Johan Franzen

[wingsownnhl43 14]

lighten up ... you're the one who started this thread, calling out one of our players and insinuating he's soft, questioning his heart and why he isn't playing, and in the process bringing up the same old tired stereotype that all europeans are soft ... nobody here has told you anything you couldn't have figured out on your own ... why start this thread?

The reason I started the thread is because Franzen has said he's ready and also Babs said he is ready to play him, yet the doctors won't clear him. He has practiced, worked out, and said it has went fine. Part of me thought if he's ready and practicing with no side affects, then play, screw the doctors it's the SCFs. The other part thought, as most of you thought, that head injuries are nothing to mess with. The fact that I wavered back and forth, I thought merited a discussion.

As for the second part of your post, I don't think that all Europeans are soft. I will say, as a whole, I think Euros are softer than North American players though.

[Reilly 24]

Part of me thought if he's ready and practicing with no side affects, then play, screw the doctors it's the SCFs.

There's nothing to discuses. You never, under any circumstance, go against your doctor's orders.

[timsummers 0]

It seems like everyone has been really understanding about him not playing, and rightfully so, he was arguably our best player down the stretch. But, literally no one on this board has taken the antagonistic opinion.

I, however, am somewhat upset that he is out for game 1 against Pittsburgh. I understood that we didnt want to take any risks with him against Dallas, as we clearly outmatched them and that doctors wouldnt even let him practice, but my god, this is the Stanley Cup Finals. I thought hockey was the sport where players gutted it out and played without the OK from the doctors? He says he feels fine, he is practicing, why can't you play in game one of a CHAMPIONSHIP round? Isn't this why you play the game? What every hockey player dreams of?

Don't get me wrong, I love Franzen, I think he is an awesome player, but i kind of want him to be that player that refuses to be taken off the ice. Who knows, maybe it's just the European mind set.

Does anyone else echo my thoughts, or am i totally off base?

wow did you ever just make a lot of enemies with this post....so....europeans arent as passionate about the game as...what....canadians? thats a crock of s*** and im REALLY sick of hearing it.

franzen has a HEAD INJURY. like a previous member said...its not like its a foot or hand injury...if he has something seriously wrong with his brain he could die on the ice. even if he wanted to play and possibly risk his life the coaches and staff wont let him on the ice without the OK from the doctors. its as simple as that.

dont criticize his passion or want to win because of this. it makes you sound like a fool.

take some time and think before you make such an ignorant thread.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

There's nothing to discuses. You never, under any circumstance, go against your doctor's orders.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:IClXY...lient=firefox-a

Some people risk their careers with injuries. You CAN play without medical clearance.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

There's nothing to discuses. You never, under any circumstance, go against your doctor's orders.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:IClXY...lient=firefox-a

Some people risk their careers with injuries. You CAN play without medical clearance.

[betterREDthandead 58]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:IClXY...lient=firefox-a

Some people risk their careers with injuries. You CAN play without medical clearance.

Playing on a bad ankle risks your career. Playing with an unknown head injury risks your life. I hope you can tell the difference.

Here's another case where the player and coaches went against doctor's orders (by cutting back on his meds and having him play through the difficulties.)

[shanny is the man 0]

It seems like everyone has been really understanding about him not playing, and rightfully so, he was arguably our best player down the stretch. But, literally no one on this board has taken the antagonistic opinion.

I, however, am somewhat upset that he is out for game 1 against Pittsburgh. I understood that we didnt want to take any risks with him against Dallas, as we clearly outmatched them and that doctors wouldnt even let him practice, but my god, this is the Stanley Cup Finals. I thought hockey was the sport where players gutted it out and played without the OK from the doctors? He says he feels fine, he is practicing, why can't you play in game one of a CHAMPIONSHIP round? Isn't this why you play the game? What every hockey player dreams of?

Don't get me wrong, I love Franzen, I think he is an awesome player, but i kind of want him to be that player that refuses to be taken off the ice. Who knows, maybe it's just the European mind set.

Does anyone else echo my thoughts, or am i totally off base?

The "European mind set"?....WTF does that mean?

