Dispelling some myths: the Pittsburgh Penguins

[Rice 42]

HA! You're one to talk, hypocrite. You and your Wings fans make it seem like this series is a cakewalk. Us Pens fans are just looking for you guys to show some respect towards what the Penguins have done to get this far. One poster in this thread said Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. Now come on. Take your Red Wings glasses off and come in touch with reality. There is no doubt Lidstrom is the best dman in the NHL and the World, but best player? Come on. It just seems like everyone here thinks all things Red Wings is the best and Penguins are nowhere near them. It's ridiculous.

Lidstrom is the best player in the world. You'll see why shortly.

[NHLrules? 32]

HA! You're one to talk, hypocrite. You and your Wings fans make it seem like this series is a cakewalk. Us Pens fans are just looking for you guys to show some respect towards what the Penguins have done to get this far. One poster in this thread said Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. Now come on. Take your Red Wings glasses off and come in touch with reality. There is no doubt Lidstrom is the best dman in the NHL and the World, but best player? Come on. It just seems like everyone here thinks all things Red Wings is the best and Penguins are nowhere near them. It's ridiculous.

Almost every announcer says Lidstrom is the best player in the game. Period.

Now, I know they dont watch as much hockey as you Pens fans do.

[Yzerman191 37]

HA! You're one to talk, hypocrite. You and your Wings fans make it seem like this series is a cakewalk. Us Pens fans are just looking for you guys to show some respect towards what the Penguins have done to get this far. One poster in this thread said Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. Now come on. Take your Red Wings glasses off and come in touch with reality. There is no doubt Lidstrom is the best dman in the NHL and the World, but best player? Come on. It just seems like everyone here thinks all things Red Wings is the best and Penguins are nowhere near them. It's ridiculous.

I'm not sure I understand what is so amazing about asserting that Lidstrom is the best player in the NHL. You acknowledge he's the best d-man in the NHL, and in the world, but he's not the best player in the NHL? Can a d-man with extremely proficient defensive and offensive capabilities not be the best player in the NHL? It all depends on your definition of "best", I suppose, but I can't think of a more well-rounded player whether it be a d-man or forward.

Edited May 21, 2008 by Yzerman191

[Cern 0]

Not this garbage again.....

We sat Sid....with a bad ankle.....

And the entire time Sid was out Pens fans were masturbating furiously at how Pittsburgh is a team of mutant supermen even WITHOUT him. Which one is it?

[Rice 42]

Almost every announcer says Lidstrom is the best player in the game. Period.

Now, I know they dont watch as much hockey as you Pens fans do.

Let this guy find out for himself. He'll be left wondering what happened when he sees Crosby/Malkin/Hossa added to the following list:

- Dumont/Arnott

- Sakic/Stastny/Wolski/Smyth/Hejduk/Forsberg/Brunette

- Richards/Modano/Ribeiro/Morrow

Lidstrom has an uncanny way of making stars disappear. Granted, it's not all Lidstrom, but if Sergei Gonchar is running Detroit's defense, you can bet the guys listed above have more success.

Plus, Lidstrom has only averaged around 25 minutes per game so far. I'm sure Sidney & Co. will enjoy seeing him on the ice for over half the game this series.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Offended, not at all. Just saying how wrong you are. I'm not underestimating Brooks Orpik, he isnt very good. Dont get me wrong, I'd take him on my team, but if you want him and Gill to shutdown Zetterberg and Datsyuk....

Hahah, your using our division as an example? I thought we'd be past this. We finished under .500 in our bad division, while winning the Western Conference, what does that mean? We dominated everyone else in the West. Besides, we didnt throw a game to get 2nd in the conference when we could've had 1st, that my friend is very deserving of playing Ottawa.

Ok ok. This tanking this complete and utter BS. No NHL team just tanks a game. Do you realize the statistics in that game against the Flyers?

1) We played everyone but Crosby in that game. If we really wanted to tank wouldn't we have scratched Malkin, Gonchar, and Fleury as well?

