Orpik Rejects Pens Offer

[eva unit zero 271]

I actually heard Orpik was only looking for 3.5M, as opposed to the 4-4.5M some people were projecting he'd ask, and he also wants to return to Philly.

Like it or not, 3M will actually end up being a decent price for a guy who can fill a #4 spot. That said, I personally dont think hes worth more than about 2.25. But the market dictates otherwise. Hamrlik has been great with the Habs, but it was a great year for him. Career-wise hes more or less a #3, but hes being paid 5M+.

Roman Hamrlik has been a #1 defenseman for most of his career. He has played in three All-Star games, and his top two offensive performances are not included in those years. He has been one of the better two-way performers among blueliners for most of his career.

Hamrlik offensively with the Habs has performed FAR below his career average. This is due primarily to the fact that Montreal is the first team he has played for that did not immediately implement him as their top offensive defenseman; Montreal has Andrei Markov for that role.

Hamrlik has been used as a secondary scorer among defensemen and has been used in a much more defensive role as Montreal's other top defensemen are significantly less capable in that regard. As far as value is concerned, Hamrlik is a better value for the dollar than Chris Pronger, Mathieu Schneider, Sheldon Souray, Rob Blake, Ed Jovanovski, Bryan McCabe, and many other defensemen making similar money or more money.

[thedisappearer 291]

this Philly kid who was suspended before the season even started...

now that's another story...

I'm not gonna defend Downie, but being in the car when your father is killed in a car accident...

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Orpiks value in the old NHL, would be around 1.85 or something like that. Big physical defenceman that cant score (Ala Hatcher) shouldnt be getting 4 million dollars. Orpik is a better skater then Hatcher, but Hatcher for cheap is a better deal then Orpik for big money. I cant wait to see who overpays for this guy.

[Zymz 0]

Funny thing about Orpik...

They all talk about the legendary "4 hit" shift in the SCF, but if I remember correctly, all those hits came because Orpik was consistently beat to the puck, and it took him 4 tries to separate it from the Wings. Not to mention at least 2 or 3 of those hits were in the corner and against the boards, where it's much easier to line a player up. Orpik was solid at times, and he's a hell of a warrior, but he's no 3M dollar man...

[edicius 3,269]

Therrien drives another player away from the Pens. I love it.

[Opie 308]

Do the pens try to save the team and fire the coach?

[Cern 0]

Wow. Next season's Pens are looking more and more like 3 star players with 20-odd AHLers filling the gaps.

Enjoy being the Calgary Flames of the East, guys!

[Kp-Wings 3]

I can remember the good old days when a mediocre player like Orpik would only get about 1-1.5 million a season. And these were the days without a salary cap, surprisingly.

The business sense in the NHL has gotten worse and worse every year. If Orpik really get's 3-4 million a season, I'll officially lose all faith in ever being able to sign a player to a reasonable contract again.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Roman Hamrlik has been a #1 defenseman for most of his career. He has played in three All-Star games, and his top two offensive performances are not included in those years. He has been one of the better two-way performers among blueliners for most of his career.

Hamrlik offensively with the Habs has performed FAR below his career average. This is due primarily to the fact that Montreal is the first team he has played for that did not immediately implement him as their top offensive defenseman; Montreal has Andrei Markov for that role.

Hamrlik has been used as a secondary scorer among defensemen and has been used in a much more defensive role as Montreal's other top defensemen are significantly less capable in that regard. As far as value is concerned, Hamrlik is a better value for the dollar than Chris Pronger, Mathieu Schneider, Sheldon Souray, Rob Blake, Ed Jovanovski, Bryan McCabe, and many other defensemen making similar money or more money.

07-08: 1) Markov 2) Hamrlik

06-07: 1) Phaneuf 2) Hamrlik

05-06: 1) Regher 2) Leopold 3) Hamrlik

03-04: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

02-03: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

01-02: 1) Aucoin 2) Jonsson 3) Hamrlik

00-01: 1) Hamrlik

Hamrlik is a "career #1" just as Shea Weber "wouldn't crack the Wings lineup," right Eva?

So yeah. As I was saying, Orpik at 3-3.5M is actually a decent rate. Given that Hamrlik hadn't been a #1 in 6 years and was a #2/3 Dman when he was signed by Montreal to 5.5M per year, yeah a little over 3M is likely for a Dman like Orpik. Unless of course, players are signed to contracts based on the type of player they were 6 years ago..

[Dabura 12,232]

Hamrlik is a "career #1" just as Shea Weber "wouldn't crack the Wings lineup," right Eva?

I may be mistaken, but I think this is a lousy comparison given eva's point -- which seems to be that Hamrlik has been under-utilized in Montreal. Which I happen to agree with.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I may be mistaken, but I think this is a lousy comparison given eva's point -- which seems to be that Hamrlik has been under-utilized in Montreal. Which I happen to agree with.