[wingsownnhl43 14]

Playing on a bad ankle risks your career. Playing with an unknown head injury risks your life. I hope you can tell the difference.

Here's another case where the player and coaches went against doctor's orders (by cutting back on his meds and having him play through the difficulties.)

I think we've established that a head injury is different from an ankle injury. I was merely responded to Reilly's post saying you can never go against doctors orders when in all actuality, you can.

[hamip1998 3]

I think we've established that a head injury is different from an ankle injury. I was merely responded to Reilly's post saying you can never go against doctors orders when in all actuality, you can.

Has anyone considered that the Wings' MEDICAL INSURANCE company could deny coverage if he plays without doctors clearance? This puts the Illich's in an ugly spot. What if Mule plays, becomes a vegetable (extreme and highly unlikely scenario), and his next of kin decides to sue them for every piece of pepperoni that they own on the grounds that the evil Hockeytown empire strong-armed poor Johan into playing before he was medically cleared to play?

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Some people risk their careers with injuries. You CAN play without medical clearance.

It is just a game. It does not really matter. If Franzen does not play nobody is going to die (well, I can't really know that for sure). Winning the Cup is not the end of life. Doctors can fix everything just yet.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Has anyone considered that the Wings' MEDICAL INSURANCE company could deny coverage if he plays without doctors clearance? This puts the Illich's in an ugly spot. What if Mule plays, becomes a vegetable (extreme and highly unlikely scenario), and his next of kin decides to sue them for every piece of pepperoni that they own on the grounds that the evil Hockeytown empire strong-armed poor Johan into playing before he was medically cleared to play?

Very good point. In this country you try not to screw with insurance and their lawyers.

[Reilly 24]

Some people risk their careers with injuries.

Ok...and how does argue against my statement?

[Guest Crymson]

Gee, great---yet another retarded thread written by yet another fellow who feels the need to find something to ***** about no matter how well the team is doing.

Great. Really.

[jvxp 0]

It seems like everyone has been really understanding about him not playing, and rightfully so, he was arguably our best player down the stretch. But, literally no one on this board has taken the antagonistic opinion.

I, however, am somewhat upset that he is out for game 1 against Pittsburgh. I understood that we didnt want to take any risks with him against Dallas, as we clearly outmatched them and that doctors wouldnt even let him practice, but my god, this is the Stanley Cup Finals. I thought hockey was the sport where players gutted it out and played without the OK from the doctors? He says he feels fine, he is practicing, why can't you play in game one of a CHAMPIONSHIP round? Isn't this why you play the game? What every hockey player dreams of?

Don't get me wrong, I love Franzen, I think he is an awesome player, but i kind of want him to be that player that refuses to be taken off the ice. Who knows, maybe it's just the European mind set.

Does anyone else echo my thoughts, or am i totally off base?

I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that he is European. I think you are just way off base. Should we throw Fischer back out to? He is feeling fine.

[Redwingsfan18 1]

I know what its like for Franzen/Fisher. I broke my neck playing Hockey, had surgery and can resume doing anything a normal person can, EXCEPT play football/hockey/soccer or any sport that involves a chance with hurting my neck. Obviously I could play and may not get hurt, but in the scheme of life, it's just not worth the risk. Same with Franzen, this injury wasn't/isn't career threatening but if gone untreated, it could be life threatening, and at the end of the day, your life is much more important then your job, especially when your job is to play a sport.

[jvxp 0]

I know what its like for Franzen/Fisher. I broke my neck playing Hockey, had surgery and can resume doing anything a normal person can, EXCEPT play football/hockey/soccer or any sport that involves a chance with hurting my neck. Obviously I could play and may not get hurt, but in the scheme of life, it's just not worth the risk. Same with Franzen, this injury wasn't/isn't career threatening but if gone untreated, it could be life threatening, and at the end of the day, your life is much more important then your job, especially when your job is to play a sport.

Very well said. I agree.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

It seems like everyone has been really understanding about him not playing, and rightfully so, he was arguably our best player down the stretch. But, literally no one on this board has taken the antagonistic opinion.