2) Flyers beat us 2-0 (1 goal was an EN)

3) The Flyers only outshot the Pens 22-20

So, what you're saying is, just because our star player wasn't playing and a few words from Cryin Bryan Murray about us tanking, means we actually tanked? Trust me, we would have been comfortable playing any team in the first round. I think we took care of the Flyers rather easily, we were not scared to play them. And knowing the competitive nature and the willingness to win attitude from our 20 year old captain, he would never want us to tank a game. You play every game to win. And I think it is very insulting and unfair to consider that a tanked game. Utter BS.

[NHLrules? 32]

Let this guy find out for himself. He'll be left wondering what happened when he sees Crosby/Malkin/Hossa added to the following list:

- Dumont/Arnott

- Sakic/Stastny/Wolski/Smyth/Hejduk/Forsberg/Brunette

- Richards/Modano/Ribeiro/Morrow

Lidstrom has an uncanny way of making stars disappear. Granted, it's not all Lidstrom, but if Sergei Gonchar is running Detroit's defense, you can bet the guys listed above have more success.

Plus, Lidstrom has only averaged around 25 minutes per game so far. I'm sure Sidney & Co. will enjoy seeing him on the ice for over half the game this series.

Hell be shocked when Draper and Helm shut down Malkin or Cindy line. And Lids is serving up beach balls for Homer to tip in.

I saw in here someone say he could find a player who can match or betters any on dertroit.

Who do they have to compare Holmstrom, Cleary, Maltby, Kronwall, Filpula? Seems like a whole lot of spead and grit to account for.

[Rice 42]

It all depends on your definition of "best", I suppose, but I can't think of a more well-rounded player whether it be a d-man or forward.

That's because there isn't one. Until Crosby/Malkin can play 30 minutes per game while running a team's offense and simultaneously shutting down the best players in hockey night after night, Lidstrom is the best player in the world.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

That's because there isn't one. Until Crosby/Malkin can play 30 minutes per game while running a team's offense and simultaneously shutting down the best players in hockey night after night, Lidstrom is the best player in the world.

Well it's not in the job prescription for guys like Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin to shut down opponents each and every night. I can say the same thing about Niklas Lidstrom that unless he puts up 100 points every season, he shouldn't be considered the best player in the NHL. There is a very fine line between being the best defenseman in the world and being the best player in the world. When people think about the best players in the world, they look at stats, goals, assists, points. They don't look at how a guy shuts an opponent down each and every night and they don't even look at +/- .

The bottomline is, Niklas Lidstrom is absolutely unbelievable. One of the best Dmen I have ever seen. The guy brings it every night. But when you look at skill level and ask just about any hockey fan outside of Detroit who the best players in the world are, just about all of them will pick a forward. And skillwise, stride for stride, I don't think that there are many who matchup with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin. These are the guys who will bring hockey to a new level.

[Cern 0]

Us Pens fans are just looking for you guys to show some respect towards what the Penguins have done to get this far.

Playing against a Sens team a peewee girls team could have sweeped?

Sorry, having Sid shoved down my throat at EVERY opportunity humanly possible by every advertiser and sportscaster in the league is sapping my respect if not for the franchise as a whole than definitely for him. Particularly when Ovechkin is a shoo-in for all of the silverware Crosby won (and is so without nearly as much help from his 'supporting cast'), does so with more on-ice charisma and passion, yet constantly gets shoved into Crosby's shadow because the NHL's front office would rather kill themselves than let a Russian be the face of the league. All of the talent with none of the selling-out.

[Rice 42]

Well it's not in the job prescription for guys like Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin to shut down opponents each and every night. I can say the same thing about Niklas Lidstrom that unless he puts up 100 points every season, he shouldn't be considered the best player in the NHL. There is a very fine line between being the best defenseman in the world and being the best player in the world. When people think about the best players in the world, they look at stats, goals, assists, points. They don't look at how a guy shuts an opponent down each and every night and they don't even look at +/- .

The bottomline is, Niklas Lidstrom is absolutely unbelievable. One of the best Dmen I have ever seen. The guy brings it every night. But when you look at skill level and ask just about any hockey fan outside of Detroit who the best players in the world are, just about all of them will pick a forward. And skillwise, stride for stride, I don't think that there are many who matchup with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin. These are the guys who will bring hockey to a new level.

