The Pens next year

[Echolalia 2,961]

The Pens have quite a few decisions to make this year, what with the plethora of free agents they have.

UFAs: Gary Roberts, Ryan Malone, Marian Hossa, Geroges Laroque, Jarkko Ruutu, Adam Hall, Kris Beech, Jeff Taffe, Pascal Dupuis, Nathan Smith, James Connor, Mark Eaton, Brooks Orpik, Alain Nasreddine, Ryan Lannon, and Ty Conkin.

RFAs: Ryan Stone, Jonathon Filewich, Tim Brent, and Marc-Andre Fleury.

Interesting Note: Only four players in their current lineup have contracts signed past the 09-10 season (Crosby, Gonchar, Whitney, and Letang), which means while the Pens give out contract extensions for this year, they need to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Stall, Sykora, Talbot, etc etc will be waiting next year, with a couple of them deserving hefty raises.

So with this huge mess in the Pens' office, how well do you think they will respond? Who is staying, who is going? And in the end, are they going to still be the same cup contending team that they are now?

[rick zombo 3,739]

The funny thing is everyone says that the pens are the "team of the future" yet the Wings team is financially structured in a way that their future success, at least for the next 2 or 3 years, may be even more guaranteed then the Pens.

[MacK_Attack 108]

Hossa said today that he's willing to take less money to stay in Pittsburgh.

[BlueMonk 102]

Hossa is an absolute must for the Pens if they want to be a contender for the Cup again next year, IMO.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

Hossa and Orpik will stay...Malone will go

Malone is a career 15-20 goal guy that some team will pay 5 mill/year for...for some reason

Take him off Malkins line...and hes 20 goals...tops...

dont get me wrong...I love Bugsy...but some team will way overpay for him

[arnoldbuck 0]

If they can't afford everyone, I'll take Stall.

[ThreeRiversFan 0]

The Pens have quite a few decisions to make this year, what with the plethora of free agents they have.

UFAs: Gary Roberts, Ryan Malone, Marian Hossa, Geroges Laroque, Jarkko Ruutu, Adam Hall, Kris Beech, Jeff Taffe, Pascal Dupuis, Nathan Smith, James Connor, Mark Eaton, Brooks Orpik, Alain Nasreddine, Ryan Lannon, and Ty Conkin.

RFAs: Ryan Stone, Jonathon Filewich, Tim Brent, and Marc-Andre Fleury.

Interesting Note: Only four players in their current lineup have contracts signed past the 09-10 season (Crosby, Gonchar, Whitney, and Letang), which means while the Pens give out contract extensions for this year, they need to keep in mind that players like Malkin, Stall, Sykora, Talbot, etc etc will be waiting next year, with a couple of them deserving hefty raises.

So with this huge mess in the Pens' office, how well do you think they will respond? Who is staying, who is going? And in the end, are they going to still be the same cup contending team that they are now?

This list always looks so daunting...but it really comes down to Hossa, Orpik, and Malone....

Fleury is RFA..he goes nowhere....

everyone else is either AHL, or resignable at or near their current salaries

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

Even if they somehow find a way to bring back Hossa, Orpik, and the other big names, They're going to have to lose a lot of depth, and won't have the cap room to have much of anything on their fourth line. By signing their big name guys this summer, they almost guarantee that they won't be able to bring back Malkin or Staal.

Re-signing Hossa will absolutely kill they're cap, and assuming Malkin has another big year in 08-09, he's going to be looking for 10 mil. Point is, as great as it would be for them to keep everyone, they can't.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Dump Malone and Orpik, they're replacable. Resign Hossa. In a few years, they'll probably have to trade Staal or Malkin, but that decision probably won't have to be made for another year.

[ben_usmc 253]

I'm calling the Caps to do what the Pens did this year

[Anomalously 0]

Fleury gets $5M for taking them to the Finals. Hossa's paycut is $6.5M, minimum. Malkin asks for $10M, gets $9M. Staal gets $5M. Orpik gets $4-4.5M. Malone gets $5M.

$34.5M for guys unsigned.

Guys who will be signed through the first year of Malkin's contract:

Crosby $8.7.

Gonchar $5.

Whitney $4.

$17.7.

Right there. $52.2.

Take out Malone, and it's 47.2. Estimated cap $58. Backup goaltender ~$.8, and we'll call it $10M for eight forwards and three defensemen. $900,000 per.

Right now the guys not named Crosby, Gonchar, Whitney, Fleury, Hossa, Malkin, Staal, Orpik make around $23 million (about $2M per).