I, however, am somewhat upset that he is out for game 1 against Pittsburgh. I understood that we didnt want to take any risks with him against Dallas, as we clearly outmatched them and that doctors wouldnt even let him practice, but my god, this is the Stanley Cup Finals. I thought hockey was the sport where players gutted it out and played without the OK from the doctors? He says he feels fine, he is practicing, why can't you play in game one of a CHAMPIONSHIP round? Isn't this why you play the game? What every hockey player dreams of?

Don't get me wrong, I love Franzen, I think he is an awesome player, but i kind of want him to be that player that refuses to be taken off the ice. Who knows, maybe it's just the European mind set.

Does anyone else echo my thoughts, or am i totally off base?

I haven't read the 4 pages so I apologize for re-hashing points...

What is this European mindset that you are describing? Care to elaborate?

And forgive me if this comes out jerkish...but are you a qualified or trained doctor, and one that specifically works and examines the players? I am betting very little or none of us are qualified to make such decisions.

I understand this is the time of year to play through pain and you try to play by any means necessary mentally and physically. But if doctors cannot or will not clear somebody to play, you don't play, simple as that. As much as I want the Wings to win the Cup, the health of a person is much more important.

I'm betting it is eating away at Franzen not being in there and there's probably nobody more than himself who wants to get back out there more badly than him.

What about Stu Barnes last series for Dallas? He had "concussion-like" symptoms and he was out for that entire series. He's a perfect example of a hard-working blue-collar kinda guy for hockey with his play. Should he be chastized as well for the doctor's decision not to let him play?

No clearance though, no play.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

im with you, as they have been saying its just headaches.what the heack you cant play with a headache.tests have shown nothing.bottom line take some bayer and go get that trophy.

i dont see why everyone is bashing on you now. ITS A HEADACHE!

go wings

See above.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I appreciate the responses of most of the posters in this thread who decided to respond in a respectful manner, without name calling or smart a$$ comments. I'm not into that, I don't think it adds to any discussion. I post on here to feel out other peoples thoughts. I know I'm not always right and that sometimes my thoughts are off base.

I just can't understand why Franzen gets a free pass without anyone questioning the injury at all. I know I'm not a doctor and that I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. I also know that a concussion is a serious injury and is nothing to mess around with, but like Maltbymaniac said, all thats been reported are headaches and concussion like symptoms, not a full blown concussion. I've had mild concussions before and none of them lingered 13-15 days. I don't think it's ignorant to simply call him out. The people on here that are getting so defensive are only doing so because they cant fathom that their newly beloved star could possibly be a china doll.

He's not getting a free pass.

It is the doctor's decision. If the doctor doesn't clear him, he doesn't play.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Not true, I've heard many stories of athletes refusing to listen to their doctors. However, i do understand Seeinred's response. I can totally understand that.

You've "heard"?? Well damn that seals the deal for me

Any examples?

Better yet, any examples involving head injuries???

[Dabura 12,232]

What is this garbage?

Franzen doesn't really have a choice; he's not a doctor, there are probably insurance issues, and oh yeah -- he could be risking his life if he returns prematurely.

I had to give up my hockey career -- which, not to brag, was very bright -- because of a potentially life-threatening medical concern. It's not an easy position to be in, trust me.

[VM1138 1,921]

Two things:

1) Players have no say over whether or not they play. Doctor's have to clear them.

2) Death is not an "injury" to be played through.

[gcom007 1,465]

I agree with the majority hear that you can't chance head injuries and it's the doctors call in such cases and I'm totally cool with that.

That said, I wouldn't be shocked to "shockingly" see him in the lineup tonight. I don't think anyone's above media manipulation...and what a admittedly minor-league ***** for Pittsburgh it would be to suddenly have the Playoff goal scoring leader back when they were certain they wouldn't have him at least for game 1.

I'm not judging the situation, just saying...I wouldn't be shocked...

[edicius 3,269]

Not true, I've heard many stories of athletes refusing to listen to their doctors. However, i do understand Seeinred's response. I can totally understand that.

Eric Lindros.

'nuff said.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

I think it's the right call not to play him. Way too many great players (i.e. Lindross) have ruined their careers by rushing back from head injuries, and thats the last thing I want to see happen to Mule.