Sure, raw-talent there's no comparison. Crosby, Malkin, and Ovechkin are the cream of the crop in that department. Unfortunately for them, elite defensemen are more important than elite forwards. A defenseman's job encompasses more responsibilities. Nick is elite in each department. I believe that makes him the best player in the world.

[NHLrules? 32]

Well it's not in the job prescription for guys like Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin to shut down opponents each and every night. I can say the same thing about Niklas Lidstrom that unless he puts up 100 points every season, he shouldn't be considered the best player in the NHL. There is a very fine line between being the best defenseman in the world and being the best player in the world. When people think about the best players in the world, they look at stats, goals, assists, points. They don't look at how a guy shuts an opponent down each and every night and they don't even look at +/- .

The bottomline is, Niklas Lidstrom is absolutely unbelievable. One of the best Dmen I have ever seen. The guy brings it every night. But when you look at skill level and ask just about any hockey fan outside of Detroit who the best players in the world are, just about all of them will pick a forward. And skillwise, stride for stride, I don't think that there are many who matchup with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin. These are the guys who will bring hockey to a new level.

I assume you mean description?

If Crosby and Malkin have the career Lids does, we can talk then. Hell lets see what happens when the East tightens up the D again like they did in the mid to late 90s.

No doubt Crosby is good, but lets get real here. People said the same things about Lindros, Kariya and Gaborik--- howd it turn out for those guys?

[Cern 0]

So, what you're saying is, just because our star player wasn't playing and a few words from Cryin Bryan Murray about us tanking, means we actually tanked?

No, getting shut out means you tanked. Let alone getting shut out against Biron.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

Playing against a Sens team a peewee girls team could have sweeped?

Sorry, having Sid shoved down my throat at EVERY opportunity humanly possible by every advertiser and sportscaster in the league is sapping my respect if not for the franchise as a whole than definitely for him. Particularly when Ovechkin is a shoo-in for all of the silverware Crosby won (and is so without nearly as much help from his 'supporting cast'), does so with more on-ice charisma and passion, yet constantly gets shoved into Crosby's shadow because the NHL's front office would rather kill themselves than let a Russian be the face of the league. All of the talent with none of the selling-out.

It's not even that. It's just that there are so many on here that believe that the Wings are gonna walk all over the Penguins. You guys make it seem like it would be useless for the Penguins to even dress up to play in the Finals because nobody can skate on the same ice as the Red Wings. And it's also the fact a lot of folks here don't respect a lot of the players on the Penguins. A lot of which people here have barely seen any games of. You guys underestimate the importance of character guys like Gonchar, Orpik, Hossa, Scuderi, and even Fleury. I'm not going to sit here and point out fingers at Wings players. Cause I respect a lot of them. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski, etc... are phenomenal talents, but I'm not gonna sit here and say that the Wings are going to be dominated by the Pens and that Zetterberg and Datsyuk can't skate on the same ice as Malkin and Crosby. Because I do realize Zetterberg and Datsyuk are as close to the skill level of Malkin and Crosby as there is in the NHL.

[HeyNow71871929 0]

No, getting shut out means you tanked. Let alone getting shut out against Biron.

So, you're saying the Ottawa Senators tanked in Game One against the Pens? You're saying the New York Rangers tanked in Game Two against the Penguins? Are you also saying that the Philadelphia Flyers, in desperation must-win mode, in Game 5 tanked against the Penguins? Are you also saying the Red Wings tanked when the Blues and Stars shut you out in the regular season?

[NHLrules? 32]

So, you're saying the Ottawa Senators tanked in Game One against the Pens? You're saying the New York Rangers tanked in Game Two against the Penguins? Are you also saying that the Philadelphia Flyers, in desperation must-win mode, in Game 5 tanked against the Penguins? Are you also saying the Red Wings tanked when the Blues and Stars shut you out in the regular season?

Game five had to be the worst display of playoff hockey I have ever seen. Philly looked like a High School team.

Maybe worst played NHL game I have ever seen.