Edited June 7, 2008 by Anomalously

[10 Minute Misconduct 104]

If they keep Hossa they won't be able to keep Malkin. Orpik and Malone are also as good as gone. Orpik doesn't like playing for Therrien.

The Pens won't be as good on paper next year as they were this year.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Hossa said today that he's willing to take less money to stay in Pittsburgh.

Damn it. Hossa was their most dangerous forward out there at times. That in itself makes this bad news for us.

[FedorovGurl 2]

I say keep the players and lose the coach!!

[redwing_sparty 0]

they have next year basically to take one more shot at the cup. there are too many good up and coming players on that team that other teams will be willing to offer a lot of money for. they will probley resign hossa, but honestly if malkin hadn't disappeared in the playoffs they wouldnt have needed hossa. the wings are much better structured to survive in this cap era. it all comes down to how much the players want that chance to win and what they are willing to sacrafice to get it. I see guys like fleury and malkin selling out. there are plenty of western confernce teams that would love to pick up a goalie like fleury so that they can compete with all the great goalies in the west. and malkin could easily net a huge salary elsewhere. crosby will have to be able to convince these guys that there is something worth sticking around for. honestly i think this team will be nearly completly broken up over the next two seasons.

[eva unit zero 271]

Fleury gets $5M for taking them to the Finals

Fleury is one of the league's five best goaltenders right now, and he's young. If they can lock him up for 6-7 years at $5m, that's a great deal.

Hossa's paycut is $6.5M, minimum

Hossa at $6.5m is a bargain. If the Pens get that offer from him, and decline...that's a dumb move.

Malkin asks for $10M, gets $9M

I can see this happening, but it's overpayment. Malkin has to prove himself more before he can justify that kind of coin. His season as runner-up for the Hart was not as impressive as Crosby's Hart-winning season, and Malkin isn't the golden boy; so he gets less leeway in demanding money. Not saying he won't ask for $10m, just that he isn't worth $9m. Crosby's cap hit is $8.7m...I would expect to see Malkin closer to $8m or $8.5m, unless he's traded.

Staal gets $5M

Staal is a guy who has scored 20 goals once, and is a decent checking center. He has done nothing else to this point; in other words, he's a center version of Mikael Samuelsson in terms of accomplishments and defensive ability. Samuelsson makes $1.2m...so being generous we'll say Staal gets $2m.

Orpik gets $4-4.5M

Orpik is a #3 stay at home defenseman. Why does he get paid like an All-Star? He's average at best...worth no more than $2.25m. He sure as hell isn't better than Brad Stuart, who most on this forum are saying isn't worth $4m.

Malone gets $5M.

Malone has similar numbers to Dan Cleary offensively. Cleary is far, far better defensively. Both can play all three forward positions. Cleary got $2.8m per year, and was supposedly worth between $3m and $3.5m on the open market. Malone gets $2.5m or he's overpaid.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Eva you're right about Orpik but in this league average D-man get paid outrageous amounts

[RainingBlood 8]

This list always looks so daunting...but it really comes down to Hossa, Orpik, and Malone....

Fleury is RFA..he goes nowhere....

everyone else is either AHL, or resignable at or near their current salaries

Im sure anaheim fans were saying that about dustin penner. You think if some teams offers 7 or 8 mill a year for Fleury the pens can afford it, knowing Malkins contract comes up after next season.

[josh 0]

Even if they somehow find a way to bring back Hossa, Orpik, and the other big names, They're going to have to lose a lot of depth, and won't have the cap room to have much of anything on their fourth line. By signing their big name guys this summer, they almost guarantee that they won't be able to bring back Malkin or Staal.

Re-signing Hossa will absolutely kill they're cap, and assuming Malkin has another big year in 08-09, he's going to be looking for 10 mil. Point is, as great as it would be for them to keep everyone, they can't.

yea i dont think they would be as if not as good as this season

[HenryMalredo 2]

Fleury is one of the league's five best goaltenders right now, and he's young. If they can lock him up for 6-7 years at $5m, that's a great deal.

Hossa at $6.5m is a bargain. If the Pens get that offer from him, and decline...that's a dumb move.

I can see this happening, but it's overpayment. Malkin has to prove himself more before he can justify that kind of coin. His season as runner-up for the Hart was not as impressive as Crosby's Hart-winning season, and Malkin isn't the golden boy; so he gets less leeway in demanding money. Not saying he won't ask for $10m, just that he isn't worth $9m. Crosby's cap hit is $8.7m...I would expect to see Malkin closer to $8m or $8.5m, unless he's traded.

