Officiating

[Hank 0]

My sentiments exactly. As I posted in another thread, I think most of the complaining about the officials, especially from the people who think the league is somehow out to get the Detroit Red Wings, is ridiculous. But the calls in this series screamed, "make it go 7 games," a bit too loudly for my tastes.

It certainly doesn't help when you consider how great the ratings have been.

My biggest disappointment is seeing how the officiating seemed to degrade to pre-lockout standards.

All in all, the entire Final's was played with more interference, that went uncalled, than any other games since the lockout.

And that includes both teams. I have no problems with playing rough in front of the net, but too many times I saw a Red Wing or Penguin take out a player who wasn't even close to the puck or near the net.

I'm just paranoid we're going to get back to games where waterskiing through the neutral zone occurs more than goals.

Edited June 5, 2008 by Hank

[MonkeyGoalie 14]

My dad was concerned that if we played the Pens because of the way they were officiated in the 2nd round when they played the Rangers. He thought that the Pens were getting most of the calls in favor of them. He never gets feeling like that, he's always saying you have to be in the refs skates to see the play from their angle. So when he makes comments like that I know that the officiating needs to be looked at for the upcoming season.

I would like to see little ref conferences when it comes down to a penalty called by the back ref just to make sure that the right call will be made, if any should be made. It shouldn't take too much time out of the game to try to make an effort into calling the penalty.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I can guarantee you Penguins could easily make claims that the Red Wings got away with more as well. Overall correct me if I'm wrong, Detroit had more PPs in the series.

Look I'm with everybody that the officiating is inconsistent. It is hard for me though to really just flat out hate one or two referees (yeah, even O'Hallaran ), I think it's just more that the interpretation of the rules is way, way too subjective. I know it is impossible for many rules calls to be just black and white and you're done with no grey area, but it needs to have as little grey area as possible.

Again, I don't dislike any referee. I was personally an official at a much, much lower level than professional, just collegiate intramural leagues in basketball and soccer. The people playing were competent and decent enough to where the pace and flow of the games were still competitive and fairly fast. I made my fair share of good calls, bad calls, no-calls, etc. just like NHL officials. It's a tough gig at any level when you know YOU CAN'T WIN and you'll always be pissing some players or fans off in the course of the game.

What needs to be done is to have officials get in as close too 100% agreement on rules/penalties.

I agree that the interpretation creates too much subjectivity, my problem is when an individual ref doesn't seem to be consistend with his interpretation. I understand two different refs my interpret the rules differently but the same ref shouldn't interpret them differently at different times, for different players, or for different teams.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'm with Hank and BlueMonk 110%.

Were the refs "rooting" for the Pens or told by the league to make sure Sidney Crosby got to hoist the Cup? No. I don't buy conspiracy theories.

But the penalty calls this series were unbelievably inconsistent, in both teams' favor at different times.

They'd let so much go and then call some chintzy hook that by the book was the right call, but you couldn't believe they'd call that after letting everything else slide. The Wings got a power play that way in the second overtime Monday. The Pens certainly benefited from this too. Somebody literally grabbed Zetterberg around the shoulders on Monday and yanked him backwards - no call, except for a phantom offsides.

The way they were calling goalie interference, a goalie could come out of his crease with the sole purpose of getting run over and drawing a call. Forget the puck - the goal will be waved off anyway.

No need to re-hash the complete injustices done to Holmstrom both against Dallas and Pitt.

I wouldn't mind if they consistently let stuff slide, or if they consistently called a tight game. Either one is fine, though I do prefer a tightly-called game that lets skaters skate. But for the love of Christ don't let Lilja or Orpik bowl somebody over when the puck is 20 yards away and then call Datsyuk for a hook when his stick was up for one second.

What really pissed me off but good was the 6-on-4 that the Pens scored on, and about 5 seconds before the goal, Malone slashed Lilja's stick out of his hands. Blatant. Worse than the crap they called Hudler for earlier in the game. And it led straight to a possibly series-changing goal.