[Yzerman191 37]

Well it's not in the job prescription for guys like Malkin, Crosby, or Ovechkin to shut down opponents each and every night. I can say the same thing about Niklas Lidstrom that unless he puts up 100 points every season, he shouldn't be considered the best player in the NHL. There is a very fine line between being the best defenseman in the world and being the best player in the world. When people think about the best players in the world, they look at stats, goals, assists, points. They don't look at how a guy shuts an opponent down each and every night and they don't even look at +/- .

The bottomline is, Niklas Lidstrom is absolutely unbelievable. One of the best Dmen I have ever seen. The guy brings it every night. But when you look at skill level and ask just about any hockey fan outside of Detroit who the best players in the world are, just about all of them will pick a forward. And skillwise, stride for stride, I don't think that there are many who matchup with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, or Ovechkin. These are the guys who will bring hockey to a new level.

When determining who the best player in the world is, the only statistics you should take into account are goals, assists, and points? Does that mean that Mike Ribeiro, Jason Pominville, Shane Doan, Henrik Sedin, etc. are all better than Nick Lidstrom? They all had more points, and more goals. However we can all clearly see that in asserting any of those players are better than Nick Lidstrom, we would be making a ridiculously asinine statement. I don't know how long you've been watching hockey (and I'm honestly not trying to bash you on a personal level) but points, goals, and assists are certainly NOT the only factors in determining who is or is not the best player. Players have all sorts of things going for them: Jerome Iginla and Joe Thornton are two premier power fowards in the game today, and both among the best offensive talents in the NHL. Sidney Crosby and Alexander Ovechkin are certainly two of the most talented individuals in the NHL, and have remarkable offensive skills. Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg are also two of the best in the league in the offensive department, yet I think it's safe to say they are the most defensively-capable of any of the forwards listed (check the Selke nominations). And Nick Lidstrom is unarguably the best d-man in the league, and almost a point-per-game as well. He leads our defense-corps, he leads in ice time, he shuts down the top forwards for every opposing team, he's on the point on the PP, he's out there when we're shorthanded, etc. I really can't comprehend why it seems unfathomable to you to call Nick Lidstrom the best player in the world, unless you really are in fact basing your definition off of goals, assists, and points.

[Cern 0]

It's not even that. It's just that there are so many on here that believe that the Wings are gonna walk all over the Penguins. You guys make it seem like it would be useless for the Penguins to even dress up to play in the Finals because nobody can skate on the same ice as the Red Wings. And it's also the fact a lot of folks here don't respect a lot of the players on the Penguins. A lot of which people here have barely seen any games of. You guys underestimate the importance of character guys like Gonchar, Orpik, Hossa, Scuderi, and even Fleury. I'm not going to sit here and point out fingers at Wings players. Cause I respect a lot of them. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rafalski, etc... are phenomenal talents, but I'm not gonna sit here and say that the Wings are going to be dominated by the Pens and that Zetterberg and Datsyuk can't skate on the same ice as Malkin and Crosby. Because I do realize Zetterberg and Datsyuk are as close to the skill level of Malkin and Crosby as there is in the NHL.

I obviously can't speak for everybody, but I for one never called for a Wings sweep/near-sweep. I never predict round numbers in the first place because it always results in ridiculous numbers being shouted out. It should be obvious that Detroit will have a bigger challenge with Pittsburgh than any other teams they've faced, and that the case is vice versa as well. But you also can't deny that the media has absolutely SATURATED the entire league in terms of marketing and sports commentary. I've encountered even Pens fans who are sick and tired of every single sports update on the evening news revolving entirely around Crosby's status. You mention respect towards Zetterberg, Datsyuk, etc etc, but for all intents and purposes nobody gives those players anywhere close to the kinds of considerations doled out to Sid. If anything the image the media in its near-entirety has given is that it's the Wings who are wasting their time even bothering to suit up, and ultimately that voice easily drowns out the voice coming from some small fan forum.

