embellishment

[edicius 3,269]

If our guys were embellishing, they still got nothing on Ribeiro.

[Probert 5 For Fighting 0]

I've been annoyed with it since Ozzie flopped like noone has flopped before on that Ribiero slash. However, it is part of the game, and I commend Babcock for schooling them well on this stuff. If this is how the new NHL will be called, this is how they're going to take advantage of it. Changes will happen years down the line, but until then, flop away and instigate. Just don't think we're any more classy than anybody else, because diving is just as crappy as cheapshots in the class department.

[arpawocky 0]

I've been annoyed with it since Ozzie flopped like noone has flopped before on that Ribiero slash. However, it is part of the game, and I commend Babcock for schooling them well on this stuff. If this is how the new NHL will be called, this is how they're going to take advantage of it. Changes will happen years down the line, but until then, flop away and instigate. Just don't think we're any more classy than anybody else, because diving is just as crappy as cheapshots in the class department.

I'll agree that Ozzie has been dramatic on this playoff run. But I can't remember any skater that has taken a dive. I would like to hear people's honest opinion on this. But I just don't see our guys diving.

My philosophy on diving is it should result in a heavy fine. If your an elite player and you can't stay on your skates any better than the kid at Taco Bell, maybe you shouldn't be paid any more than him.

[lfd250 1]

Pack your bags, either you're a wings fan or not. Did ozzie dive, yes. if you want to talk about all the stuff that happen away from the camera, then we can talk. Was at the game last night and I doubt it showed half the stuff that they did to ozzie. Second you have a guy hit Mule in the head ON PURPOSE knowing he has a concussion, gutless.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

It wasnt the hit that hurt him, he fell on the middle post of the net when he got bumped.

[pits200 0]

Pens fan here...

The penalties mean nothing, even though there were a couple flops from the Wing players, people still thoroughly recognize the dominance of the Wings regardless of some "weak" penalty calls.

If this was a closer series in the first two games, I might have a gripe with the officiating.

But, its not like the Power Play has been whats killing the Pens even though it does crush momentum.

Let me tell you what the Wings do better than any team I have ever seen.

Their transition game is ridiculous, that is the difference in this series. Your defensemen get the puck to mid ice and boom, its gone.

Very impressive playing from the Wings, I can't even put up an argument for the Pens.

Also, I guess all the conspiracy theorists can shut up now about Bettman.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Ozzy definitely embellished, but it's what goalies do to make sure a call is made when they get run.

Mainly though, you're focusing on a few incidents where there may have been embellishment and overlooking all the plays where guys have taken slashes, shots to the head, and other cheapshots, all without faking anything.

[chuklz 15]

That is fine and dandy. I really don't care whether or not the Pens are diving, I would just rather not see my beloved redwings stooping to their level.

But I guess sometimes when the Pens are getting in a million cheap shots that aren't called maybe it is sometimes best to try to sell one now and again. I just wish the refs would could catch some more of these non-calls.

Whatever. You're just believing the Pittsburgh hype. They suck. They are getting dominated. We said they would. We knew they would. They can only point and cry "DIVER!" "FLOPPER" to take the focus off the fact that the Eastern Conference is for wimps and they are the school yard bullies of the Eastern Conference and they came head to head with a better team. Period. If the Pens weren't crying like babies, this thread wouldnt exist. I would wager we'd be seeing the same results if Dallas had made it to the SCF too. Exact same results.

Edited May 27, 2008 by chuklz

[pits200 0]

They can only point and cry "DIVER!" "FLOPPER"

You realize that 90% of your fellow forum members said this about Crosby and the Pens before the series started.

So all of a sudden its not fair for someone else to bring up this topic I'm not condoning it one bit, the penalties are not relevant to the series so far.

But don't be a damn hypocrit about how Bettman is going to give the Pens calls, and Crosby is a diver and make it such a big point of contention.. blah blah blah.

I dont know how many times I have heard these comments on this forum, now all of a sudden if someone brings it up about the Wings, its just a ridiculous thought.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

You realize that 90% of your fellow forum members said this about Crosby and the Pens before the series started.

So all of a sudden its not fair for someone else to bring up this topic I'm not condoning it one bit, the penalties are not relevant to the series so far.

But don't be a damn hypocrit about how Bettman is going to give the Pens calls, and Crosby is a diver and make it such a big point of contention.. blah blah blah.

I dont know how many times I have heard these comments on this forum, now all of a sudden if someone brings it up about the Wings, its just a ridiculous thought.

I've always thought the Crosby diving thing was totally overblown. He's embellished sometimes, but he's nowhere near the level of someone like Forsberg, or Avery.

He plays with a reckless abandon that causes him to go crashing around a lot. Holmstrom plays that way and falls down all the time too, though a lot of that is his terrible skating skills. But with Crosby the refs do seem to give him the benefit of the doubt when he goes down and it draws calls. That's not his fault though. And those usually aren't dives.