My solution remains the same: Make it 100% illegal to use the blade of your stick on an opponent or his stick above the knees. As soon as you touch the other guy with the blade, 2 minutes. 4 if blood is drawn. There's no reason the stick should be used as a defensive tool on anything other than the puck. Lifting another players stick OK....you don't ever need to do that above the knees anyway. If called with consistency, it would probably result in a record number of power plays for a season but long-term, MUCH freer ice to skate on, and fewer accidents where someone takes a stick to the eye because they were being hooked and the defender "slipped". It would take all the ambiguity out of "should that have been a hook or not?"

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I don't buy into the conspiracy against the Red Wings but the officiating was awful this series.

Pittsburgh got two 5 on 3s and I don't think Detroit got any.

Hudler barely had his stick up on the hooking call.

NBC didn't even show the Datsyuk penalty (Wonder why?).

Datsyuk was hooked at the blue line for a turnover just prior to the game ending and it was not called.

This thread is just further proof that fans, ALL FANS, see only that which they choose to see.

Go to the Pens forum and all you will see is thread after thread complaining about the officiating.

Come here and all you see are Wings fans complaining about how the officiating is hosing us.

We never remember the s*** our players get away with.

We always remember the non calls we think we should've gotten.

That will never change. The point is, the officiating might be terrible, but it favors nobody. If you watch any of the games from a Pitt perspective, our guys got away with a ton of s***. I wouldn't say we were the most obstructive team ever but we sure as hell made a strong effort at it.

We got away with a lot and so did the Pens. Officiating favors no team. That's what you think when you have your homer goggles on. Officating sucks, plain and simple.

[deker 0]

All I will say is that when the NHL announced the list of officials for the Stanley Cup Finals and Bill McCreary wasn't on it, I couldn't help but suspect something strange was happening.

[Dabura 12,232]

It was brutal in this series, and whether people want to admit it or not, it typically favored the Penguins. That's not a conspiracy theory; it's a fact. What this means in terms of "hidden agendas" and what not is up for debate -- but the notion that the officiating was lopsided and generally terrible is not. That many Pens fans feel screwed over doesn't change anything, as the proof is in the proverbial pudding.

[AUWingsFan 0]

If you want to see the absolute most bulls*** call (non-call) in this whole playoffs go to 1:36 remaining in the 3rd of game 6, when the pens score their last goal. Someone bats the stick out of lilja's hand (should be a slash there?), but then sykora shoots the stick away from lilja with his stick (a penalty thats usually called EVERY time). Its obvious and blatant. Complete s*** that it wasn't called, then the pens scored because of it.

I will not be watching the NHL next year if this bulls*** continues, only reason why I watched hockey at all this year is because of the wings.

I was really angry that there was no call on that play, the guy knocking the stick out of Lilja's hands should have been called and the play resulted in a goal. If the Pens had tied the game you can bet there would have been more than a few angry Wings fans!

Oh well, I think it only goes to show how great this team is that they were able to win the Cup despite some questionable officiating!

Go Wings!

[Icteria virens 11]

The officiating was a disgrace. Nice try, but the Wings are too good to be stopped by s***ty, biased officiating. It was the Men vs the Pens!

but what happens next year if we're in the same situation and the team we play is better? the biased officiating could be the difference between cup and no cup.

this series should've been 5 games at most.

[dicksmack 33]

but what happens next year if we're in the same situation and the team we play is better? the biased officiating could be the difference between cup and no cup.

this series should've been 5 games at most.

Wings can overcome bad officiating again if they have to! These guys amazing!

BTW, some people can't tell the difference between a conspiracy (so-called) and bias. Labelling something a "Conspiracy" is obviously a lame attempt to discredit a point of view with a loaded term. "Bias" requires no secret meetings. For example, a workplace could be dicriminatory (i.e. biased) against a certain group of people with no organized, officially sanctioned, secretly planned and systematic plan of doing so. I believe my own eyes... The bias could even be unconscious. There's big money at stake in extending a series and you have Canadian refs apparently favoring a team with more Canadians and (Sidney Crosby) and way less Euros. You know refs are passionate about hockey, since they made it their career. These passions, as we've seen, can get in the way of their ostensible objectivity.