Staal is a guy who has scored 20 goals once, and is a decent checking center. He has done nothing else to this point; in other words, he's a center version of Mikael Samuelsson in terms of accomplishments and defensive ability. Samuelsson makes $1.2m...so being generous we'll say Staal gets $2m.

Orpik is a #3 stay at home defenseman. Why does he get paid like an All-Star? He's average at best...worth no more than $2.25m. He sure as hell isn't better than Brad Stuart, who most on this forum are saying isn't worth $4m.

Malone has similar numbers to Dan Cleary offensively. Cleary is far, far better defensively. Both can play all three forward positions. Cleary got $2.8m per year, and was supposedly worth between $3m and $3.5m on the open market. Malone gets $2.5m or he's overpaid.

Eva, you give NHL GMs too much credit. All those players will be drastically overpaid, especially Orpik and Malone.

[norrisnick 1]

Staal is a guy who has scored 20 goals once, and is a decent checking center. He has done nothing else to this point; in other words, he's a center version of Mikael Samuelsson in terms of accomplishments and defensive ability. Samuelsson makes $1.2m...so being generous we'll say Staal gets $2m.

Staal is 19 and likely made more than $2M the last couple seasons. There is no way he'll sign for $2M. Shorter than 3 years he likely gets at least $3M/yr. Getting in the 5 year range he'd be stupid to sign anything lower than 5M/yr.

Filppula will be getting at least $2M/yr and Staal is better with MUCH more potential. Staal projects to be something similar to Holik or Primeau and they both made ridiculous money. Massive defensively sound 2nd line centers will always get paid.

And he's 19!

[Glubki 17]

Im sure anaheim fans were saying that about dustin penner. You think if some teams offers 7 or 8 mill a year for Fleury the pens can afford it, knowing Malkins contract comes up after next season.

Yeah, and if the Leafs don't re-sign Sundin they and a couple of other teams will have plenty of cap space to make an offer or two...

[eva unit zero 271]

Staal is 19 and likely made more than $2M the last couple seasons. There is no way he'll sign for $2M. Shorter than 3 years he likely gets at least $3M/yr. Getting in the 5 year range he'd be stupid to sign anything lower than 5M/yr.

Filppula will be getting at least $2M/yr and Staal is better with MUCH more potential. Staal projects to be something similar to Holik or Primeau and they both made ridiculous money. Massive defensively sound 2nd line centers will always get paid.

And he's 19!

Primeau and Holik were massively overpaid. Staal might be too. I am not saying he won't get a decent paycheck...I am simply saying he won't deserve what he gets. And honestly, I don't see the Pens signing Staal for more than 3-4 years on his next deal; that would allow them to commit to a lower number, while still retaining him as an RFA when it's over. I just checked the numbers, and Staal made 2.2 average over his contract because of his huge first season...but then he scored 12 this year. Had it been 12 his first year and 29 this year, I would be shocked to see him get less than $3m for a 3-4 year deal. But instead, it makes you question his consistency and why he would have a production drop of almost 60% when he was in the same role. Anson Carter was a 25-30 goal scorer, or a 5-10 goal scorer. He was never worth anywhere close to $5m, and that was even when people thought he would consistently score he never earned better than $3m.

Plus...Staal is a third line center right now. Primeau and Holik both got paid, yes, but both were FIRST line centers for much of their large deals. Staal is unlikely to be in that position in the next few years...he certainly won't be there as a Penguin.

And FTR...Filppula at $2m+ is overpayment, unless it's for 5+ seasons.

Finally...Staal being 19 increases his trade value, but not his contract value. If an identical player were 23, would he make less money? The only time you sign a guy for different money is for his age, and that's because chances are, he'll get worse. With youth, though, getting better is hit or miss. Staal's second season was significantly worse than his first, so that will reduce or even nullify any thought to give him more in the short term because of his potential.

Staal could just as easily have had his best season in his first season, and be a 15 goal, 35 point checking center for the rest of his career. At this point, he doesn't command a contract worth that much, nor will he get the kind of length that might justify the increase. He'll likely see a MAXIMUM of $3m, for 3-4 years. $5m if he proves himself deserving in the next 2 1/2 seasons.