Jeez. Some of you folks on here just love to pick fights about points Im not even making.

My point was that for a guy that was a 2/3 on his last contract (and the past 6 years), he signed a new contract at 5.5M. Which suggests that a 2/3 could make in the range of 4-6M. Which is why now, with a risen cap, and the continuation of inflated salaries with defenseman, seeing a guy like Orpik getting 3-4M is actually market price, and the lower end of 3-4M would actually be a good price, considering this market. Even though it disgusts me to say that Orpik at 3M is a good price.

Evas statement was that Hamrlik is a #1 and he got paid like a #1. So I pointed out that, no, he is not a #1, but was still paid very good money last year. If you want to use Schneider as an example also, go for it. Schneider was a #2 with the Wings and he got paid (at the time) what was a #1s salary (but not necessarily a franchise Dmans salary a la Pronger, Nieds, Lidstrom). Schneiders contract was slightly more, but it was also shorter-term and he was coming off a much better year offensively in comparison to Hammer.

And you think Hamrlik was under-utlized? In what way? As in...he should have been #1 on the Habs instead of Markov? See thats strange. Because 1) Markov is the better Dman. And a very underrated guy around the league at that and 2) I think I'd take the Jack Adams runner-ups game tactics as opposed to anyones on this board. Including my own.

EDIT: Also, Hamrlik actually had a great year with the Habs. Not statistically on his terms (although he did have the same point total as a #2 in Montreal as he did as a #3 in Calgary), but defensively, yes, it was probably one of his best years.

Edited June 28, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Dabura 12,232]

I was only commenting on your Hamrlik-Weber-by-way-of-eva comparison.

Hamrlik is under-utilized in the sense that he has proven he can be a first-pairing guy. I'm not questioning his placement, I'm simply saying what he's doing right now isn't his bread and butter, at least historically.

Weber, again, is a different story altogether.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I was only commenting on your Hamrlik-Weber-by-way-of-eva comparison.

Hamrlik is under-utilized in the sense that he has proven he can be a first-pairing guy. I'm not questioning his placement, I'm simply saying what he's doing right now isn't his bread and butter, at least historically.

Weber, again, is a different story altogether.

And thats my point. That line in my initial post was probably the least relevant to the discussion, yet you pluck it out to start an irrelevant argument. Thanks for that.

And you could turn around the fact that he "wasn't being used as he historically has" as a case for his having fallen down the depth chart in arguably his strongest area of the game. Which is interesting, because he truly was stellar defensively this year if you caught any games (which is another reason why I dont see the contract as overpaying anymore. Although it was at the time, along with others..)

The funny thing is, Hamrlik is being regarded here as a #1, at least in terms of offensive talent, yet why was he not used as such in his role with Montreal? Its even more interesting when you consider that Markov-Streit were the first unit on the points and were thus the QBs for what ended up being the #1 PP in the entire NHL this year.

Again, this argument is getting way out of hand. My point, again, was simply that Hamrlik got a lot of money for being a #2/3 defenseman - as he was on his last contract with Calgary - and one that didn't even hit the 40pt mark in those two years.

Edited June 28, 2008 by YoungGuns1340

[Reds4Life 51]

07-08: 1) Markov 2) Hamrlik

06-07: 1) Phaneuf 2) Hamrlik

05-06: 1) Regher 2) Leopold 3) Hamrlik

03-04: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

02-03: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

01-02: 1) Aucoin 2) Jonsson 3) Hamrlik

00-01: 1) Hamrlik

Hamrlik is a "career #1" just as Shea Weber "wouldn't crack the Wings lineup," right Eva?

haha

06 Phaneuf better than Hamrlik? LOL

Aucoin, Leopold? Just wow..

Hamrlik is pretty good defenseman, he would be our 2nd or at least 3rd best defenseman.

So yeah. As I was saying, Orpik at 3-3.5M is actually a decent rate. Given that Hamrlik hadn't been a #1 in 6 years and was a #2/3 Dman when he was signed by Montreal to 5.5M per year, yeah a little over 3M is likely for a Dman like Orpik. Unless of course, players are signed to contracts based on the type of player they were 6 years ago..

Orpik for 3.5 million is brutal deal, he was solid in finals, but he is below average defenseman. He has no offensive game, and usually sucks defensively. Yeah, give him 3.5 million for one good shift he had in the finals.

Orpik would not even crack our lineup.

Edited June 28, 2008 by Reds4Life

[2probert4 8]

Chris Simon?

Don't forget Tootoo...

[akustyk 84]

Don't forget Tootoo...

Tootoo has been Nashville's second best player (behind Ellis) in Round 1 when

they faced us. he's not been committing dumb penalties and played with a lot

of energy.