Edited June 5, 2008 by dicksmack

[Lookout14 0]

I was really angry that there was no call on that play, the guy knocking the stick out of Lilja's hands should have been called and the play resulted in a goal. If the Pens had tied the game you can bet there would have been more than a few angry Wings fans!

Oh well, I think it only goes to show how great this team is that they were able to win the Cup despite some questionable officiating!

Go Wings!

There was NOWAY they were gonna call that.....if they had it would have defeated the purpose of them giving the Pens the advantage on that PP to try and tie it up.....they looked the other way on purpose IMO.....and no I don't think it's a consipiracy against the Wings.....it wouldn't have mattered who the Pens were playing....unfair, outrageous calls at the last minute of the game were gonna be called in fav of Pitts no matter who the opponet was!

[Wingsor 2]

but what happens next year if we're in the same situation and the team we play is better? the biased officiating could be the difference between cup and no cup.

this series should've been 5 games at most.

two late BS calls against anaheim cost us two games. those two games would have sent us to the finals last year too, and instead sent bettmans choice.

you have to love how bettman said congratulations to detroit (in a normal tone) AND TO PITTSBURGH WHO WERE AMAZING (in a more excited voice). he wanted them to win so bad.....

NBC even said (and they arent big wing nuts) three times during game 5....THESE CALLS ARE REDICULOUS AGAINST DETROIT, THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED DURING THE OFFSEASON. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS.

PS... TSN......one thing in your face that i still have on vid. Colorado in 5 huh? Monkeys.

GOOOOOOOOOOO WINGS

and go away refs...especially Dan O'Hell or win.

[Icteria virens 11]

two late BS calls against anaheim cost us two games. those two games would have sent us to the finals last year too, and instead sent bettmans choice.

you have to love how bettman said congratulations to detroit (in a normal tone) AND TO PITTSBURGH WHO WERE AMAZING (in a more excited voice). he wanted them to win so bad.....

NBC even said (and they arent big wing nuts) three times during game 5....THESE CALLS ARE REDICULOUS AGAINST DETROIT, THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED DURING THE OFFSEASON. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS.

PS... TSN......one thing in your face that i still have on vid. Colorado in 5 huh? Monkeys.

GOOOOOOOOOOO WINGS

and go away refs...especially Dan O'Hell or win.

last years WCF's was the same thing, they let the clutch and grab back into the series, the likes of which we hadn't seen since the lockout, all for the benefit of Ana.

It's all become about trying to grow a fanbase in a non-traditional market and the resulting

marketing of merchandise.

[Bad Vlad Forever 1]

i think if you look hard enough, you can find a penalty every time a team marches down the ice. old nhl, this wasn't a problem as much. slashing, tripping, hitting we're more accepted and you had to be pretty blatant to get a call against you. nowadays, things like that hudler tug at the end get called...but only sometimes. it's much more open to intrepretation.

for the most part, i feel that the series was evenly called (sans the 5-3 opportunites). and if the wings had their act together a little better on the PP, we'd have buried the pens in 4.

i want the old nhl back! i'm tired of hearing "2 minutes for playing hockey" calls.

[Bad Vlad Forever 1]

also, an observation:

i've never seen so many players tossed out of the faceoff circle as the wings this whole playoff

additionally, i've never seen a team in the playoffs get called for more offsides than the pens

weird

[Cruiser008 37]

Never mind Detroit's first 18 games in these playoffs. The officiating in Games 5 and 6 of the SCF were ATROCIOUS. Two bulls*** 5-on-3s, two bulls*** goalie interference penalties and a call on Detroit for merely HITTING. Osgood called out the refs in the McCarty interview, and he's 100% CORRECT. This was the NHL's time on the limelight and the league REALLY wanted it's star-studded showcase to last just little longer. And honestly, why not? It wasn't like they were blatant enough in their bias that any neutral fan could see it, although it sure was pretty close.

[Wingsor 2]

last years WCF's was the same thing, they let the clutch and grab back into the series, the likes of which we hadn't seen since the lockout, all for the benefit of Ana.

