stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I agree that Lidstrom is easily the best of his era, whatever that means. How many Europeans could have actually played in the NHL during Orr's time? Goalies aren't exponentially better, that I'd argue ... their equipment is better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Can we all agree that Oasis is the greatest band in the world? Can we not vote on this??? (who gets this reference?) If the Red Wing players were to vote, wouldn't it be a tie between Nickleback and Abba? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Can we all agree that Oasis is the greatest band in the world? Can we not vote on this??? (who gets this reference?) Either Pearl Jam or STP now that they're back together. Yeah, they're not writing many new songs that are great, but they still have way more good songs than Oasis to play at live shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 How can a hockey forum not have a beer toasting emoticon? Well, I'm on holidays and drunk as a skunk so here's to you all. Cheers everyone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Either Pearl Jam or STP now that they're back together. Yeah, they're not writing many new songs that are great, but they still have way more good songs than Oasis to play at live shows. Pearl Jam? Now you're my best buddy. Debate over, Lidstrom wins in 2008-2009, lock the thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I agree that Lidstrom is easily the best of his era, whatever that means. How many Europeans could have actually played in the NHL during Orr's time? Goalies aren't exponentially better, that I'd argue ... their equipment is better. Goaltending coaches didn't exist until the mid 1990s. Goaltenders outside of the truly gifted were generally pretty terrible before that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awingsincebirth 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 How can a hockey forum not have a beer toasting emoticon? THis one is for you, my man :beerbuddy: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings_Dynasty 267 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Can we all agree that Oasis is the greatest band in the world? Can we not vote on this??? (who gets this reference?) I guess no one got the reference. SNL skit with the British Parliament arguing back and forth and Will Ferrell insisting on a vote to decide that Oasis is the greatest band in the world. I meant to derail the threads back-and-forthness with a comedic cultural reference, but I guessed I reached too far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) Goaltending coaches didn't exist until the mid 1990s. Goaltenders outside of the truly gifted were generally pretty terrible before that. But "defenseman coaches" did exist? The goaltenders outside of the "truly gifted" didn't play in the NHL, of course, they became posters on internet message boards and sold insurance. All players in the NHL were truly gifted at some point, or at least considered truly gifted or they'd never have gotten to the NHL in the first place. Edited July 8, 2008 by stillwater Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Goaltending coaches didn't exist until the mid 1990s. Goaltenders outside of the truly gifted were generally pretty terrible before that. You need to go back in to the 1984'ish season. Francois Allaire coached Roy when he won his cup with Montreal and even before that. Anyways, if Lids has any season like this year, I see no reason as to why he cannot win another. I'm pulling for him to take 3 more Norris trophies before he retires, just to supplant Orr. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 THis one is for you, my man :beerbuddy: To the Detroit Red Wings, the GREATEST TEAM ON EARTH, and to Hockeytown, the GREATEST FANS ON EARTH!!! Beer toasty guys all around on me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeeRYCE 2 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Winner: Lidstrom Runner-ups: Phaneuf and Zubov Wild card: Mike Green Zubov was plagued by injuries last season, but will bounce back this coming season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holmstrom96Screens 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 (edited) If Nick wins 10 Norris trophies he still won't be as good as Bobby Orr. Bobby Orr could win a game all by himself, and could do anything he wanted to do out there on the ice at will. He was physically and mentally way better than anyone else. Lidstrom is great, but he can't win a game all by himself the way Orr could, and can't just embarass people out there the way Orr could. The man was a God and a phenom, the likes of which the game will never see again. With that said, I can see Nick passing Harvey or tying him in Norrises, cementing him in my opinion as the 2nd best ever. However, number 1 is reserved. Also, I think Phaneuf will be the toughest competition, because he's a scoring machine. Likewise, look for Pronger to be a candidate again after having a year off in the Norris balloting. I couldnt agree more on the bobby orr comment here...Now obviously Im not old enought o remember Bobby Orr. But my father whos a huge hockey fan, used to tell all kinds of stories about Orr back in the day....He was a two way defenceman....could play D but could also bring the puck all the way up the ice ands score by himself. something Liddy cant really do, liddy is more of a defensive defenceman. Not only that....I know Orr was really the very first defenceman really invented the idea of the D man carrying the puck all the way up the ice to score like a forward. Orr based on facts - cant argue with the 8 norrises or his two way style or being really the first one to play such a style - is probably the best D man ever in nhl history. Oh right. Who do I think will win the norris next year? I'll say Lidström. That and not to listen to my friend who said that Markov will win it next year. ^^ Edited July 8, 2008 by Holmstrom96Screens Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I'd imagine Lids will win it again this season, barring injury **knock on wood** Hard to say who will be the runner ups really. If it wasn't for the fact Brent Burns plays for Minnesota, I'd say he'd give Lids a run for it. I couldn't get over how good he was in the World Championships this year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doggy 130 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Winner: Lidstrom Runner-ups: Phaneuf and Zubov Wild card: Mike Green Zubov was plagued by injuries last season, but will bounce back this coming season. Yeah maybe if he plays some D this season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I couldnt agree more on the bobby orr comment here...Now obviously Im not old enought o remember Bobby Orr. But my father whos a huge