I too can't stand this spoiled brat and would like to see someone give him what

is due. but you have to give him the credit of being effective and playing with a lot

of energy when the team needs him.

EDIT: and no, I don't think he's dumb. he's reckless and way to optimistic about

his future (he'll find his Scott Stevens some day - I hope at least) but he's not

dumb.

Edited June 28, 2008 by akustyk

[Dabura 12,232]

That line in my initial post was probably the least relevant to the discussion, yet you pluck it out to start an irrelevant argument. Thanks for that.

And thanks for bringing up that irrelevant line of argumentation in the first place. You made a weak-ass jab at eva, I called you out on it. Don't go playing the "Dude, it doesn't even matter" card on this one. If it doesn't matter, don't bring it up in the first place.

The funny thing is, Hamrlik is being regarded here as a #1, at least in terms of offensive talent, yet why was he not used as such in his role with Montreal?

Because it wouldn't make sense. Talk about making arguments out of nothing -- I'm not saying Hamrlik ttly got shafted!1 I was simply saying Hamrlik has, historically, been a first-pairing guy and that not playing first-pairing minutes in Montreal is not playing to his full strengths -- although it's understandable why he's not getting those minutes there. Really, if anything, his slightly more defensively defensive duty (at least relative to the role he's historically enjoyed) with the Habs has made him a more well-rounded player.

So, you saying, "ZOMG eva you're saying Hamrlik is a career #1 but Weber would struggle to make the Wings' roster?! lamo" is dumb.

Now, if you want me to be relevant: Orpik is garbage. If you think 3.5 would be decent money for him...well, you're wrong.

[Majsheppard 203]

Oprik was the best defensemen for the Pens.

[Dabura 12,232]

And his "best" shift of the postseason (4 hits) would have been Kronwall's worst (4 hits on the same shift = Caught out of position 4 times).

The guy played well in the finals, no doubt. But that's about as good as you'll ever see him play. 3.5? No chance.

[eva unit zero 271]

07-08: 1) Markov 2) Hamrlik

06-07: 1) Phaneuf 2) Hamrlik

05-06: 1) Regher 2) Leopold 3) Hamrlik

03-04: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

02-03: 1) Aucoin 2) Hamrlik

01-02: 1) Aucoin 2) Jonsson 3) Hamrlik

00-01: 1) Hamrlik

Hamrlik is a "career #1" just as Shea Weber "wouldn't crack the Wings lineup," right Eva?

So yeah. As I was saying, Orpik at 3-3.5M is actually a decent rate. Given that Hamrlik hadn't been a #1 in 6 years and was a #2/3 Dman when he was signed by Montreal to 5.5M per year, yeah a little over 3M is likely for a Dman like Orpik. Unless of course, players are signed to contracts based on the type of player they were 6 years ago..

Ok. If Hamrlik isn't a career #1...then neither are Zdeno Chara, Scott Niedermayer, Chris Pronger, Brian Rafalski, or Larry Murphy. Because after all, those guys were all the second or third best defensemen on their teams for many seasons.

Or maybe, when I said 'Career #1' I meant he is a guy who is in the top 30 (or 24, or 26, or however many teams there are at the time) defensemen in the NHL most seasons of his career. The fact that he was repeatedly selected to the All-Star game underscores this point, as it indicates his status as one of the better defensemen in the NHL.

And btw...if Weber is the 5th best defenseman Nashville had this season, as his playing time indicates....then he would definitely have a hard time making the Wings' roster. Think about it. Would you take Greg DeVries over all of Andreas Lilja/Chris Chelios/Brett Lebda? If your answer is anything other than a resounding yes, then you agree with me; because Trotz played DeVries more than Weber this year, and unless you think DeVries is CONSIDERABLY better than the Wings' third pairing, Weber would have had his hands full based on the fact that Weber was behind DeVries on the depth chart, and would therefore have struggled to make the Wings' top-6.

It is not a claim that Weber will never be great; simply that he isn't great right now. He is, however, overrated. Proof of that is available in the fact that Weber, with one 5th place vote, was the only Predator to be mentioned in Norris balloting; despite the fact that his playing time ranks him as Nashville's #5 and not the NHL's #5.

[SnipeShow 0]

Wow. Next season's Pens are looking more and more like 3 star players with 20-odd AHLers filling the gaps.

Enjoy being the Calgary Flames of the East, guys!

They caught TB Lightning syndrome?

[SnipeShow 0]

Wow. Next season's Pens are looking more and more like 3 star players with 20-odd AHLers filling the gaps.

Enjoy being the Calgary Flames of the East, guys!

They caught TB Lightning syndrome?

[Nev 1,085]

No professional hockey player is dumb, that's why they're professionals.

My wife used to go out with a professional hockey player. He was as stupid as a plank of wood.