Bouwmeester Wants out of Florida?

[Superman54 91]

Id probably s*** my pants of we landed him, but thats probably very very unlikely.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Has anyone given any thought to how Bouwmeester would fit into the cap, long-term? Figure $8M for Hank, $6.7M for Pavel, $6M for Rafalski, $7.45 for Nick, and $8.3 for Cleary/Homer/Kronwall, and that's $36.45M for those guys - Bouwmeester would push it over $40 million. (Figures for the '09-'10 season.) That'd leave less than a million per year for the rest of the team, not forgetting of course that Flip and Franzen are set to join the 2-to-3 million club. Sure, the cap likely will rise, but no way you can project accurately enough how much - not when dealing with the figures Bouwmeester will command.

Frankly it'd be irresponsible of Kenny to sign Bouwmeester. He's a hell of a player but the cap prevents it from being anything more than a dream right now.

[egroen 384]

Has anyone given any thought to how Bouwmeester would fit into the cap, long-term? Figure $8M for Hank, $6.7M for Pavel, $6M for Rafalski, $7.45 for Nick, and $8.3 for Cleary/Homer/Kronwall, and that's $36.45M for those guys - Bouwmeester would push it over $40 million. (Figures for the '09-'10 season.) That'd leave less than a million per year for the rest of the team, not forgetting of course that Flip and Franzen are set to join the 2-to-3 million club. Sure, the cap likely will rise, but no way you can project accurately enough how much - not when dealing with the figures Bouwmeester will command.

Frankly it'd be irresponsible of Kenny to sign Bouwmeester. He's a hell of a player but the cap prevents it from being anything more than a dream right now.

You could trade for him this year -- putting a Filppula/Franzen/Cleary in the trade makes it very doable. It also assumes you are not resigning Stuart. Especially since numerous posters here claim Hossa would fit in under the '10 cap without losing anyone.

Edited June 26, 2008 by egroen

[Guest Dump-N-Thump]

One of the best not talked about D-Men out there..

God i would love for Detroit to have him.. He's such a good d-man but is stuck in florida and will never get talked about.. until he puts up world class numbers or gets moved to a winning organization.

[betterREDthandead 58]

You could trade for him this year -- putting a Filppula/Franzen/Cleary in the trade makes it very doable. It also assumes you are not resigning Stuart. Especially since numerous posters here claim Hossa would fit in under the '10 cap without losing anyone.

Well, I think that's kind of a crazy claim too.

And I'm not really big on the idea of trading from a weakness to shore up a strength. Let's make sure that our younger offensive players develop like we think they should before we go trading one or two of them for a defenseman.

[T.Low 1,011]

What he said.

There'll be a lot of teams willing to throw a grosse amount of money at this kid.

Defenseman take longer to develop than forwards and I think Bowemeester could end up being a Norris candidate before his days are done.

The thing about him is, he could be so much better offensively if he played in a system where they let him take some chances.

If he were a Wing, I'm sure he'd double his point production in a year or two.

But someone will give him a deal for around $5M/year or more. Think 5 years, $27M.

Especially since the Wings are Cup Champions, the new buzz around the league is "smart, puck moving defensemen".

[Glubki 17]

Has anyone given any thought to how Bouwmeester would fit into the cap, long-term? Figure $8M for Hank, $6.7M for Pavel, $6M for Rafalski, $7.45 for Nick, and $8.3 for Cleary/Homer/Kronwall, and that's $36.45M for those guys - Bouwmeester would push it over $40 million. (Figures for the '09-'10 season.) That'd leave less than a million per year for the rest of the team, not forgetting of course that Flip and Franzen are set to join the 2-to-3 million club. Sure, the cap likely will rise, but no way you can project accurately enough how much - not when dealing with the figures Bouwmeester will command.

Frankly it'd be irresponsible of Kenny to sign Bouwmeester. He's a hell of a player but the cap prevents it from being anything more than a dream right now.

Bouwmester @ 5M annually for 3-5 years until Nick retires would not break the bank... The Wings are/were already looking at 3-3.5M a year for Stuart so an extra 1.5M annually is not an impossibility. Barring an offer sheet - The cost of getting Bouwmeester is what would be the problem. The Wings pick so late that they would probably want 2 first rounders and Ericsson and I doubt if Detroit would part with that much when there are decent defensemen out there that you can get for 3-4 million without losing assets. He would definitely fill a greater short and long term need than a high priced forward.

[w00p33 2]

meh... I'm just not sold on how this team needs a first line defenseman to come here to be in the second grouping.

I do feel bad for Florida though, I watched a bunch of their games on Center Ice and they are exciting, but the only reason they were realistically in the playoff picture until as late as mid-March was Jokinen and Bouwmeester. With one gone and the othre looking, even with whatever they get back I don't see them threatening to a top AHL team even. That said, as far as we are concerned, I don't like the thought of a 3-man for one deal, even with someone as good as Bow as it has potential chemistry affecting implications in the locker room as well as whether Bow would want reduced ice-time he would receive by not being in the first pair. The only reason I would be truly in favor of making a deal for this guy is not to bolster the Wings so much as deny him to the rest of the league... heh...