[stud_defenseman 1]

Whatever. You're just believing the Pittsburgh hype. They suck. They are getting dominated. We said they would. We knew they would. They can only point and cry "DIVER!" "FLOPPER" to take the focus off the fact that the Eastern Conference is for wimps and they are the school yard bullies of the Eastern Conference and they came head to head with a better team. Period. If the Pens weren't crying like babies, this thread wouldnt exist. I would wager we'd be seeing the same results if Dallas had made it to the SCF too. Exact same results.

I'm not sure how this has anything to do with the "pittsburgh hype", but I guess this thread is in response to whining. I don't want to give anyone an excuse to whine when all is said and done. Is that too much to ask?

[StevieY9802 6]

Blame the NHL for they are calling at times. Players aren't stupid if they are going to be calling the littlest of tugs from a stick or whatever they are gonna go down. For the most part I like that the NHL calls more of the stuff but the puck battles along the boards that get called bug the crap out of me sometimes.

As for Ozzie, the Malone contact, was a big flop but if Homer is getting penatlies for his stick in the crease then you might as well do it. The Sykora one was a clear hit. The fall I don't think he embellished but the after effects he probably did. The Wings get crap like that called against them all the time because of Homer's reputation. While I might not like it on that particular instance I blame the NHL for that. don't call non-calls against the Wings and maybe that won't happen.

[P. Marlowe 748]

Too bad all we can do is watch replays. We never get to inside the players' heads. You can never know if what happened was acting, or did it really hurt or if the player just stumbled.

Franzén fell in a strange way that's for sure, but I suppose he was hurt. What happened with Osgood is that it looked to me that he collided with Sykora, stumbled on the net and maybe hit his head. With Ribeiro slashing Osgood it seemed that it shouldn't hurt much, but who knows. I will never know what really happened and because of that I don't even try as it's worthless.

Some players (Forsberg, Crosby and Ribeiro for example) have reputation of being divers, but I don't know should they be conserned about that. Reputations are strange things and I don't know what they even matter.

[Graybeard 0]

You realize that 90% of your fellow forum members said this about Crosby and the Pens before the series started.

So all of a sudden its not fair for someone else to bring up this topic I'm not condoning it one bit, the penalties are not relevant to the series so far.

But don't be a damn hypocrit about how Bettman is going to give the Pens calls, and Crosby is a diver and make it such a big point of contention.. blah blah blah.

I dont know how many times I have heard these comments on this forum, now all of a sudden if someone brings it up about the Wings, its just a ridiculous thought.

Ozzie got hit AWAY from the play and tripped on the net falling to the ice. He got immediately back up to his feet. This has absolutely nothing in common with the way Crosby will go down like he's been headshot and curl up in the fetal position until the whistle blows. The bottom line is this, don't hit the guy after the puck is long gone and you won't have to worry about if he goes down easy or not. Your Pens have gotten away with murder for a long time by walking a fine line of playing a little fast and loose away from the puck and getting away with it with a little help from your friends. I can understand how they could get used to that and be frustrated when calls are made against them. Yes it sucks that teams have to embellish what are legitimate penalties because it's become commonplace for this crap to go uncalled. It was a good strategy to get retaliation calls so your PP could do your scoring for you, but now that the calls are being made you need to adjust and play a little more on the straight and narrrow.

[hak 21]

I'm not even sure if I've seen a goalie embellish more than ozzie has in this post-season. I don't like it at all and he's lost alot of respect from me because of that. Diving and overembelleshing is such a disgrace and it's the thing I hate the most in any sport. i think hockeyplayers has the most class of any sportsmen and i hate to see that diving is becoming more and more regular..

I watch alot of soccer and I can tell you that you won't find more diving and whining in any other sport on this planet. It ruins the games AND the sport itself.

That's why it's so nice to switch over to hockey - all players man up. No bitching (almost) no diving. Totally different from all the soccer divas. That's why it makes me sad to see that diving or embellishment gets more frequent in the nhl. I think it's a disgrace. What if hockey slowly develop to a soccer-like game where the outcome often decides due to horrible calls because of diving and embellishment? Nobodody wants that..

Edited May 27, 2008 by hak

[Hank 0]

stud_defenseman, I understand what you're saying.

It's apart of the game now and I don't like it -from the Wings or Pens. BUT, if everyone's doing it, and the league isn't going to do anything about it, then I guess it's necessary.

But I do remember a time when a player had to be shot in order to flop over. It's not like that anymore.

And yes, no matter what anyone says, Osgood was embelishing a lot of the falls he took. Of course he was getting bumped, but he was going down like he was shot with an Elephant gun. I have a hard time believing that everyone here defending him or the falling tactics of the Wings wouldn't be screaming bloody murder if it was happening against us.

[sdogg1m 3]

As much as I would love to believe that they aren't acting... I also have worked the past two games. Basically, the players need to be mugged at least three times for the ref to even take a second look.

I saw Datsyuk be held, Z get tripped, and even Lidstrom get cross checked. I am thinking that they are only embelishing because the OLD fashioned way just isn't working for them.