The point being made here is that the gap between Pittsburgh's offense and Detroit's defense isn't as wide as Detroit's offense is to Pittsburgh's defense. Hell, if ANY team in the league has a back end capable of solving Croskinssa, it's the Wings'. That imbalance could very well prove the determining factor in this series because lets face it, Fleury is no Turco, and the Wings have been able to solve Turco.

[DaKineMaui 8]

I'm just pissed because the Wings make the Cup Finals, and it's gotta be the WORST series possible. It's gonna go 4 games. Damnit.

They gotta defend 1(one) line? Cripes. Was hoping for more entertainment.

What happened Habs?

[Cern 0]

So, you're saying the Ottawa Senators tanked in Game One against the Pens? You're saying the New York Rangers tanked in Game Two against the Penguins? Are you also saying that the Philadelphia Flyers, in desperation must-win mode, in Game 5 tanked against the Penguins? Are you also saying the Red Wings tanked when the Blues and Stars shut you out in the regular season?

Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Unless the competing defense/goalie has been absolutely spectacular (Note that Ottawa, NY, Philly, St. Louis, and to a slightly lesser extent Dallas didn't do that in your examples) failing to get even a single goal after 60 minutes of play demonstrates a team that simply dosen't have the will /mind / desire to get the job done. Malkin's pathetic penalty shot in game 4 against NY comes to mind.

[Cern 0]

HAHAHAHA

Gatorade ads featuring a shootout that never actually occured, at that.

[Guest Crymson]

I sense a banhammer coming up soon for you from one of the mods, Mr. '33.' I feel sorry for you that you're so cheeky as to register on another team's forum purely to flame them and make destructive posts.

[Guest Crymson]

I think Marian Hossa IS THE BEST BACKCHECKER IN THE GAME. He just sneaks up behind you, lifts your stick, and takes the puck away in one smooth motion. And boom 2 strides the other way and no one is going to catch him. Oh well, who am I to be telling you guys all this. You all will find out soon enough what I am talkign about.

I'm sorry, is Marian Hossa up for the Selke? No.

It's funny that you speak about Hossa taking away the pucks from others. I believe Mike Modano was second in takeaways... and he had 44 less than Datsyuk. How far down was Hossa on that list?

I do believe you're very alone--not only on these forums, but in general--in thinking that Hossa is a better defensive player than is Datsyuk or Zetterberg. We'll find out soon enough what you're talking about? It's clear you haven't watched any Wings games, so why are you saying this?

For the record, I HAVE watched Hossa play, and he IS a good backchecker... but he's nowhere near as hard-working as Zetterberg or Datsyuk, and he's nowhere near as defensively intelligent. Meanwhile, they put up offensive numbers equal to or better than he.

[reggiedunlop 0]

Offended, not at all. Just saying how wrong you are. I'm not underestimating Brooks Orpik, he isnt very good. Dont get me wrong, I'd take him on my team, but if you want him and Gill to shutdown Zetterberg and Datsyuk....

Hahah, your using our division as an example? I thought we'd be past this. We finished under .500 in our bad division, while winning the Western Conference, what does that mean? We dominated everyone else in the West. Besides, we didnt throw a game to get 2nd in the conference when we could've had 1st, that my friend is very deserving of playing Ottawa.

you have now lost all credibility.......... we lost a one goal game (i dont count the empty net)to philly and don cherry says we threw the game so you buy it!!

you can tell we were terrified of philly from the way they werent even a speed bump in the ecf......

orpik isnt very good but you would take him on your team????? ............ come back later with some intelligent stuff and maybe we can talk again.

[reggiedunlop 0]

This is pathetic. Whitney will never win Norris, 'cos after Nick you will have Dion Phaneuf, Jack Johnson, Duncan Keith etc. Whitney will never be as good as Phaneuf is right now. And please check your info: Gonchar is not a candidate this year. Norris nominees 2008: Lidstrom, Chara, Phaneuf. Plus, Rafalski is at least as good as Gonchar. Kronner and Stuart are better than Orpik, Whitney & Co. It seems that PIT has better D

sorry for my mistake on the norris gonchar nomination.......... stuart is not better than orpik...... but my opinion does not really matter...... i do have a question though.

how DID you guys lose any games this year? :-)