[Dabura 12,232]

You could trade for him this year -- putting a Filppula/Franzen/Cleary in the trade makes it very doable. It also assumes you are not resigning Stuart. Especially since numerous posters here claim Hossa would fit in under the '10 cap without losing anyone.

If you want to continue that argument, bump the proper thread.

As for Jay -- he'd make our top-4 absurdly absurd. Which is why we won't get him.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Bouwmester @ 5M annually for 3-5 years until Nick retires would not break the bank... The Wings are/were already looking at 3-3.5M a year for Stuart so an extra 1.5M annually is not an impossibility. Barring an offer sheet - The cost of getting Bouwmeester is what would be the problem. The Wings pick so late that they would probably want 2 first rounders and Ericsson and I doubt if Detroit would part with that much when there are decent defensemen out there that you can get for 3-4 million without losing assets. He would definitely fill a greater short and long term need than a high priced forward.

Short term need? There are way too many defensemen and too few spots as it is. Short-term, the last thing we need is a d-man. Goalie and forward are much bigger priorities. Long term, I kind of grant you, once Nick retires, but I strongly disagree that it wouldn't break the bank. It would as long as Nick is around. The Wings aren't going to pay $3.5M for Stuart - $3M, tops. They probably would prefer to drop it down to $2.5. And $5M is a minimum for Bouwmeester, especially with a good season.

[Glubki 17]

Short term need? There are way too many defensemen and too few spots as it is. Short-term, the last thing we need is a d-man.

If the last thing Detroit needs is a #4 defenseman then why did they trade for one at the deadline and sit pat on forwards? Why did they make Stuart an opening offer for a contract slightly lower than 3.5m after the season was over? Holland also indicated in the papers three weeks ago that their #1 priority during the offseason is a #4 defenseman and that in all likelihood several of the remaining D-men may ending up being moved. I doubt if much has changed in three weeks...

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

I didn't even bother reading all of the previous posts in this thread.

Bouwmeester is a future norris-candidate. Florida is going to want much more than what we have to offer for him/

Edited June 27, 2008 by KronwallCRUNCH

[betterREDthandead 58]

If the last thing Detroit needs is a #4 defenseman then why did they trade for one at the deadline and sit pat on forwards? Why did they make Stuart an opening offer for a contract slightly lower than 3.5m after the season was over? Holland also indicated in the papers three weeks ago that their #1 priority during the offseason is a #4 defenseman and that in all likelihood several of the remaining D-men may ending up being moved. I doubt if much has changed in three weeks...

Bouwmeester isn't a #4, he's a #1. Holland wants a #4 defenseman at a #4 defenseman price. Bouwmeester simply isn't going to fit under the cap, not until Nick retires, which could be two years away, or it could be more.

[Glubki 17]

Bouwmeester isn't a #4, he's a #1. Holland wants a #4 defenseman at a #4 defenseman price. Bouwmeester simply isn't going to fit under the cap, not until Nick retires, which could be two years away, or it could be more.

I disagree with you from a salary standpoint but there is absolutely zero chance of Jay B. signing with the Wings because the cost of acquiring him would be too high so there is no sense debating it...

[VM1138 1,921]

meh... I'm just not sold on how this team needs a first line defenseman to come here to be in the second grouping.

I do feel bad for Florida though, I watched a bunch of their games on Center Ice and they are exciting, but the only reason they were realistically in the playoff picture until as late as mid-March was Jokinen and Bouwmeester. With one gone and the othre looking, even with whatever they get back I don't see them threatening to a top AHL team even. That said, as far as we are concerned, I don't like the thought of a 3-man for one deal, even with someone as good as Bow as it has potential chemistry affecting implications in the locker room as well as whether Bow would want reduced ice-time he would receive by not being in the first pair. The only reason I would be truly in favor of making a deal for this guy is not to bolster the Wings so much as deny him to the rest of the league... heh...

I'd rather have a team stacked with first liners at every position than purposely limit the caliber player we look for to fill voids.

[Doggy 130]

Don't get blinded by the big hits and big goals. Jay is significantly better defensively. He's been stuck in a hockey abyss for his entire career thus far, but Bouwmeester is elite. He had an off year this past season, but if given a choice between the two it's Jay without a hint of doubt in my mind.

You don't need to convince me about Bouwmeester, okay? I know how good he is.

You're underestimating Phaneuf. I'd take him first any day. He is also elite and unquestionably the better of the two. Would you take Yzerman over Gretzky too?

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'd rather have a team stacked with first liners at every position than purposely limit the caliber player we look for to fill voids.

I would agree if there wasn't a salary cap.

[eva unit zero 271]

I'd rather have a team stacked with first liners at every position than purposely limit the caliber player we look for to fill voids.

I'd rather have the six best defensemen in the NHL playing in front of the best two goalies and behind the top 12 forwards; and I want it for a salary that is at the cap floor.

But since that isn't going to happen, how about we get a guy capable of playing as the #4 who will accept what we can afford to pay him for that role?