[norrisnick 1]

Primeau and Holik were massively overpaid. Staal might be too. I am not saying he won't get a decent paycheck...I am simply saying he won't deserve what he gets. And honestly, I don't see the Pens signing Staal for more than 3-4 years on his next deal; that would allow them to commit to a lower number, while still retaining him as an RFA when it's over. I just checked the numbers, and Staal made 2.2 average over his contract because of his huge first season...but then he scored 12 this year. Had it been 12 his first year and 29 this year, I would be shocked to see him get less than $3m for a 3-4 year deal. But instead, it makes you question his consistency and why he would have a production drop of almost 60% when he was in the same role. Anson Carter was a 25-30 goal scorer, or a 5-10 goal scorer. He was never worth anywhere close to $5m, and that was even when people thought he would consistently score he never earned better than $3m.

Plus...Staal is a third line center right now. Primeau and Holik both got paid, yes, but both were FIRST line centers for much of their large deals. Staal is unlikely to be in that position in the next few years...he certainly won't be there as a Penguin.

And FTR...Filppula at $2m+ is overpayment, unless it's for 5+ seasons.

Finally...Staal being 19 increases his trade value, but not his contract value. If an identical player were 23, would he make less money? The only time you sign a guy for different money is for his age, and that's because chances are, he'll get worse. With youth, though, getting better is hit or miss. Staal's second season was significantly worse than his first, so that will reduce or even nullify any thought to give him more in the short term because of his potential.

Staal could just as easily have had his best season in his first season, and be a 15 goal, 35 point checking center for the rest of his career. At this point, he doesn't command a contract worth that much, nor will he get the kind of length that might justify the increase. He'll likely see a MAXIMUM of $3m, for 3-4 years. $5m if he proves himself deserving in the next 2 1/2 seasons.

Makes you question his consistency? He was a 19 year-old suffering a sophomore slump. Not to mention he was a winger last season and this season, at 19, they asked him to be their checking line center. As he grows into that role, he's only going to get more productive.

From Samuelsson to Anson Carter... can you get any more ridiculous with your comparisons? I'm shocked you haven't mentioned Chris Gratton to be quite honest.

There is no way Staal signs a 3+ year deal for less than $4-5M/yr. They've got another year to wait and see and negotiate, but it could bite them in the ass if he explodes at 20 like his brother did.

[PaVel DaTsYuK fan13 0]

Primeau and Holik were massively overpaid. Staal might be too. I am not saying he won't get a decent paycheck...I am simply saying he won't deserve what he gets. And honestly, I don't see the Pens signing Staal for more than 3-4 years on his next deal; that would allow them to commit to a lower number, while still retaining him as an RFA when it's over. I just checked the numbers, and Staal made 2.2 average over his contract because of his huge first season...but then he scored 12 this year. Had it been 12 his first year and 29 this year, I would be shocked to see him get less than $3m for a 3-4 year deal. But instead, it makes you question his consistency and why he would have a production drop of almost 60% when he was in the same role. Anson Carter was a 25-30 goal scorer, or a 5-10 goal scorer. He was never worth anywhere close to $5m, and that was even when people thought he would consistently score he never earned better than $3m.

Plus...Staal is a third line center right now. Primeau and Holik both got paid, yes, but both were FIRST line centers for much of their large deals. Staal is unlikely to be in that position in the next few years...he certainly won't be there as a Penguin.

And FTR...Filppula at $2m+ is overpayment, unless it's for 5+ seasons.

Finally...Staal being 19 increases his trade value, but not his contract value. If an identical player were 23, would he make less money? The only time you sign a guy for different money is for his age, and that's because chances are, he'll get worse. With youth, though, getting better is hit or miss. Staal's second season was significantly worse than his first, so that will reduce or even nullify any thought to give him more in the short term because of his potential.

Staal could just as easily have had his best season in his first season, and be a 15 goal, 35 point checking center for the rest of his career. At this point, he doesn't command a contract worth that much, nor will he get the kind of length that might justify the increase. He'll likely see a MAXIMUM of $3m, for 3-4 years. $5m if he proves himself deserving in the next 2 1/2 seasons.

In a perfect world Staal is probably only worth 2.5-3 mil for 3 years, but in the National Hockey League GMs overpay for players, it's as factual as saying that the sun will rise tomorrow. Although untested, Staal has overwhelming potential, and given where he was drafted alone, is looking for close to 5 mil. Considering the fact that Staal isn't even a legal adult, he could very hit his breakout season in the next few years and it will be much better than this years campaign. Coincidentally, this breakout could very well occur in a contract year, and all the sudden the Penguins are going to have to Pony up the big bucks. signing Staal to 4 years at about 4 million would be somewhat unlikely, but a great value for the Pens.