It's all become about trying to grow a fanbase in a non-traditional market and the resulting

marketing of merchandise.

lol wonder how that worked out on paper. i travel all around north america, i rarely ever see ducks hats or jerseys or merch, or any of the expansion teams that have won lately around.

maybe its really important to sell merchandise to the 1800 people who were in the anaheim parade when they won. Maybe they thought they'd make alot of sales to the TINY audience they get when a team without a fanbase makes the finals on TV.

they must be pissed now that a team like the wings who sells a ton anyhow, will now sell even more.....and they cant try to strip away our TRADEMARKED hockeytown name, and they must hate that THE RATINGS WERE THROUGH THE ROOF like 2002.......and who was there in 2002? thats right the wings. (and it would be high if any of the original 6 or other big market teams were in there)

BUT WAIT, the awesome new NHL will take all the money we make above our cap, and kindly insert it into the coppers of the league and to keep empty arenas in florida and elsewhere running...and not allow us to have all the great players who want to wear red play here (ooo cause we shouldn't be allowed to afford them...we're so evil we buy players, like noone else ever pays for players ~sarc~....-who were often taking cuts in their own pays to bring in more friends - see shanahan, hull, yzerman, robitaille, hasek dealings)

new NHL rules and CBA sucks

BUT WE WIN ANYWAYS WITH CLASS, GUYS AND CHARACTER DESPITE GARY AND HIS REFS!

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO WINGS!

Edited June 5, 2008 by Wingsor

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

It was brutal in this series, and whether people want to admit it or not, it typically favored the Penguins. That's not a conspiracy theory; it's a fact. What this means in terms of "hidden agendas" and what not is up for debate -- but the notion that the officiating was lopsided and generally terrible is not. That many Pens fans feel screwed over doesn't change anything, as the proof is in the proverbial pudding.

The part about the officiating being terrible I can agree with, the lopsided-ness, not so much.

Draper could've been called for about 6 holding penalties every game. Watch the tapes objectively, Drapes interfered so many times with other players I was actually feeling a little guilty about it myself as I was thinking some of the Pens fans have a good point.

But then you can look at non calls we didn't get, at least 2 by Roberts in game 3 I think. And Malone not getting called for whacking away Lilja's stick.

The officiating was bad. If one team had more PP's overall than the other I guess you could say it was lopsided in a literal sense. But we got away with a ton of s*** so I don't think we should be crying about how the officiating favored the Pens.

[Wingsor 2]

The part about the officiating being terrible I can agree with, the lopsided-ness, not so much.

Draper could've been called for about 6 holding penalties every game. Watch the tapes objectively, Drapes interfered so many times with other players I was actually feeling a little guilty about it myself as I was thinking some of the Pens fans have a good point.

But then you can look at non calls we didn't get, at least 2 by Roberts in game 3 I think. And Malone not getting called for whacking away Lilja's stick.

The officiating was bad. If one team had more PP's overall than the other I guess you could say it was lopsided in a literal sense. But we got away with a ton of s*** so I don't think we should be crying about how the officiating favored the Pens.

the biggest concern to me is that they CALL PENALITIES WHEN THEY WANT, not just when an infraction happens. There is no rhyme nor reason to their frequency or consistency.

they seem to ALWAYS call the wings when the wings are gaining momentum, and they're 10-1 giving other teams 5 on 3's and rarely ones for us, and they are so quick to make an even up call against us while we're on the PP, or shortly after we score they give the other team a PP. What happenens to us usually? we kill one off and they call another. and we sure as hell are not more dirty than the other teams.

These calls especially in the playoffs are always timed perfectly to stop our momentum, or change the play before the intermission, or let the other team tie up the game before it ends with a wings win (especially in the playoffs)...its rediculous. sometimes we do things yes, but they are usually very minor, and they were letting everything like that go the rest of the game...but now choose to screw us by calling it NOW of all times. And typically other teams get away with the same thing, and THEYRE DOING IT AS MUCH OR MORE... its an agenda. and we arent perfect, but they dont call a million different things against many of our opponenets that are so blantantly obvious.... ~see maltby screming at the end of the 5 on 3 we killed in game 4....the guy yanking his stick and not letting go as the ref 3 fee away watched. malts screams "HES GRABBING MY STICK, FU##, COME ON!!!! .....FU##" ref did nothing. wheres our even up after killing a BS 5 on 3...(which included a phantom call on the second penalty) Unfortunately this is typical. see the drake call, the lilja stick removal, the datsyuk tripping and more at the end of the clincher.

