy know how to party or what?

Edited May 21, 2008 by Never Forget Mac #25

[chrisdetroit 189]

DISPELLING THE MYTH OF MYTHS

#1..... you cannot say sample size is too small to fit your liking. 25% in playoffs is 25% in playoffs. if the wings take stupid penalties, they will pay.

#2...... wings have the edge in defense. cannot argue with you there. whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade, gonchar is a candidate this year. you certainly have better offensive defensemen but you have no one as "stay home, hard hitting" as orpik. you have not faced as aggressive a forecheck as the pens. as i think we are the more offensively deep team, look for some of your "elder" defensemen to be a little slow come the third period.

#3....... hossa played a fraction of the season on a good team. HE IS AS GOOD A BACKCHECKER AS THERE IS IN THE GAME. if he had played the whole season as a pen, he would be up for the award as well. every player has a role, and crosby and malkings role is not to kill penalties. if you have watched any of our series you know that crosby can play defense with any forward out there.

#4......... youth vs experience. our entire season was filled with adversity losing crosby and fleury..... they held up just fine...... youth does not care that drake is 39 and chelios is 62, they are full of ignorance and cockiness that comes with youth........ but drake and chelios will certainly feel their age as games and the series go forward.

#5......... fleury is the better goalie based on agility and skill. correct he has not seen the rubber detroit will throw but FLEURY CAN STEAL A GAME FOR THE PENS, where osgood cannot. (in my humble opinion of course)

#6...... the sun will rise, you will pay taxes, and the pens will be outshot....... such is the way of the world...... but our goals per shot percentage is lights out ....... if they DO throw pucks at the net like they should..... osgood will be replace by hasek in short order.......

should be one heck of a series........ cant wait to watch it............. good luck

I started to read what was a well thought out response until I got to this

whitney will own the norris trophy for the next decade

That's when I realized that this was just Pens fan making idiotic claims not based on fact.

[zenway9 1]

I believe this thread is a little too bloated. It's very easy to figure out...Stop Crosby and Malkin and we win, plain and simple. The Penguins are not a TEAM...they are 2 young and cocky superstars...that, my friends, does not win you the Stanley Cup.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

I believe this thread is a little too bloated. It's very easy to figure out...Stop Crosby and Malkin and we win, plain and simple. The Penguins are not a TEAM...they are 2 young and cocky superstars...that, my friends, does not win you the Stanley Cup.

FAIL

[betterREDthandead 58]

I believe this thread is a little too bloated. It's very easy to figure out...Stop Crosby and Malkin and we win, plain and simple. The Penguins are not a TEAM...they are 2 young and cocky superstars...that, my friends, does not win you the Stanley Cup.

Why would you say that?

[HeyNow71871929 0]

I believe this thread is a little too bloated. It's very easy to figure out...Stop Crosby and Malkin and we win, plain and simple. The Penguins are not a TEAM...they are 2 young and cocky superstars...that, my friends, does not win you the Stanley Cup.

NO JUSTIFICATION. And explain how this "not a TEAM" Pittsburgh Penguins got all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals then? We Pens fans can say the same about Datsyuk and Zetterberg, but most of us are knowledgeable enough to respect both of them and acknowledge how terrific they are in many facets in the game. It's a good thing not everyone on this board is as narrow-minded as you.