[norrisnick 1]

You don't need to convince me about Bouwmeester, okay? I know how good he is.

You're underestimating Phaneuf. I'd take him first any day. He is also elite and unquestionably the better of the two. Would you take Yzerman over Gretzky too?

I'd take Yzerman over Messier.

[Doggy 130]

I'd take Yzerman over Messier.

Yeah me too.

[Majsheppard 203]

Jay is the best Dman in possibly all of the Eastern conference now. No joke.

He has wheels and is solid in every aspect of his game.

If he becomes available, and I still think he is stuck in Florida for a bit longer, I would give him top two defensemen money.

I think he would be like adding another Kronner type to the fold.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Well apprently Mr. Bouwmeester is not happy in Flordia according to thefourthperiod.com. WHat do you think of him? I think he would be a great pick up to put with Kronner if Stewie leaves. His price is at 2.25 Mil. And again he is young. Give him 3 Mill. Thoughts?

3 MILLION? You HONESTLY think he'll sign for 3 million?

He's not signing for anything less than $6 millon and that's what this superstar deserves.

[akustyk 84]

You're underestimating Phaneuf. I'd take him first any day. He is also elite and unquestionably the better of the two. Would you take Yzerman over Gretzky too?

Phaneuf is a tough story. he's getting lot of exposure because he plays in Canada

and is known for hits. but other than that he used to be pretty unremarkable.

I watched him last year against the Wings and he was simply a non factor. yes

he scored a goal (1 or 2 if I recall correctly), delivered a couple of hits but when

it came to defense and making smart plays to better up the flow of his team's

game - Phaneuf was nonexistent.

this playoffs he looked much more improved to me and it really is closer to what

I'd expect from such a high draft pick and a guy touted to become Norris winner.

if this is about to continue and Phaneuf finally got it right - he's an absolutely top

defenseman in my book. not Nick Norris but right in top 5.

but if this was just a fluke... he's way behind in the ranks. I mean - in objective

terms when you look at what he really is and not what Canadian fans call him,

Phabeuf is just a strong offensive D-man with quite too frequent defensive

lapses. as such he's good for Eastern Conference but not for real playoff

contenders in the West who build on reliable defensemen.

my €0.02

Edited June 28, 2008 by akustyk

[Doggy 130]

Phaneuf is a tough story. he's getting lot of exposure because he plays in Canada

and is known for hits. but other than that he used to be pretty unremarkable.

I watched him last year against the Wings and he was simply a non factor. yes

he scored a goal (1 or 2 if I recall correctly), delivered a couple of hits but when

it came to defense and making smart plays to better up the flow of his team's

game - Phaneuf was nonexistent.

this playoffs he looked much more improved to me and it really is closer to what

I'd expect from such a high draft pick and a guy touted to become Norris winner.

if this is about to continue and Phaneuf finally got it right - he's an absolutely top

defenseman in my book. not Nick Norris but right in top 5.

but if this was just a fluke... he's way behind in the ranks. I mean - in objective

terms when you look at what he really is and not what Canadian fans call him,

Phabeuf is just a strong offensive D-man with quite too frequent defensive

lapses. as such he's good for Eastern Conference but not for real playoff

contenders in the West who build on reliable defensemen.

my €0.02

Why are you talking about flukes? He was nominated for the Norris trophy and is 22 years old. He has steadily improved each year which is impressive considering how awesome he was as a rookie. Definitely a season deserving of a Calder trophy but he was unlucky enough to debut with Crosby and Ovechkin. Nicklas Lidstrom wasn't as good as Phaneuf at 22.

Where is all this unreliable stuff coming from? Are we talking about different players? Everyone makes mistakes that can lead to goals. Even Lidstrom, although I've never seen a player that's ever done it as rarely as he. Quite too frequent defensive lapses? What??

While I do respect your opinion, this could be the worst assessment of a player I've ever read.

[akustyk 84]

Why are you talking about flukes? He was nominated for the Norris trophy and is 22 years old. He has steadily improved each year which is impressive considering how awesome he was as a rookie. Definitely a season deserving of a Calder trophy but he was unlucky enough to debut with Crosby and Ovechkin. Nicklas Lidstrom wasn't as good as Phaneuf at 22.

Where is all this unreliable stuff coming from? Are we talking about different players? Everyone makes mistakes that can lead to goals. Even Lidstrom, although I've never seen a player that's ever done it as rarely as he. Quite too frequent defensive lapses? What??

While I do respect your opinion, this could be the worst assessment of a player I've ever read.

I'm not talking about fluke. I'm talking about him not being steady defenseman in his own end

and not being sound on defensive game. I like his improvement this season and it looks like

he's finally getting it done but prior to that he was often quite average in defensive aspect

of the game. yes, I understand the importance of good hit but the primary thing I expect of

top-tier defenseman is to be sound behind his blue line. especially in playoffs. last playoffs

against Wings he was brutal - often inefficient and for most part pretty invisible.

so, just to sum it up: yes, I see he has tools to be great but I don't think he's entirely there.

he's great at his 22, no doubt. but he is not yet what he is hyped to be. he might very well

achieve it soon, though.