I'm happy we won, but it was despite the other teams efforts and their extra attacker in black and white.

AS NBC even said 3 times in one game... the calls against detroit are rediculous and need to be adressed during the offseason

GOOOOOOOO WINGS!

PS we should have bill mccreary as solo ref for all our games heheh

Edited June 5, 2008 by Wingsor

[Nev 1,085]

What pissed me off the most was the way they went "let them play" and then called the BS penalties like the one on Hudler. If you're going to swallow your whistle then fine, as long as the players all know that, and as long as you still call the totally blatant stuff that prevents (or in the case of the Datsyuk trip with 10s left) creates a goal scoring chance.

Calling a BS hook with 2 minutes left to give a team with 1 shot in 18 minutes a last chance PP after you have let EVERYTHING in that time.....infuriating. Even worse when just about the ONLY way the Pens got any goals (or chances for that matter) was on the PP.

[Wingsor 2]

What pissed me off the most was the way they went "let them play" and then called the BS penalties like the one on Hudler. If you're going to swallow your whistle then fine, as long as the players all know that, and as long as you still call the totally blatant stuff that prevents (or in the case of the Datsyuk trip with 10s left) creates a goal scoring chance.

Calling a BS hook with 2 minutes left to give a team with 1 shot in 18 minutes a last chance PP after you have let EVERYTHING in that time.....infuriating. Even worse when just about the ONLY way the Pens got any goals (or chances for that matter) was on the PP.

EXXXXXXXXXXACTLY!

cheers mate!

WINGS IN THE UK HOUSE!

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

OK I'm watching the replay of last night's game and it still infuriates me - yes even though we won.

Sorry but it was so predictable they would call a PP for the Pens with under 2 mins left - that was the lamest hooking call I've ever seen. And then they totally ignore the trip on Datsyuk thereafter. I don't usually subscribe to conspiracies, but that penalty on Hudler just isn't a call in a Cup clinching game.

On the flip side - kudos to the ref who didn't blow the whistle on Hank's goal. Great read by him. I suppose it goes both ways but I cannot help but feel that every time the Pens were in trouble - they got a PP.

Anyhow great that the Wings battled through all that - we were the better team.

[Lookout14 0]

Everytime I see that replay of the last seconds of the game I feel sick/mad.....it is so obvious that the ref's were doing there best to give the Pens the ability to tie it up AGAIN....that puck crossing over Ozzies glove and sideways along the line is quite scary STILL!

They better look into this nonsense.....and fix it!

Next yr will be worse if it's not addressed and brought out to light IMO.....if you think it was tough these last 2 games wait until next yr!

Sure I am glad we won....that's an understatement but I am still mad as he$$ about the ending of that game!!

[therock48880 14]

These calls especially in the playoffs are always timed perfectly to stop our momentum, or change the play before the intermission

This is EXACTLY how I felt about it. It seemed that calls (or non-calls) at crucial moments of games all favored the Pens.

I keep going back to the Philly series because I can't stand the Flyers and I felt they got ROYALLY screwed by the refs. I was getting mad because a team I despise was getting screwed by the refs. It's gotta be bad for a hockey fan to feel bad for a team you don't like. Over the years I've defended refs over and over again, but after this year's playoffs, I can't do it anymore.

BTW, what did Osgood say about the refs? I haven't heard or read anything about it.

[eva unit zero 271]

Call it however you want but I know for a fact half of the officials in the league would've blown the whistle on Z's game winner, whover that zebra was, he was in great position to make that call and thank god it went our way!!

Marc Joanette. I personally rank him as the second best ref in the league. He does an excellent job and typically calls a very fair game, and is consistent from game to game with his calls.