hockey fan, used to tell all kinds of stories about Orr back in the day....He was a two way defenceman....could play D but could also bring the puck all the way up the ice ands score by himself. something Liddy cant really do, liddy is more of a defensive defenceman. Not only that....I know Orr was really the very first defenceman really invented the idea of the D man carrying the puck all the way up the ice to score like a forward. Orr based on facts - cant argue with the 8 norrises or his two way style or being really the first one to play such a style - is probably the best D man ever in nhl history. Oh right. Who do I think will win the norris next year? I'll say Lidström. That and not to listen to my friend who said that Markov will win it next year. ^^ On the contrary, Nick has a ton of offenseive upside, its just hes more Andre Markov than Brian Campbell/Nidermayer. Lidstrom is a good skater, but not good enough to single handedly lead a rush the way those defensemen are capable, but he is by far one of the most talented passers and has a strong point shot. If i had to choose Orr or lidstrom on the pp to score lidstrom all the way. Remember how well Paul Coffey did on the powerplay with us? Oh yeah he sucked cause he had poor passing skills while playing the pont. orrs skills were in joining and leading the rush, meanwhile Lidstrom is more of a postional player Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 You need to go back in to the 1984'ish season. Francois Allaire coached Roy when he won his cup with Montreal and even before that. Anyways, if Lids has any season like this year, I see no reason as to why he cannot win another. I'm pulling for him to take 3 more Norris trophies before he retires, just to supplant Orr. I meant goaltending coaches outside of the pro ranks. If you ask goaltenders who came into the league in the 80s and early 90s, the way it worked was you just did what you could to stop the puck. If you were good enough naturally to get a shot in the NHL, your NHL team's goalie coach (if they had one) would work with you and improve your game. Now, goaltending coaches are common in junior leagues and youth teams, making for a much more talented crop of goaltenders consistently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I hope it gets noticed that Lidstrom missed an entire year of hockey in his prime due to the lockout... any chance he would have another Norris right now? Orr is untouchable, he really is. Only Howe and Gretzky have more Harts than Shore. Lidstrom could retire ahead of Harvey and Bourque, and could arguably be ahead of Bourque right now... though I lean towards disagreeing. The mid-80's to the mid 90's was pretty fierce competition for defencemen and Bourque was the clear best. Bourque, Chelios, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, and Stevens were all in their primes and all are first ballot HOF guys. Lidstrom's competition is not near that level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LIDSTROM-YZERMAN4PRESIDENT 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Lidstrom has definetly got it in the bag, no one can touch him. The closest guy to ever get to him was Leetch and he is retired now. The runner up will be pheneuf and below that no one matters. Lidstrom=hoss cat 4 life Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ilmickeyli 40 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Mike Jones Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowingsgo 3 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I'd personally like to see Nick raise Lord Stanley's Cup again next Spring. The Norris is icing on the cake. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukownzU13 1 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Orr was a boss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slave 31 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 Lidstrom runners up rafalski kronwall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RockyMountainWingGal 108 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 I hope it gets noticed that Lidstrom missed an entire year of hockey in his prime due to the lockout... any chance he would have another Norris right now? Orr is untouchable, he really is. Only Howe and Gretzky have more Harts than Shore. Lidstrom could retire ahead of Harvey and Bourque, and could arguably be ahead of Bourque right now... though I lean towards disagreeing. The mid-80's to the mid 90's was pretty fierce competition for defencemen and Bourque was the clear best. Bourque, Chelios, Coffey, MacInnis, Leetch, and Stevens were all in their primes and all are first ballot HOF guys. Lidstrom's competition is not near that level. I am having this very argument on the Avs boards right now - yes horrible place for this! The guy only played for their team for about 14-15 months - but yet his jersey hangs in the Can and their fans practically consider him a career Av. Bourque has more points - but also played 360 more games. Lids has way more hardware. Bourque had to hitch a ride with the Avs to get his one Cup - albeit he played an integral role in the run. RB has 5 Norris trophies. Nick has 4 Cups - all of which he played an integral role in (played vs top lines in 97-98, was the MVP in 02 over a handful of MVP -type HOFers, captained one this year). Now is ahead of RB with 6 Norris statues. I really hope he wins more so we can put the Lidstrom/Bourque argument to rest. For me - it's already a done deal after this past season anyways. He could win 10 Norris and 6 Cups and the &*^%$ Avs fans will still pick RB - hell they probably pick RB over Orr too..... (if they know who he is ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Holmstrom96Screens 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2008 On the contrary, Nick has a ton of offenseive upside, its just hes more Andre Markov than Brian Campbell/Nidermayer. Lidstrom is a good skater, but not good enough to single handedly lead a rush the way those defensemen are capable, but he is by far one of the most talented passers and has a strong point shot. If i had to choose Orr or lidstrom on the pp to score lidstrom all the way. Remember how well Paul Coffey did on the powerplay with us? Oh yeah he sucked cause he had poor passing skills while playing the pont. orrs skills were in joining and leading the rush, meanwhile Lidstrom is more of a postional player Oh Liddy can take the puck up the ice and score, no doubt. I know he does that. not saying he doesnt. I cant compare Liddy and orr as I wasnt able to see orr play. Im not old enough to remember him. Im just going by what my father told me with his bobby orr stories. Paul Coffey was another 1 - rushing end to end with the puck - he was great. I do remember him playing he was awesome xD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