Great point! We are analyzing three plays in a SIXTY minute game. How many times did the Red Wings get hit and didn't dive?

[Opie 308]

How about Ozzie sticking his arm out in front of Sykora, you mean to tell me that wasn't intentional.

I am not saying Ozzie is a diver and whiner, of course I didn't say that about Crosby or anyone other than Floppa, but he did help that call.

Was it smart on his behalf, YES!!

Is it part of the game, YES!!

Does it make a diver/cheap player/ etc. no, unfortunately embellishing a call gets you the call. As long as it doesn't turn into Euro soccer (I am a fan before you think I am digging soccer) I am ok!

I would much rather not see it happen, but more often than not the team that doesn't do it ends up on the short end of the stick, so I say good for the goose, good for the gander!

[Electrophile 3,554]

If our guys were embellishing, they still got nothing on Ribeiro.

Oh god.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

stud_defenseman, I know exactly what you are talking about. While I don't feel like getting into a long debate about which plays are dives and which are for reason, I will say that it irks me to when the acting comes into play. Again, I'm not calling out any specific instances, but when a player knowingly embellishes, it does look ridiculous and embarrassing.

I.E. My younger brother has played upper level soccer since he was 8 years old, and being the big brother I've always told him that the thing that bothers me most about Soccer is the blatant embellishments. A little off topic, but I told him at a young age that if I ever catch him doing that in a game, I'll personally give him a little ass-kicking when he got home. Nevertheless, I always used to take pride in the fact that this was one of the major differences between Hockey and Soccer. I was proud that Hockey players never seemed to do that sort of nonsense.

Unfortunately, enter the new NHL and the "new" Hooking and Obstruction penalties. I think it took players about a season before they really picked up on this, and now its seems to be becoming more prevalent. The first season back, you didn't see as much acting because the refs simply called everything. Now, its seems that the refs have hidden their whistles on these types of plays just slightly, but enough to get players to try and draw the same type of weak calls they were getting that first year.

TBH, its really sad and I hope the league really does a better job at calling the diving penalties. Honestly, if the league would enforce the diving penalty more frequently the embellishment would go away very quickly.

[Datsyerberger 279]

If Ozzie wasn't getting singled out and repeatedly run by the Pittsburgh players, he would have no need to embellish.

Chew on that one a bit and come back with a new argument.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

If Ozzie wasn't getting singled out and repeatedly run by the Pittsburgh players, he would have no need to embellish.

Chew on that one a bit and come back with a new argument.

I'm not saying Ozzie is or isn't diving, but making the argument that Ozzie is embellishing only because he's being repeatedly ran isn't a good justification. That's like saying, I only steal from people because other people steal from me. It doesn't make it right for either party.

[tweekvp 0]

Even though it is mine, as well as the team's best interest for them to continue to win, I am starting to get a bit frusterated with some of their means of doing so. I understand that embellishment has become a part of the game simply for the fact that players want the refs to notice when they are being interfered with / obstructed / hooked or whatever else, and in this sense it is somewhat necessary. If a player is in any way illegally interfering with your ability to play the game it is obviously in your best interest that the referees become aware of it. However, I think this is being taken too far at times. Osgood, who I never had previously identified as a flopper, has looked very hasek-like so far in the playoffs as there have been two very obvious incidents where he has tried to embellish the play such as with the Ribeiro incident and the Talbot penalty (and to a lesser extent the penalty on Malone as well). I am not saying that these were not penalties (because they were) I am only saying that the extra theatrics really are somewhat embarrassing to myself, a diehard wings fan. the Ribeiro incident in particular was extremely embarassing as there was no way in hell that a slash to the chest could have that kind of effect on a goaltender. Even the shot from Roberts on Franzen, though it was certainly unwarranted and potentially dangerous, seemed to be embellished by the Mule.

Basically, the problem for me is that some of these plays are giving our hard working, and talented players an image that is not so flattering. And even though ultimately the most important thing is winning the Stanley Cup, for me I would like this win to be free from any blemishes. I don't want to give anyone a reason to criticize us for our victory, I want everyone around the league to recognize us for being the best team this year, not a team that likes to dive.

People on LGW refer to the Colorado Avalanche as being a team with a bunch of divers for a reason... because they were often guilty of diving. Don't think for one second that the Avs fans are going to spare us of similar criticism in the future.

We can win without it! Go Wings!

I have no problem with a goalie embellishing any hostile actions toward them. The goalies are less mobile and at a disadvantage when if comes to defending themselves. If you have to embellish to get the refs and your teammates attention then do it.

As far as Franzen goes I'll make you a deal. I'll were some hockey gloves come up behind you and sucker punch you in the side of the head. If you act like nothing happened I'll concede the point.

[DallasStars 0]

Franzen's initial reaction to the punch was natural. It was only after he spotted the ref did he begin his embellishment.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Franzen's initial reaction to the punch was natural. It was only after he spotted the ref did he begin his embellishment.

Shouldn't you be on the golf course watching Modano and Hull tee off?